Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[liddelljohn]

On 12/12/2024 at 12:20 AM, UWEB said:

And you believe ICE's get sold like hot Cake? Just have a look for the European, US American and Japanese Car Industrie, they are all in trouble.

Second hand values on ICE  vehicles are still very good   Insurance in EU and UK on ICE vehicles is half  of EVs   80% of vehicles sold are ICE  , no one actually wants EVs  most EVs are forced sales to company users due to business taxation  , very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them...But my main point is that they  have no value  as second hand vehicles  and that is worrying the banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

[josephbloggs]

21 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Second hand values on ICE  vehicles are still very good   Insurance in EU and UK on ICE vehicles is half  of EVs   80% of vehicles sold are ICE  , no one actually wants EVs  most EVs are forced sales to company users due to business taxation  , very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them...But my main point is that they  have no value  as second hand vehicles  and that is worrying the banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

Here comes another one.....

[KhunLA]

43 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Here comes another one.....

 

Just added to 'that list' ... as I really can't tolerate them any more 

 

"EVs in TH" ... UK & EU info 

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Second hand values on ICE  vehicles are still very good   Insurance in EU and UK on ICE vehicles is half  of EVs   80% of vehicles sold are ICE  , no one actually wants EVs  most EVs are forced sales to company users due to business taxation  , very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them...But my main point is that they  have no value  as second hand vehicles  and that is worrying the banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

…no one actually wants EVs…

How do you account for the thousands of EVs that were booked during the recent car expo in Bkk? Were guns stuck to the sides of their heads?

…very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them…

I wouldn’t consider myself rich and yet I have an EV and a PHEV. My EV was no more expensive than a comparable ICE. In fact, my EV is superior to a comparable ICE in almost every sense.

 

…banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

I didn’t realise financial institutions were now in the business of selling cars. In my time, they made money from loans interest…

[motdaeng]

On 12/12/2024 at 7:20 PM, Pib said:

You should be fine.  You just need to get a better idea of how much current each phase typically carries when you have everything turned on.  Use the electrical meter reading (may have to convert KW to amps) or use a clamp-on ammeter you can buy off of Lazada/Shopee pretty cheap.  Balance as/if needed based on the current draw reading.

 

what are the advantages of a fixed wall charger costing 30k-50k thb compared to a mobile charger (e.g., feyree 32a 7kw, around 6k thb)?

 

for my needs, 7kw will be enough, and i won't need the charger for on-the-go use. the feyree also comes with a user app.

so why spend significantly more on a wall box?

 

thanks for any feedback, motdaeng!

 

video is in thai ....

 

[liddelljohn]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

…no one actually wants EVs…

How do you account for the thousands of EVs that were booked during the recent car expo in Bkk? Were guns stuck to the sides of their heads?

…very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them…

I wouldn’t consider myself rich and yet I have an EV and a PHEV. My EV was no more expensive than a comparable ICE. In fact, my EV is superior to a comparable ICE in almost every sense.

 

…banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

I didn’t realise financial institutions were now in the business of selling cars. In my time, they made money from loans interest…

Your missing my point entirely  The Car finance , leasing and banks are losing Billions in losses on EVs as their value plummets ,, They are now refusing to finance the sales of EVs as the residuals  dont make them viable to lend money on .. Dealers are refusing to take them back as trade ins  , The insurance rates for EVs are alsonow double that of ICE vehicles too,  as a minor shunt  often destroys  the battery  , Ok some people will buy them but financially  the loss is shocking ... This is happening all over Europe  and it will also happen elsewhere .. When the finance people cant make money or ar losing it hand over fist EVs  dont make sense ...

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

what are the advantages of a fixed wall charger costing 30k-50k thb compared to a mobile charger (e.g., feyree 32a 7kw, around 6k thb)?

 

for my needs, 7kw will be enough, and i won't need the charger for on-the-go use. the feyree also comes with a user app.

so why spend significantly more on a wall box?

 

thanks for any feedback, motdaeng!

 

video is in thai ....

