Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Pib]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Is this a new marketing technique

I don't believe that BYD and a number of other brands  haven't received a single booking at the current motor show more likely not releasing figures for some reason

Details of car reservations at the event

https://bims45.motorshow.in.th/statistics#

Correct.   The motor show booking/reservation stats up until today had a note code sayings those manufacturers with "slashes" for their booking numbers was due to some manufacturers having decided not to release their booking numbers until the end of the motor show on 7 March.   That note seems to have disappeared now. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Correct.   The motor show booking/reservation stats up until today had a note code sayings those manufacturers with "slashes" for their booking numbers was due to some manufacturers having decided not to release their booking numbers until the end of the motor show on 7 March.   That note seems to have disappeared now. 

That is an opportunity we can't miss. The floor is open for bids on March 7th (April 7th, right?) sales numbers 🎰. 

Wild guesses from my side.

BYD = 1,888

Vinfast = 222

[JBChiangRai]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Is this a new marketing technique

I don't believe that BYD and a number of other brands  haven't received a single booking at the current motor show more likely not releasing figures for some reason

Details of car reservations at the event

https://bims45.motorshow.in.th/statistics#

 

I am not surprised.  I was somewhat suspicious of the last motorshow results, first 2 days BYD outsold Toyota then the cheating started...

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is an opportunity we can't miss. The floor is open for bids on March 7th (April 7th, right?) sales numbers 🎰. 

Wild guesses from my side.

BYD = 1,888

Vinfast = 222

Vinfast = 0. They are not selling at the show, merely testing the waters and putting their vehicles out there for a later launch in Thailand.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is an opportunity we can't miss. The floor is open for bids on March 7th (April 7th, right?) sales numbers 🎰. 

Wild guesses from my side.

BYD = 1,888

Vinfast = 222

 

I'll guess 3,200 for BYD since they booked 5,455 at the 29 Nov-10 Dec 2023 Motor Expo 2023 (see pic at bottom).    I just can't see the current, outgoing motor show booking numbers approaching the late 2023 motor show numbers of over 53,000 for all EV/ICEV manufacturers as I think potential buyers are gun-shy of buying right now due to the ongoing cut-throat pricing for EV and ICEV....that is, buy today and next month the same new vehicle will be Bt100K cheaper pis%ing a person off.   

 

Of course other factors will also probably suppress total numbers as a sales slump of EV and ICEV seem to be occurring right now in many countries to include Thailand...probably by mid 2024 the sales pace will start picking up again.  But who really knows...my cloudy crystal ball gets it wrong all the time.

 

https://www.motorexpo.co.th/exhibitors/profile/2449

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I am not surprised.  I was somewhat suspicious of the last motorshow results, first 2 days BYD outsold Toyota then the cheating started...

I think this year brands wouldn't be focused on bookings so much and instead focus on completed sales as the FTI are stating at the moment rejection rate for finance is 50% so expect completed sales will be down

some brands have already downgraded their forecast total number of sales for the year 2024 due to current sharp economic contraction

Neta was reporting 20% finance rejection last August 

[idealistic123]

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

[mistral53]

Interesting test results by a Chinese outlet (Dongchendi) on CLTC vs. actual range for some models sold in China, what is especially curios are the significant variations between models, i.e. from below 20% to almost 40% loss.

 

No details were given about test parameters, so it is not possible to evaluate the test conditions and how they might have affected the result.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

As long as you have access to a standard outlet, you'll be able to use the emergency/granny charger that comes with the car.  Overnight or when ever, and you' can charge up over 2kWh an hour with it.  Ours puts out 2.3kWh, so 8/10/12 hrs on that, and our car gets about 7.5kms per kWh, so 60/75/90 kms range added for those times.

 

We have a wall charger, but rarely use it, since it's on the grid.  So we use the granny charger, 99% of the time, as having solar, and home during the day.

 

Depending where you live, I'm not sure relying on a public charger would really be that much of an inconvenience.  Download 'Charge Loma' app, as I find it best for amount of charging stations it shows, and can filter fast chargers only, and certain vendors.  I filter fast & 4 different vendors that we use; MG, EV Station Pluz, PEA Volta & Elexa.  It's fairly decent for a ball park idea, not completely up to date, as the vendor apps are.

