Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, sathornlover said:

 

 

I do agree with his assessment of Toyota and other manufacturers future.  without trade barriers, China is going to dominate the future automobile industry.

 

It's a thorny one, do you prevent European and American buyers from buying cheap Chinese EV's and slow down the whole EV changeover process or do you let them have free reign customers will be happy but your local manufacturers will bite the dust.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I do agree with his assessment of Toyota and other manufacturers future.  without trade barriers, China is going to dominate the future automobile industry.

 

It's a thorny one, do you prevent European and American buyers from buying cheap Chinese EV's and slow down the whole EV changeover process or do you let them have free reign customers will be happy but your local manufacturers will bite the dust.

They're relatively cheap, even after the duties are paid in the US. 

 

I can't speak to Europe, but if they are not selling them in the US is because they have not satisfied the safety and environmental requirements, testing and or certifications. 

 

To be clear, I am not saying they do not meet the standards, but it takes a lot of time, effort, money and practice to get through testing. 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, sathornlover said:

 

Are you “Neil the watcher from Thailand” ? 

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

They're relatively cheap, even after the duties are paid in the US. 

 

 The tariffs for imported  Chinese EVs are 27.5% , to that combine that they do not qualify for the $7500 tax credit and you are looking at a huge premium 

I cant believe Chinese EVS have such huge  profit margins that they can afford an over 30% haircut.  

Buy they might be able to circumvent this issue by making then in Mexico and bringing  them in via Nafta . (  BYD, Chery, and MG)

plus there seems to be some cooperation between BYD and Tesla, so there is another variable to look out for. The next couple of years would be interesting to watch 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

 The tariffs for imported  Chinese EVs are 27.5% , to that combine that they do not qualify for the $7500 tax credit and you are looking at a huge premium 

I cant believe Chinese EVS have such huge  profit margins that they can afford an over 30% haircut.  

Buy they might be able to circumvent this issue by making then in Mexico and bringing  them in via Nafta . (  BYD, Chery, and MG)

plus there seems to be some cooperation between BYD and Tesla, so there is another variable to look out for. The next couple of years would be interesting to watch 

People here have claimed they have great margins on what they are selling here. 

 

They do not have to manufacture them North America to avoid duties and to get on the tax-credit list, they only have to complete the final assembly. So, they could ship them semi-knocked-down, and assemble them there in low-cost facilities with little labor.

 

So, I'll stick by what I said: I can't speak to Europe, but if they are not selling them in the US is because they have not satisfied the safety and environmental requirements, testing and or certifications. 

 

To be clear, I am not saying they do not meet the standards, but it takes a lot of time, effort, money and practice to get through testing. 

[macahoom]

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

"when I was in Thailand I saw 12 Atto 3’s in a row !! “ ……. did you ….. did you really Sam ??

 

I think he's confused.

 

I think he was in London and 12 taxis drove down Oxford Street in a row.

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, macahoom said:

 

I think he's confused.

 

I think he was in London and 12 taxis drove down Oxford Street in a row.

Or maybe he was at the docks watching them come off the ship ??

 

Either way he lets himself down with blatant rubbish like this !!

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

They do not have to manufacture them North America to avoid duties and to get on the tax-credit list, they only have to complete the final assembly.

Regardless of what you call it, it happens in Mexico. 

I know that there are certain percentage of part manufactured in North america to qualify for NAFTA  . and a percentage of steel and aluminum, In addition there are requirements concerning Batteries and rare earths  used in them  to qualify for tax credits.  I don't remember the specifics, but I remember reading an article about that. 

But regardless of all that , the three Chinese EV companies I mentioned are stopping for     manufacturing/ assembly  space in Mexico to circumvent tarifs. I am sure they know what the specifics are and would not be investing if they did not think they could qualify. 

I think the Vietnamese EV company Vin fast is setting up shop in North Carolina  

 

 

An additional point that might apply . I listen to a market analysis , and it was mentioned that the per unit EV production in China has not really increased, but the demand in China is decreasing as many people who would have bought an EV have already bought one. Consequently in order to grow Chinese EV companies are dumping in Europe and are eying North America .