 

 

I have one of these and I gave another one away to a poster here.

 

If I didn't get free wall boxes from MG, VAG & BYD, I would still be using mine now.

 

IMHO there's no point in paying for a wall box when one of these is functionally equivalent.  Further, if you are fitting a wall box, fit one of these 32 amp plug & sockets in-between the consumer unit and the wall box so you can take the wall box with you if you move.  My ABB wall box is on a 32 amp plug.

 

 

[4myr]

On 12/7/2024 at 7:41 PM, matchar said:

It's hardware. The main difference is much faster DC charging if using public chargers and improved efficiency.

 

If looking for an SUV, also check out the Geely EX5, it's a bit cheaper...also Aion V but that looks a bit too cartoon for me.

 

Still in waiting mode here to check the upcoming EV's in 2025.

EX5: 100kw DC charging, more efficient than Atto 3. Will do a test drive in Dec/Jan
Deepal S05: rumored to be announced March 2025, to be produced in Rayong, better drive as RWD, faster 175kw DC charging, better efficiency than Atto 3, more cargo space, incl a big frunk, less cabin space
MG ES5: RWD also, when in 2025?, better efficiency than Atto 3, slow 87kw charging, will MG improve their software?
BYD: will there be a Atto 3 major change or replacement with blade battery Gen 2 with faster charging or longer range?
Xpeng: will Mona M03 come to Thailand? 
 

[transam]

55 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Your missing my point entirely  The Car finance , leasing and banks are losing Billions in losses on EVs as their value plummets ,, They are now refusing to finance the sales of EVs as the residuals  dont make them viable to lend money on .. Dealers are refusing to take them back as trade ins  , The insurance rates for EVs are alsonow double that of ICE vehicles too,  as a minor shunt  often destroys  the battery  , Ok some people will buy them but financially  the loss is shocking ... This is happening all over Europe  and it will also happen elsewhere .. When the finance people cant make money or ar losing it hand over fist EVs  dont make sense ...

Though I find your points interesting, a back-up link would be nice.......😉

[BritManToo]

17 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Second hand values on ICE  vehicles are still very good   Insurance in EU and UK on ICE vehicles is half  of EVs   80% of vehicles sold are ICE  , no one actually wants EVs  most EVs are forced sales to company users due to business taxation  , very few private buyers want them or could ever afford them...But my main point is that they  have no value  as second hand vehicles  and that is worrying the banks, finance companies as they lose money on every one sold or financed ...

Neta V is 425k new or 300k a year old.

Hardly expensive.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Neta V is 425k new or 300k a year old.

Hardly expensive.

10,000 quid, then lose 3000 quid in 12 months, hmmmm, so worth around threepence at 5 years old......😱.............🤭

[4myr]

Has anyone with an EV implemented this before:

V2L as automatic backup on grid outage:
Install an ATS [automatic transfer switch] before the main breaker switch panel.
If the car is home and not charging, connect the V2L adapter cable  to the car and the ATS fallback input line.

On a grid outage, the ATS will automatically switch to the V2L input of the car.

 

Charge EV solely with grid tied solar:

I have grid tied solar and excess electricity is sold to PEA. Contractually I cannot extend this array.
I am using a mobile charger of which the current [Amp] can be changed by an app.
I install a second array with a grid tied inverter.
If I charge the EV, I can control that the car is solely charged by solar by controlling the current  in the charger app and by adding the second inverter on demand, if extra power is required.
In order to comply to my PEA selling contract, I limit output of the second inverter to the max power draw of the charger by connecting the ct limiter of inverter to the charger AC cable. 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, 4myr said:

Has anyone with an EV implemented this before:

V2L as automatic backup on grid outage:
Install an ATS [automatic transfer switch] before the main breaker switch panel.
If the car is home and not charging, connect the V2L adapter cable  to the car and the ATS fallback input line.

On a grid outage, the ATS will automatically switch to the V2L input of the car.