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

 

My lady friend in her 70's from our former colonies has ordered the BYD Atto 410 and she lives off grid with solar insufficient for charging.  We have a BYD Dealer in town and she intends to go there once a week for free coffee & breakfast and fast charge up there.

 

She goes once a week to Sizzler in Central Mall and will slow charge top-up whilst shopping & dining.  We meet up every Tuesday for lunch on the drag and always park in Wiangcome Hotel which is 40 baht an hour for parking or free if you use one of their slow chargers at about 50 baht per hour.

 

She expects she won't need to have the free BYD breakfast and fast DC charge every week with her lifestyle.

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

 

It would be helpful to know where you are located, if you are retired and what your monthly milage is.

 

My EV has 580km of range which equivalent to 83km/day range if you charged once a week. 

 

My local Robinson here in Surin NE Thailand has 4 chargers and cheap rates at weekends.  

 

If I were you I would combine my charging with other activities like meeting friends for coffee.

 

I can add 7km of range per kWh and can charge at 150kW/hour. So I can add 350km of range in 20 minutes.

[macahoom]

37 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

We meet up every Tuesday for lunch on the drag and always park in Wiangcome Hotel

 

You dirty old devil!

[Andrew Dwyer]

10 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

I use home charging but could quite easily rely solely on public charging if necessary, there are chargers at 3 malls ( Big C , Central and City Park ) which I could combine with a weekly grocery shopping trip/long lunch/cinema or just browsing. Central has 8 or 10 chargers all rarely used.

 

Of course it depends on your car usage, battery size and charging speed/location of local chargers but I am sure a weekly visit to one of the above locations would work for me to fulfill my local needs.

[BKKBike09]

On 3/29/2024 at 10:25 PM, josephbloggs said:

Seriously, you have a 400km - 500km range, who runs out of juice? Petrol or EV it doesn't matter, who is that stupid?

 

The point is surely that if you are down to 50 km range in an ICE, there are filling stations everywhere and it takes 5 mins to fill the tank. The speed at which a car gets filled with petrol doesn't vary very much.

 

If you're down to 50 km range in an EV, it can take some planning to find an available fast charger and 45-60 mins to charge to 100% (especially when the high speed 150 kw or whatever chargers share that 150 kw among however many cars are plugged in, so could be you get a much lower charging rate). 

 

None of this matters if you don't need to make an immediate longer journey, of course, but it's still an area where I think EVs fall behind ICE. That may of course change with newer battery and charging tech.

 

EV depreciation is also untested waters in Thailand. But logic says why would someone want to buy an EV with, say, a 5-year old battery? Nothing to do with whether it doesn't hold charge as well as when new - much more to do with 'today's 60 kwh / 90 kw max charge rate' battery will likely, in 5 years, be as outdated as a 5-year old laptop or phone. They all still work fine, but the spec on new has advanced massively. 

 

In comparison, a 5-year old IC engine won't be massively improved upon by whatever is available 5 years from now.

 

So today's EVs will likely depreciate way more than an equivalent ICE. May matter to some people.

 

Don't get me wrong - I bought an Atto 3 the first day they went on sale and am very happy with it after 15 months of ownership. Fantastic for urban use if you have a home charger. But I still believe while EVs massively outperform ICE in some applications, they still don't do that as far as 'ease of filling up' is concerned.

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

You dirty old devil!

 

Don't, I like rice not potatoes!

[mistral53]

3 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

The point is surely that if you are down to 50 km range in an ICE, there are filling stations everywhere and it takes 5 mins to fill the tank. The speed at which a car gets filled with petrol doesn't vary very much.

 

If you're down to 50 km range in an EV, it can take some planning to find an available fast charger and 45-60 mins to charge to 100% (especially when the high speed 150 kw or whatever chargers share that 150 kw among however many cars are plugged in, so could be you get a much lower charging rate). 

 

None of this matters if you don't need to make an immediate longer journey, of course, but it's still an area where I think EVs fall behind ICE. That may of course change with newer battery and charging tech.

 

EV depreciation is also untested waters in Thailand. But logic says why would someone want to buy an EV with, say, a 5-year old battery? Nothing to do with whether it doesn't hold charge as well as when new - much more to do with 'today's 60 kwh / 90 kw max charge rate' battery will likely, in 5 years, be as outdated as a 5-year old laptop or phone. They all still work fine, but the spec on new has advanced massively. 