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Regardless of what you call it, it happens in Mexico. 

Or in the US

22 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I know that there are certain percentage of part manufactured in North america to qualify for NAFTA  . and a percentage of steel and aluminum, In addition there are requirements concerning Batteries and rare earths  used in them  to qualify for tax credits.

If they are final assembled in the US NAFTA is a non-issue. 

22 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

I don't remember the specifics, but I remember reading an article about that. 

But regardless of all that , the three Chinese EV companies I mentioned are stopping for     manufacturing/ assembly  space in Mexico to circumvent tarifs. I am sure they know what the specifics are and would not be investing if they did not think they could qualify. 

I think the Vietnamese EV company Vin fast is setting up shop in North Carolina  

Apparently the Vietnamese are smarter than the Chinese if the Chinese are looking for space in Mexico, unless for the Mexican market. 

 

22 minutes ago, sirineou said:

An additional point that might apply . I listen to a market analysis , and it was mentioned that the per unit EV production in China has not really increased, but the demand in China is decreasing as many people who would have bought an EV have already bought one. Consequently in order to grow Chinese EV companies are dumping in Europe and are eying North America .

One would think that everyone that has purchased an ICEV would have already bought one as well. 

 

I do not doubt the Chinese will enter the market, I have only said that it was not the import duty and or the tax credit is keeping them out. Your post seems to support that. 

 

Credits for new clean vehicles purchased in 2023 or after | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

[sirineou]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Apparently the Vietnamese are smarter than the Chinese if the Chinese are looking for space in Mexico, unless for the Mexican market. 

The would be, if the only consideration was US sales, unfortunately there are labor , environmental etc issues .

 

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

One would think that everyone that has purchased an ICEV would have already bought one as well. 

Potato peelers too, but we are talking about EVs 

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The would be, if the only consideration was US sales, unfortunately there are labor , environmental etc issues .

Yes, it is much easier to desecrate the environment and exploit labor in Mexico, but for assembly, environmental is really not much of a concern. 

 

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Potato peelers too, but we are talking about EVs 

I'm sorry, are manufacturers cutting production of potato peelers? 

 

 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm sorry, are manufacturers cutting production of potato peelers? 

Neither are the cutting production for EVs they are simply increasing export markets to make up for the falling demand in China 

Edited February 6 by sirineou

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Neither are the cutting production for EVs they are simply increasing export markets to make up for the falling demand in China 

So, they have not cut production with the falling sales, so the cars are all just piling up on the docks hoping to be exported once their export markets are increased, correct? 

 

When I was working, we often adjusted production weekly. Most orders shipped within three days, and virtually every nonspecial order shipped within ten days. 

 

Our auto-seat plant in Thailand received orders every day at 15:00 and everything was shipped before 15:00 next day. We were making seats that would ship and go into cars being built the same day. 

 

 

 

[sirineou]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, they have not cut production with the falling sales, so the cars are all just piling up on the docks hoping to be exported once their export markets are increased, correct? 

That would not be correct. 

 This is economics 101

With any new product, there is the initial  surge in demand. As the market become saturated demand declines,. There are two options, 

One is reduce demand. but with that there are the legacy costs of the initial means of production. 

so the other option is to create new markets, 

You can either look at markets that are not yet saturated such as EU , USA etc,

or you can innovate to develop turn over,such as introducing new functions, (iPhone 10, 11, 14 etc) 

These are recognised business models   and are not debated by anyone I know

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

When I was working, we often adjusted production weekly. Most orders shipped within three days, and virtually every nonspecial order shipped within ten days. 

you are talking micro vs Macro , you do the things you mentioned, with in the constrains of your business model and environment.  The EV environment now is very competitive and the business model is not so much profit as it is to separate the boys from the men and develop market share. 

Not the first time such thing happens. 

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Our auto-seat plant in Thailand received orders every day at 15:00 and everything was shipped before 15:00 next day. We were making seats that would ship and go into cars being built the same day. 