 

Charge EV solely with grid tied solar:

I have grid tied solar and excess electricity is sold to PEA. Contractually I cannot extend this array.
I am using a mobile charger of which the current [Amp] can be changed by an app.
I install a second array with a grid tied inverter.
If I charge the EV, I can control that the car is solely charged by solar by controlling the current  in the charger app and by adding the second inverter on demand, if extra power is required.
In order to comply to my PEA selling contract, I limit output of the second inverter to the max power draw of the charger by connecting the ct limiter of inverter to the charger AC cable. 

I have done something similar, I have four ATS’s that will change over in a power cut, they control, lighting circuits, TV in master bedroom, Aircon in master bedroom, refrigerator in kitchen and whole house water pump.

 

 

[Pib]

7 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

what are the advantages of a fixed wall charger costing 30k-50k thb compared to a mobile charger (e.g., feyree 32a 7kw, around 6k thb)?

 

for my needs, 7kw will be enough, and i won't need the charger for on-the-go use. the feyree also comes with a user app.

so why spend significantly more on a wall box?

 

thanks for any feedback, motdaeng!

 

 

There may be no major differences between a wall and portable chargers other than outside physical design, input electrical wire/plug, etc.  Both types do the same basic thing which is monitor/control the amount of amps flowing to the EVs in conjunction with the EV's onboard charger.   

 

A wall/portable charger does "not" rectify 220V AC to a DC voltage.... so, it's not really a charger at all.  Technically it's "EV Supply Equipment (EVSE)."   An EVSE is basically an electronic safety switch/breaker which communicates with the EV telling the EV onboard charger (this is the real charger) that the EVSE will only honor a certain maximum amperage flow/pass-thru like 32A, 16A, ec., "and" the EVSE will also monitor for earth faults/shorts/etc.     The EV onboard charger must agree to not request more than a certain amperage as identified by the EVSE.    

 

When the onboard charger and EVSE come to agreement the EVSE will then engage its high power relays allowing  AC current to flow thru it to the EV onboard charger where the AC to DC rectification magic occurs....that is, the EVSE turns on it's electric spigot allowing AC current to flow to the onboard charger where it's converted to DC voltage to charge the battery.  And the EVSE monitors the current flow in coordination with the onboard charger.  If the onboard tries to draw more current than the EVSE told it earlier then the EVSE immediately breaks/stops the current flow....the EVSE acts like a circuit breaker because the onboard charger broke its agreement with the EVSE that the onboard charger would not draw more than X-amount of amps.

 

As to other differences between a wall or portable EVSE like does it have a Wifi connection, RFID on/off, display, selectable amperage max, mobile app, etc., well, that all depends on the manufacturer.   And if you take the cover off a wall EVSE you will find a lot of empty space and only see a small circuit board or two inside with some connectors, relays, and wires.   In a portable charger it will have very little un-occupied space,  a "smaller" circuit board,  etc.,...and its input power cord comes with a plug attached....it could be a plug that plugs into a typical household outlet, a big 32A special plug, etc.   

 

Regarding wall EVSE that cost Bt30K-50K those must be brand name premium (i.e., over-priced) EVSE and/or that pricing includes "installation costs" where high amps wire, circuit breaker, upgraded electric meter, etc., come into play.   Even if you buy a Bt6K 32A portable EVSE if you plan to run it at 32A or maybe even 16A you  may need to upgrade your house wiring, add circuit breakers, etc.., which cranks up the total cost. And you can get wall mounted 32A chargers for a LOT less than Bt30K...just for example the BYD ESVE for under Bt10K posted at the bottom.

 

And you may be wondering why I said ".....maybe even 16A...."   Well, if the 16A outlet you plan to run the portable EVSE on is on a circuit that is already powering other outlets which you have things like refrigerators, microwave, lights, TV, etc., plugged into already then than circuit is already pulling X-amount of amps....let's say 5A just for discussion.  Plug-in the portable EVSE set to 16A max....add 5A and you are now at 21A....even more (maybe around 8A more) if you turn your microwave on for a few minutes.  If the main breaker box circuit breaker all those electrical devices are hooked to say a 16A or 20A breaker then that breaker is going to trip within a few minutes to a few hours...probably trip while you are asleep and you wake up to a warm refrigerator, the EV stopped charging, etc.  And there is even the possibility of overheat wires.