 

In comparison, a 5-year old IC engine won't be massively improved upon by whatever is available 5 years from now.

 

So today's EVs will likely depreciate way more than an equivalent ICE. May matter to some people.

 

Don't get me wrong - I bought an Atto 3 the first day they went on sale and am very happy with it after 15 months of ownership. Fantastic for urban use if you have a home charger. But I still believe while EVs massively outperform ICE in some applications, they still don't do that as far as 'ease of filling up' is concerned.

 

 

 

I agree with your take on EV's, except for the fast- or super-charging bit. It is much more important to have a dense network of chargers, than the ultra high charging speeds. Moreover, going at it with much over 200 kW brings with it a truckload of problems, especially if the charge station holds multiple stations. If you have 20 bays charging at 500 kW you need a small powerplant close by, not to mention that each charger needs to be water cooled, including the cables......... and good luck for the ladies hauling a 20 Kg charging cable around, broken finger nails and all  🤣

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

......... and good luck for the ladies hauling a 20 Kg charging cable around, broken finger nails and all  🤣

I don't get out of the car when at charging stations.  Someone has to unlock & lock the car, beside, all but 1 app is on the wife's phone.   

 

She has no problem plugging in, as I see many ladies doing the same when we're charging.

[JBChiangRai]

Typically 8 year old ICE cars have a residual value of about 25%.  With a battery SoH report showing 90% or more, I can't see any reason why a BEV would be a lot lower than that, and if it were half that, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

I am sure people buying older BEV's will want a SoH report and the price will be closely linked to that.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Typically 8 year old ICE cars have a residual value of about 25%.  With a battery SoH report showing 90% or more, I can't see any reason why a BEV would be a lot lower than that, and if it were half that, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

I am sure people buying older BEV's will want a SoH report and the price will be closely linked to that.

I thought a battery could fail at any time, especially an old one made up of thousands of cells............🤔

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I thought a battery could fail at any time, especially an old one made up of thousands of cells............🤔

 

It can fail at any time, but I think a good SoH report will be more important to people than the worry it will fail when it will have happened so few times.

 

An ICE can seize up and be economically unrepairable at any time too but it happens so infrequently, people still buy them outside warranty.

 

Who knows, maybe we will see 3rd party warranties become available on batteries?

[mistral53]

52 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I don't get out of the car when at charging stations.  Someone has to unlock & lock the car, beside, all but 1 app is on the wife's phone.   

 

She has no problem plugging in, as I see many ladies doing the same when we're charging.

You are charging at 500 kW super-charging stations?

 

Thought so..........  🤣

 

I once went to a 150 kW DC fast charger, the cable was already quite hefty, so a 500 kW water cooled cable is probably pretty nutty.

This is a sample:

at 400 V and 500 A it's 200 kW

at 800 V and 500 A it's 400 kW

at 1,000 V and 500 A it's 500 kW

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, idealistic123 said:

Does anyone own an EV but can’t charge at home? 
 

I just moved to a new house (rental) and can’t / don’t want to install a wallbox. 

However there is a gas station with chargers just around the corner. 

 

That’s why I’m wondering if some people here rely on public chargers only? 

Plug the manufacturer provided Level 1 charge cable into a wall socket whenever you’re at home and you probably never need to visit the charging station next door for your daily needs.

[Bandersnatch]

Electric or Diesel SUV which one has more Luxury for the money?

 

 

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

You are charging at 500 kW super-charging stations?

 

Thought so..........  🤣

 

I once went to a 150 kW DC fast charger, the cable was already quite hefty, so a 500 kW water cooled cable is probably pretty nutty.

Yeap...even an EA Anywhere 90KW charging station cable is a hefty, handful to handle cable.   Can a lady do it...sure....but it takes some real effort especially in tight quarters. 

 

  I'm a man and have used these 90KW charger several times and handling an EA Anywhere 90KW charging cable compared say a 50KW charging cable is like comparing the lifting of a 20 pound bag to a 10 pound bag of something.   But a hefty cable is a side effect of bigger chargers....liquid cooled cables may reduce the weight but I haven't run across any liquid cooled charging cables in Thailand yet.