Jit has been the automotive  industry standard  for a few decades now,. That's  a logistics  issue and  rather than market development and maintenance. 

I had a similar logistics issue in my industry. but mostly because of storage space constrains and crane time. 

[motdaeng]

it would be nice if you could stay on the topic   "Electric Vehicles in Thailand" ...

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, motdaeng said:

it would be nice if you could stay on the topic   "Electric Vehicles in Thailand" ...

 

You are correct.

Apologies

[Andrew Dwyer]

Back on topic !

 

Dolphin owners !!

Who knew there’s a “ secret “ hook in the front passenger footwell ??

 

 

 

 

 

For up to 3 kg of your favourite sticky rice and pork satay perhaps ?

 

Seems a strange location, wonder what the recommended use for this is ?? or does the Atto 3 and Seal have similar ??
 

Edited February 6 by Andrew Dwyer
Punkchewasian and spelin

[Yellowtail]

50 minutes ago, sirineou said:

That would not be correct. 

 This is economics 101

With any new product, there is the initial  surge in demand. As the market become saturated demand declines,. There are two options, 

One is reduce demand. but with that there are the legacy costs of the initial means of production. 

so the other option is to create new markets, 

You can either look at markets that are not yet saturated such as EU , USA etc,

or you can innovate to develop turn over,such as introducing new functions, (iPhone 10, 11, 14 etc) 

These are recognised business models   and are not debated by anyone I know

you are talking micro vs Macro , you do the things you mentioned, with in the constrains of your business model and environment.  The EV environment now is very competitive and the business model is not so much profit as it is to separate the boys from the men and develop market share. 

Not the first time such thing happens. 

Jit has been the automotive  industry standard  for a few decades now,. That's  a logistics  issue and  rather than market development and maintenance. 

I had a similar logistics issue in my industry. but mostly because of storage space constrains and crane time. 

So, they cut production, that's what I said. 

[sirineou]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So, they cut production, that's what I said. 

As noted by others  we are really taking this thread of topic,

 

[Yellowtail]

21 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Back on topic !

 

Dolphin owners !!

Who knew there’s a “ secret “ hook in the front passenger footwell ??

 

 

 

 

 

For up to 3 kg of your favourite sticky rice and pork satay perhaps ?

 

Seems a strange location, wonder what the recommended use for this is ?? or does the Atto 3 and Seal have similar ??
 

It may (like the Audis) accommodate an accessory od some kind. 

[Gweiloman]

34 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Back on topic !

 

Dolphin owners !!

Who knew there’s a “ secret “ hook in the front passenger footwell ??

 

 

 

 

 

For up to 3 kg of your favourite sticky rice and pork satay perhaps ?

 

Seems a strange location, wonder what the recommended use for this is ?? or does the Atto 3 and Seal have similar ??
 

My wife use it to hang the khao neow moo ping

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Back on topic !

 

Dolphin owners !!

Who knew there’s a “ secret “ hook in the front passenger footwell ??

 

 

 

 

 

Seems a strange location, wonder what the recommended use for this is ?? or does the Atto 3 and Seal have similar ??
 

 

Atto no-have.  I just looked.

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It may (like the Audis) accommodate an accessory od some kind. 

Yes, surprised no enterprising fella has designed a trash can or tissue box to clip on there.

Looks like a nifty little idea, should have put one on the door pillar as a coat hook or a couple on the back of the seats for the bored teenagers to hang their iPads or dangle the bubble tea !

[mistral53]

Who else is stoked about the Avatr 12 coming to Thailand?

 

It's a Changan/CATL/Huawei joint venture......... yes, the Changan brand that is also bringing in the Deepal S07 and L07 already on sale here, which makes it somewhat plausible. Chatter on FB makes it a given sometimes in 2024, but it makes little sense, given the very limited market size. Conversely, if price projections of around THB 2.5 Million pan out, Tesla is toast - and I will get one!  😂

 

Needless to say, this is a serous contender, apart from being breathtakingly beautiful, it is choke-full of technology, probably a given with Huawei as a partner. Another interesting detail is the warranty in China: For the first  owner, unlimited for battery and drive motors. Eat that - Tesla!