 

Now what do you do since the circuit breaker tripped?  Well, you try setting the EVSE to a lower max amps....maybe 13A...maybe 10A...maybe all the way down to 8A.  Get down to 10A or lower then that no better than the 10A portable EVSE that probably came with your EV.   

 

So, be sure to fully evaluate....know the max amps....of the house circuit you plan to use the EVSE on.  You may find out you will need to have some higher amperage wires, circuit breaker, etc., installed if you want to charge at 16A or 32A.   Every house will be different as to the electrical circuits it has running around the house and what those circuits power.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Neta V is 425k new or 300k a year old.

Hardly expensive.

Neta V 2 is sold for 425K new the last of the Neta V 1 were being offered for B369K new or B200K+ for a 1 year old car

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Your missing my point entirely  The Car finance , leasing and banks are losing Billions in losses on EVs as their value plummets ,, They are now refusing to finance the sales of EVs as the residuals  dont make them viable to lend money on .. Dealers are refusing to take them back as trade ins  , The insurance rates for EVs are alsonow double that of ICE vehicles too,  as a minor shunt  often destroys  the battery  , Ok some people will buy them but financially  the loss is shocking ... This is happening all over Europe  and it will also happen elsewhere .. When the finance people cant make money or ar losing it hand over fist EVs  dont make sense ...

Your point makes no sense here in Thailand. Maybe in your home country, you can just hand the keys back to the finance company and walk away with no liability. It doesn’t work that way here. You are liable for all amounts outstanding on your loan until it’s fully paid up. Same in the UK if I’m not mistaken. So residual values mean nothing.

 

Do you think all those new EVs you see on Thai roads are purchased with cash?

[KhunLA]

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Neta V 2 is sold for 425K new the last of the Neta V 1 were being offered for B369K new or B200K+ for a 1 year old car

Please show us where these 1 or 2 yr old cars are going for 200k, as I peeked on FB marketplace, and thought most were silly priced high.  Not one, no matter age was 200k.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Please show us where these 1 or 2 yr old cars are going for 200k, as I peeked on FB marketplace, and thought most were silly priced high.  Not one, no matter age was 200k.

I never stated B200K I posted B200K+ and there are 1 year old cars in both Facebook and one2car that start with a 2 number

There are people looking for Neta V in the facebook group price ranging from B200-B280K there are people selling with mumbers that start with 2

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I never stated B200K I posted B200K+ and there are 1 year old cars in both Facebook and one2car that start with a 2 number

There are people looking for Neta V in the facebook group price ranging from B200-B280K there are people selling with mumbers that start with 2

 

I have seen 2nd hand Seals from B1+

 

People are selling with numbers starting with 1.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I have seen 2nd hand Seals from B1+

 

People are selling with numbers starting with 1.

I yet to see any Byd seals for sale with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 1

There were MG EV listed at auction yesterday with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 3

and one Neta V  2023 model  listed at B220k however we don't know what the final price was if it was sold

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=122157410414280437&set=pcb.8767107270076459

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I yet to see any Byd seals for sale with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 1

There were MG EV listed at auction yesterday with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 3

and one Neta V  2023 model  listed at B220k however we don't know what the final price was if it was sold

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=122157410414280437&set=pcb.8767107270076459

 

 

Lots on facebook marketplace, here's one

(1) Marketplace - 2023 BYD SEAL premium 4AWD | Facebook

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Lots on facebook marketplace, here's one

(1) Marketplace - 2023 BYD SEAL premium 4AWD | Facebook

And that has 7 digits in the price tag starting with a 1 have you seen any with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 1

[KhunLA]

55 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I never stated B200K I posted B200K+ and there are 1 year old cars in both Facebook and one2car that start with a 2 number

There are people looking for Neta V in the facebook group price ranging from B200-B280K there are people selling with mumbers that start with 2

= ฿299k in the real world, and very few of those, and more like 300k+, on FB

 

One linked, 1+ yr old w/47k+ kms, someone drives a lot..  Our ZS is 2 yr 2 months and only 36k kms.

[JBChiangRai]

24 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And that has 7 digits in the price tag starting with a 1 have you seen any with a 6 digit price tag starting with a 1

 

That has 6 digits in the price tag, it has 7 digits in the price tag too.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

= ฿299k in the real world, and very few of those, and more like 300k+, on FB

 

One linked, 1+ yr old w/47k+ kms, someone drives a lot..  Our ZS is 2 yr 2 months and only 36k kms.

2023 Neta V 36,000km opening price B270K

https://www.facebook.com/groups/437576785036424/permalink/1133777235416372

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

2023 Neta V 36,000km opening price B270K

https://www.facebook.com/groups/437576785036424/permalink/1133777235416372

Even at 270k, I think it's over priced.  Not LFP, and unless budget restricted, better options.  Although, great knock around town car, vs new entry level 'made in TH' JP badged ICEV at 600k.

 

Think I'd take the Neta V for 300k over any new JP badge ICEV.  Just the spare 300k would buy a solar system for a house & to charge car ... paying for itself in no time.

 

If only having 300k, petrol savings would eventually pay for itself over life of the Neta.  All pluses no matter 👍

 

Maybe conversation should be on 'EV vs ICEV' thread, though it's been done 10's of times.

 

PEACE OUT

[transam]

So, are THAI (not farangy) EV buyers off loading them, didn't like the fuss of getting them to actually move, the gas station was easy, where ever you were.........?    🤔

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

So, are THAI (not farangy) EV buyers off loading them, didn't like the fuss of getting them to actually move, the gas station was easy, where ever you were.........?    🤔

Hey look what I found! A Thai selling a car.

https://www.facebook.com/share/17wCPQWLyu/

So, are Thai ICEV buyers offloading them, didn't like the fuss of driving to petrol stations, didn't like the poisonous fumes, the noise, the smell, the lack of performance?

Just more nonsense from Transam.

People sell cars. Sometimes they trade up. Sometimes they can't keep up the payments. But oh no, Transam has to make up some stupid reasons instead.

[4myr]

Existing EV batteries may last up to 40% longer than expected

Many of you may have read or scanned this article. This is the more technical paper.

 

Here my takeaways having read variations of this paper:

1) the real world statistics of battery degradation of around 1.8% per year have not changed as the baseline. What has changed is that real world battery usage gives a better lifespan than the standard laboratory measured constant charge/discharge cycles.

 

2) So your battery can drive longer than the specified charge cycles x km range of your battery. This applies in particular to [plugin] hybrid batteries that does more dynamic cycling in HEV mode than constant charge/discharge in pure EV mode.

 

3) city urban driving with lots of stop/go, accelerate and regenerative braking is better, than driving on a quiet motorway using the cruise control on a constant speed. Fortunately Thailand main roads are not so quiet. 

4) giving the battery a rest after driving, instead of immediately charging is better for the lifespan. However many of us will not do this when stopping to charge on long road trips. Fortunately this "bad" behavior is already included in the real world stats of 1.8% battery degradation. 

 

5) on time induced aging. If leaving the car idle for several weeks, it is better to ask someone to drive the car to do an errand, instead of asking to start the car only to charge the low voltage battery.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Hey look what I found! A Thai selling a car.

https://www.facebook.com/share/17wCPQWLyu/

So, are Thai ICEV buyers offloading them, didn't like the fuss of driving to petrol stations, didn't like the poisonous fumes, the noise, the smell, the lack of performance?

Just more nonsense from Transam.

People sell cars. Sometimes they trade up. Sometimes they can't keep up the payments. But oh no, Transam has to make up some stupid reasons instead.

So no constructive comment then, just a put-down, as the click here generally does.............Oh well...🤔