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

21 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

You are charging at 500 kW super-charging stations?

 

Thought so..........  🤣

 

I once went to a 150 kW DC fast charger, the cable was already quite hefty, so a 500 kW water cooled cable is probably pretty nutty.

This is a sample:

at 400 V and 500 A it's 200 kW

at 800 V and 500 A it's 400 kW

at 1,000 V and 500 A it's 500 kW

Thailand ... nuff said

[dhupverg]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:03 PM, 3NUMBAS said:

nobodys talking about the extra weight on roads and causing potholes and multi story car parks cant take the extra weight and collapsing

Tire manufacturers love EV's.  The price of the tires are  more to handle the weight, and the tires wear out  faster.

 

This is an interesting video from CNBC.

 

[KhunLA]

40 minutes ago, dhupverg said:

Tire manufacturers love EV's.  The price of the tires are  more to handle the weight, and the tires wear out  faster.

 

This is an interesting video from CNBC.

 

And all heavy vehicles & trucks, along with teen drivers, real or wishing, that do rabbit starts and hard braking.

 

Another silly ev hater post...

... troll on

 

Off topic, and more appropriate on the ICE vs EV thread

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, dhupverg said:

Tire manufacturers love EV's.  The price of the tires are  more to handle the weight, and the tires wear out  faster.

 

This is an interesting video from CNBC.

 

 

Interesting video.  Most tyre shops will simply match the spec of the tyre and not offer anything specifically for an EV, however, if the rating is the same, it's perfectly fine.

 

I will jump 2 sizes up on width when I replace my Seal Performance rear tyres and if I can get foam filled then I want that too.  I think it's more important you get a soft compound on a high-performance car, and the penalty is tyre wear.

 

I had a Honda NSX in the UK (Acura NSX in the US), it came with Yokohama tyres which were very soft and needed replacing in 5,000 miles.  I thought there was something wrong with the car, but the dealer assured me that was normal for that car.

 

I replaced them with equivalent Toyo tires which were cheaper and generally lasted me about 12,000 miles.  As a bonus they had a warranty, I did puncture the sidewall on one and they replaced it just charging me for the tread worn.  I couldn't notice any difference in handling.  The NSX was considered a supercar with a 0-100kmhr of 5.3s, all aluminium engine & body.

 

I had to replace the clutch twice in 70,000 miles.  I would book a break to Florida and pick up the Acura clutch which was less than half the price, about $1,200 and the saving paid for my holiday.

[idealistic123]

4 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

It would be helpful to know where you are located, if you are retired and what your monthly milage is.

 

My EV has 580km of range which equivalent to 83km/day range if you charged once a week. 

 

My local Robinson here in Surin NE Thailand has 4 chargers and cheap rates at weekends.  

 

If I were you I would combine my charging with other activities like meeting friends for coffee.

 

I can add 7km of range per kWh and can charge at 150kW/hour. So I can add 350km of range in 20 minutes.

I moved to the east side of Pattaya close to the highways. So within a radius of 5km there are two PTT gas stations with charging stations. 

Besides that there are probably a lot of options in and around Pattaya city. 

 

My monthly mileage is 1.500km with 90% short rides (<60km). 

 

So considering all of that my profile would be more or less ideal for an EV. 

 

Which EV does give you a range of 580km? BYD Seal? 

[Andrew Dwyer]

36 minutes ago, idealistic123 said:

I moved to the east side of Pattaya close to the highways. So within a radius of 5km there are two PTT gas stations with charging stations. 

Besides that there are probably a lot of options in and around Pattaya city. 

 

My monthly mileage is 1.500km with 90% short rides (<60km). 

 

So considering all of that my profile would be more or less ideal for an EV. 

 

Which EV does give you a range of 580km? BYD Seal? 

BYD Seal Performance ( AWD ) is rated at 580 km but I doubt anyone gets above 500 km.

I have the BYD Seal Premium which is rated at 650 km, realistically I get around 580 km but I do drive conservatively.

My efficiency is currently:

13.6 kWh/100 km 

Battery 80 kw divided by 13.6 = 5.88 x 100 = 588 km range.

( where is the divided symbol on an iPhone ? ).

 

Seal Premium is you want range, Seal Performance if you want performance..