 

Just some late night EV porn for the real connoisseur. For all others, it's either PornHub or ICE's.

[motdaeng]

8 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Who else is stoked about the Avatr 12 coming to Thailand?

 

according to some thai youtube videos, the avatr 11 (suv) is set to enter the thai market this year,

while the avatr 12 might follow in 1 or 2 years.

 

i wonder if the deepal dealer-network will also be used for avatr cars. more likely it will have its

own independent service centers, possibly only in bangkok. this could be a dealbreaker for some

potential customers ...

 

https://www.avatr.com/en/11

 

 

Edited February 7 by motdaeng

[brfsa2]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:22 AM, macahoom said:

Over the past month or two, I've read great reviews for the MG4 EV. And then yesterday, I saw it was voted car of the year in the UK.

 

My three and a half year old MG ZS EV is a great car and my plan has always been to hold on to it for many years. However, passing an MG showroom this morning I thought, "What the hell! Let's test drive an MG4 and see what all the fuss is about."

 

Well, holy smokes! As wonderful as my ZS is, the MG4 blows it out of the water; renders it old hat.

 

Dare I say it, it drives and feels like it's expensive and European. Handles beautifully.

 

It's so good, I'm sorely tempted to buy one. The problem is, it's difficult to justify getting rid of my ZS. For a start, I'd get peanuts for it - no matter how good it is. 

 

I suppose I may as well test drive the BYD Atto3 while I'm at it.

@macahoom also note that the MG4 motor is at the rear, RWD, while the MG ZS EV is at the front. that makes a difference in the fun factor by a large margin for EV,  FWD EV car have many handling problems because of the very high torque on the front wheel. the ZS EV had this problem and I could hardly floor it on a straight without the car driving like a snake. You should really test drive the Tesla Model 3, if you liked the MG4. but not the Model Y. 

 

I hated the MG ZS EV that I had. sold it with 40% losses. If you still have yours, you might as well keep it 😄

[JBChiangRai]

I have the BYD Seal Performance, before that an MG4 (X) and before that another EV.

 

I love the BYD Seal, but which car would I want to hoon around a country road in?  The MG4 every time, it has a much firmer, planted suspension.

 

The Seal is faster, more comfortable, quieter, more toys but it's handling whilst good is nowhere near as confidence inspiring as the MG4, the Seal is softly sprung.

 

I would prefer the Seal every time on a long run where my passengers expect me to drive with their comfort in mind (I have great difficulty and lack the self-control to do that).

[macahoom]

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

the ZS EV had this problem and I could hardly floor it on a straight without the car driving like a snake.

 

I never had this problem with the ZS EV but, for sure, the tyres always "chirped" on full throttle from a standing start, even though the acceleration wasn't that great compared to other EVs.

 

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

hated the MG ZS EV that I had. sold it with 40% losses. If you still have yours, you might as well keep it 😄

 

Sold it back in September or October and bought a Seal Performance.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, brfsa2 said:

@macahoom also note that the MG4 motor is at the rear, RWD, while the MG ZS EV is at the front. that makes a difference in the fun factor by a large margin for EV,  FWD EV car have many handling problems because of the very high torque on the front wheel. the ZS EV had this problem and I could hardly floor it on a straight without the car driving like a snake. You should really test drive the Tesla Model 3, if you liked the MG4. but not the Model Y. 

 

I hated the MG ZS EV that I had. sold it with 40% losses. If you still have yours, you might as well keep it 😄

Have the ZS EV and never an issue as you state.  Same as @macahoom it wants to lose traction, chirp chirp, but doesn't, a good thing for performance.  Handles just fine.

 

Love it, and probably my last car, possible the wife's also, if last 20+ years, which I expect it to.

[mistral53]

Not that it matters to us at the moment in Thailand, but minus 33 deg Celsius is pretty cold for testing and EV: