9 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

That i don’t know but i would guess you would pay 7.9 on a Spark charger using the Rever app.

My Rever rate was 6.4 THB.

We’ve taken to plugging the car in every time we stop for coffee to eat.

It doesn’t take any time and it takes less time when we do actually need to charge up.

I checked most of the PTT’s on the Southbound carriage from Chiang Rai on Highway 1, all except one had EV charging although only half of them had signs up.

Mostly empty and we didn’t need to queue the 2 times we stopped for coffee and lunch.

2 nights here then on to Ratchaburi on Sunday which is about 550km from Mae Phrik.

We had the cruise control set at 90 knhr almost all the way and arrived at Mae Phrik charger with 50% battery left, exactly as predicted by the SL7 navigation.

Edited May 29May 29 by JBChiangRai

19 hours ago, matchar said:

The new Changan Nevo Q05 looks nice. Very competitively priced.

https://autolifethailand.tv/changan-nevo-q05-unofficial-price-thailand/

Indeed, it does look it will be a hit here. but It is not a Dolphin competitor, it's much bigger, more like the old Atto3 specs.

27 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

100% electric vehicles registrations in Thailand collapses in April 2026

Registrations dropped by a whopping 0.9% compared to the previous month but they were up by 59.7% compared to the same month of the previous year according to AutoLifeThailand

When looking at the total MG and BYD are pretty close now. Either one will take the lead eventually, I wonder which. My bet is in BYD if they bring the new models here, otherwise it MG.

23 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I wouldn't buy an EV if I didn't own a house with charging facilities.

My house will be ready in 9 months, with 7kW charger and solar setup.

You can't keep on giving that advice to the thousands of EV taxis eh?

Edited May 29May 29 by brfsa2

20 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

We go on our road trip tomorrow

*29/05 Mae Phrik

*31/05 Ratchaburi

*03/06 Chumphon

*05/06 Khao Lak

*08/06 Krabi

*11/06 Khanom

*13/06 Hua Hin

*16/06 Nakhon Pathom

*18/06 Phitsan

*20/06 Lampang

I’m not expecting to need to book any charging stations. Fingers crossed.

Nice! You will certainly enjoy, keep in mind here in the south, specially Krabi and Nakhon Si, it's raining heavy this week and the raining season here already started, 1-2 months earlier than in the Central northern area.

I go to Khanom quite often for the beach and seafood restaurants there, they are amazing! the family loves this one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gvp3AAuqc7hpdggR7 (there are many choices and good sea food restaurants, be cafefull with the spicy ones hehe )

Edited May 29May 29 by brfsa2

17 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have Platinum status on ReverSharger, which I think means about 5.x baht/Kwhr, do I get the same rate on Spark using the ReverSharger app or do I get 7.9Kwhr (Spark rate).

My only intended stop for charging tomorrow is at Mae Phrik and it has both Spark & Rever.

ReverSharger Cost depending on a person's tier/points level.

Rules when using ReverSharger app to use a Spark charger...points, discount, etc.

26 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

I go to Khanom quite often for the beach and seafood restaurants there, they are amazing! the family loves this one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gvp3AAuqc7hpdggR7 (there are many choices and good sea food restaurants, be cafefull with the spicy ones hehe )

Drove thru Khanom, again, just last week while O&A. Have yet to stay there, always before or North of. One of these trips 🙄

Nice drive up the coast, pass Moon Cafe & Roti

51 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

Nice! You will certainly enjoy, keep in mind here in the south, specially Krabi and Nakhon Si, it's raining heavy this week and the raining season here already started, 1-2 months earlier than in the Central northern area.

I go to Khanom quite often for the beach and seafood restaurants there, they are amazing! the family loves this one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gvp3AAuqc7hpdggR7 (there are many choices and good sea food restaurants, be cafefull with the spicy ones hehe )

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Drove thru Khanom, again, just last week while O&A. Have yet to stay there, always before or North of. One of these trips 🙄

Nice drive up the coast, pass Moon Cafe & Roti

I will try that seafood restaurant if time permits, my view is it is impossible for food to be too spicy. My favourite restaurant in Khanom is Botega Jira, only open Friday thru Sunday. Wonderful Italian food, especially homemade pasta. If truth be told, it’s why I picked Khanom.

I’ve been to Khanom twice before, I took my daughters there for a week a couple of years ago, we rented a condo in Khanom Beach Residence Condos. I have the contact of the agent if anyone wants it, he handles a few condos there and his own is on the top floor, seafront with stunning views and you can rent it.

Edited May 29May 29 by JBChiangRai

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

EV registration in Thailand for the first quarter 2026 (January – March 2026) totaled 57,147 units (representing 30.9% of the total vehicle registrations in Thailand, which amounted to 185,006 units). according to AutolifeThailand

Transman was right - they'll never catch on.

20 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Transman was right - they'll never catch on.

Same for @ExpatOilWorker

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Same for @ExpatOilWorker

It's strange they have both decided to stop posting on the forum. What a coincidence, I can't imagine why!

On 5/24/2026 at 10:18 PM, brfsa2 said:

Guys just look at this beautiful work of art!

Isn’t it one of the best looking cars now?

It’s just stunning!

IMG_4515.mov

Hope wife and you enjoy the new IM5.

I noticed that DLT registration stats thru Apr 2026 and a recent autolifethailand article does not show any registrations for IM5 unless I'm simply can't find the IM5 or MG IM5 designation anywhere. Shows IM6 registrations but no IM5 registrations. I guess that is due to the IM5 "actulally, finally" arriving Thailand vs the tons of IM5 advertising I'm been seeing for months and months talking about the IM5. Maybe your registration will be the first!!! Anyway, enjoy you new EV....and with a 100KWH battery you'll definitely have much less need to do DC charging stops for road trips, O&A, etc.

On 5/24/2026 at 8:26 PM, Pib said:

Regarding my BYD Sealion 7 AWD I got less than a week ago, today the wife and I did a 432km roundtrip from our western Bangkok home to Laem Chabang seaport area in Chonburi, Pattaya/Jomtiem Beach, Sattahip, Utapao, and Bang Chang.

I'm following the BYD "break-in" recommendation to not drive the car above 90kmh for the first 2,000km and drive in ECO mode during this period. During this trip I was interested in what "real world" mileage I would get. My SL7 AWD with 82.5Kwh battery has a 542Km NEDC rating and a 456km WLTP rating.

About 75% of the drive was on expressways/motorways where I maintained an 85 to 90Kmh speed....around 20% on smaller highways at around 60 to 90Kmh...and then 5% doing around 25 to 50kmh on small sois. A/C set to 24C.

I left home with 100% SOC and returned with 18% SOC remaining. So I used 82% of my charge to drive 432km....extrapolating that to 0% SOC remaining gives a 527Km "real world" mileage on this particular trip where I kept the speed at/below 90kmh in ECO mode....conservative driving. And the SL7 drove just fine...smooth....I be happy.

And today/Saturday the wife and I did a 324km O&A from our western Bangkok home to Ratchaburi, Kanchanaburi, and Nakhon Pathom provinces. The majority of the drive was on 2 lane rural roads in the farm lands with plenty of hills in Ratchaburi and Kanchanaburi provinces. Speed in the 50 to 90kmh range....never exceeded 90kmh....I would guess we had an average speed of around 75kmh. Drove in ECO mode except maybe for 10km where I had it in Sport mode. A/C set to 24C....ambient temp around 35C....no rain....pretty much a blue sky day to drive.

For this 324Km trip 58% of battery charge was used....extrapolating that to 100% charge used gives a real world range of 559Km....even better than the 527Km I got on last week's trip talked in my above post. But today's drive had a lower average speed as last week's drive include a lot of expressway driving at just under 90Kmh.

Anyway, getting really good mileage with the SL7 AWD which has a 82.5Kwh battery, front and rear motors, etc. But the front motor is pretty much only used when accelerating...it pretty much freewheeling/on standby drawing very little if any power until needed for extra horsepower/heavy acceleration.

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

the front motor is pretty much only used when accelerating...it pretty much freewheeling/on standby drawing very little if any power until needed for extra horsepower/heavy acceleration.

I am quite certain under deceleration for stability reason, the front motor will participate in regen, too.

I remember Seal testers jumping between the RWD and AWD commented on the higher regen in the AWD, presumably because of the added front motor.

In the AWD Zeekr with functioning motor/power-flow graphics, it shows exactly that MO.

1 minute ago, mistral53 said:

I am quite certain under deceleration for stability reason, the front motor will participate in regen, too.

I remember Seal testers jumping between the RWD and AWD commented on the higher regen in the AWD, presumably because of the added front motor.

In the AWD Zeekr with functioning motor/power-flow graphics, it shows exactly that MO.

Yea...agree. In my above post I was focusing on use (forward motion) while driving under steady cruise speed. I expect the front motor does indeed fully participate in regen because I have noticed when decelerating "without using physicals brakes" around 20Kw of regen power is displayed on the dash display which is a little over twice as much as my single motor Atto generates "without using physical brakes." When using physical brakes also a lot more regen power is generated since that's telling the motors that more regen (generator) power is need to slow down the car.

Tomorrow I will try to remember to look at the motor/battery graphics that show which direction electrons are flowing to and from the two motors....I haven't done that while slowing down...I've only looked under steady cruise speed.

Edited May 30May 30 by Pib

Interesting posts by Pib and Mistral above regarding range expectations. I've been reading and watching everything I can on the topic and The Electric Viking did a video a few days ago (below) that sort of sews up everything I know about range and which EV I will buy. It turns out that speed is the enemy of range as we as other factors. Pib stated he stayed at 90 and below. That kind of speed on long open highways and tollways would not be attractive for me. That combined with flat terrain makes the range of the SL7 attractive for those use cases.

In my case, I have mostly decided on a 600km+ WLTP range vehicle (most likely the 2026/27 refreshed Zeekr 7x LR) because of my use case. Most of my daily driving is city driving, but monthly involves trips to BKK or Chonburi and airport and return home which is entirely along a highway (new tollway) and up the mountain to Korat. I have made this trip in other EVs and have seen how this type of trip (260km on google - but 400+km range vehicles depletes the battery quick (especially 100 plus KPH driving and the constant uphill grade to Pakchong Khao Yai. I originally thought that the LFP battery range of about 485km in SL7, the new Mazda Cx-6e, or even standard range Zeekrs and Teslas would be ok. But after reading how all batteries deplete up to 20% by 10 years and how speed over 90, highway driving and gradient affects range I will now only go for a long range EV in NMC battery. I will wait to buy at year end motor show.

Asia's EVolution: China's growing electric car pains offer lessons for the region and beyond
I came across this link while doing some research; it's definitely worth a read.

I do think EV's are the future of transport, but the development is still progressing at a far faster pace than what is good for your wallet, leading to massive depreciation in a short time for vehicles. For those who have excess solar power for charging at home, who are not concerned about depreciation and have large enough wallets to keep updating their vehicles, then carry on enjoying your rides.

23 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Asia's EVolution: China's growing electric car pains offer lessons for the region and beyond
I came across this link while doing some research; it's definitely worth a read.

I do think EV's are the future of transport, but the development is still progressing at a far faster pace than what is good for your wallet, leading to massive depreciation in a short time for vehicles. For those who have excess solar power for charging at home, who are not concerned about depreciation and have large enough wallets to keep updating their vehicles, then carry on enjoying your rides.

Sorry, I don't understand your comments about depreciation and having to use your wallet more.

In my case, I usually buy a new car every 10 to 12 years, so I never worry about depreciation.

I pay less for my EV running than my ICE SUV. I have had the EV for over a year, mainly charge from our home solar.

In that year I have paid extra B5000 for lifetime warranty, plus a few hundred baht for extra trim and less that B 1000 for charging at stations.

2 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Interesting posts by Pib and Mistral above regarding range expectations. I've been reading and watching everything I can on the topic.....

Yeap...aerodynamic efficiency/drag coefficient (Cd) definitely has a huge impact on fuel efficient....how many electrons consumed per km. Below weblink gives the drag coefficient for many brands/models of EVs. Sedans (saloons) are generally the most efficient due to their generally streamlined shape "and being lower to the ground than say a SUV."

Below weblink lists the Cd for quite a few EVs....but far from listing all models...take a look. Although my BYD Sealion 7 is not on the list an AI search says it has a Cd of 0.28 to 0.29 depending on trim....sounds about right for a SUV style vehicle.

https://www.evspecs.org/most-aerodynamic-electric-cars?

Snapshot of list beginning...

Some BYD EVs

Some Zeekr EVs

Zeekr 7X

Edited May 31May 31 by Pib

1 hour ago, Madgee said:

Asia's EVolution: China's growing electric car pains offer lessons for the region and beyond
I came across this link while doing some research; it's definitely worth a read.

I do think EV's are the future of transport, but the development is still progressing at a far faster pace than what is good for your wallet, leading to massive depreciation in a short time for vehicles. For those who have excess solar power for charging at home, who are not concerned about depreciation and have large enough wallets to keep updating their vehicles, then carry on enjoying your rides.

Paid 220kbht for my 2yo Neta V.

Now 3 years old, still selling them at the same price.

(10,000 trouble free kilometers, new tax and ins 1,500bht, 30k service 1,500bht)

Fuel cost for those 10,000KM ZERO from my solar panels.

Choose carefully = ZERO depreciation.

Edited May 31May 31 by BritManToo

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Now 3 years old, still slling them at the same price.

Are you claiming that 3 year pld Neta V's are selling for 220,000 or that new ones are still 220,000.

Depreciation does happen until you sell a 3 year old one. This is not solely applicable to electric cars.

11 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Are you claiming that 3 year pld Neta V's are selling for 220,000 or that new ones are still 220,000.

Depreciation does happen until you sell a 3 year old one. This is not solely applicable to electric cars.

The price of Neta cars plummeted once the company went belly-up. After the initial drop a year ago they have held steady because people are coming to the realization that dealerships aren't needed to fix issues.

I bought a Neta because I was unsure about EV's but after 18 months, I will never go back! This is the least expensive EV on the market and it blows away other cars I've owned here in Thailand. For the simple type like me that want a car that is comfortable and get me from point a to b, it is a dream. I could go out tomorrow and buy a new Seal or whatever but why? My ego would get a boost but within a few months that would be gone. I love this little car :)

Edited May 31May 31 by atpeace

4 minutes ago, atpeace said:

The price of Neta cars plummeted once the company went belly-up. After the initial drop a year ago they have held steady because people are coming to the realization that dealerships aren't needed to fix issues.

I bought a Neta because I was unsure about EV's but after 18 months, I will never go back! This is the least expensive EV on the market and it blows away other cars I've owned here in Thailand. For the simple type like me that want a car that is comfortable and get me from point a to b, it is a dream. I could go out tomorrow and buy a new Seal or whatever but why? My ego would get a boost but within a few months that would be gone. I love this little car :)

100% agree, probably the best car I've ever driven.

Plenty of room for my 6' height, easy and comfortable to drive.

Total driving costs for 1 year and 10,000Km = 3,000bht. (tax + ins + service)

For those scoping-out a future EV buy and you are putting extra focus on the high voltage battery specs, many times an EV's brochure may only list the "total or gross" battery capacity (and the brochure may not even say gross capacity...just says capacity} but the brochure may not list the battery's "useable (net)" capacity which takes in account an unusable buffers amount of x-KWH. A KWH buffer amount that can not be used to drive the car....a buffer amount of so many KWHs reserved/hidden to protected the battery from the detrimental effects of being over- or under-charged. This applies to NMC or LFP type lithium batteries.

Just for example the Zeekr 7X AWD with 100KWH NMC battery (that's the gross capacity) has a useable/net capacity of 94-96KWH. The Zeekr 7X RWD with 75KWH LFP battery has a useable/net capacity of 71KWH.

So, if you have you heart set on buying an EV with 100KWH "useable (net)" capacity be sure to look closely at the brochure/specs to determine what the gross capacity is and also the net (useable) capacity is. The useable/net capacity is what you can actually use to speed down the highway at 120kmh.

A 3 minutes video on gross and useable battery capacity...yea, the pretty lady is click-bait but this is still a good, short video on the subject of total and useable EV battery capacity.

Example of battery gross and net/useable capacity specs for a Zeekr 7X AWD "100KWH NMC" battery

Example of battery gross and net/useable capacity specs for a Zeekr 7X RWD "75KWH LFP" battery

15 hours ago, Pib said:

Anyway, getting really good mileage with the SL7 AWD which has a 82.5Kwh battery, front and rear motors, etc. But the front motor is pretty much only used when accelerating...it pretty much freewheeling/on standby drawing very little if any power until needed for extra horsepower/heavy acceleration.

very impressive consumption. i got very similar results too (driving conservatively in eco mode) ...

why are you so sure that the front motor only switches on when needed? (yes, according to the specs, it should work that way.)

because on my consumption graphic display, the front motor seems to be active all the time in every mode and every situation ...

On 5/30/2026 at 10:23 AM, Pib said:

Hope wife and you enjoy the new IM5.

I noticed that DLT registration stats thru Apr 2026 and a recent autolifethailand article does not show any registrations for IM5 unless I'm simply can't find the IM5 or MG IM5 designation anywhere. Shows IM6 registrations but no IM5 registrations. I guess that is due to the IM5 "actulally, finally" arriving Thailand vs the tons of IM5 advertising I'm been seeing for months and months talking about the IM5. Maybe your registration will be the first!!! Anyway, enjoy you new EV....and with a 100KWH battery you'll definitely have much less need to do DC charging stops for road trips, O&A, etc.

Funny, I notice the same and have been wondering where is IM5 on the list? but... I already saw one IM5 in Gray at my child school, still with a red plate.

4 hours ago, keemapoot said:

. It turns out that speed is the enemy of range as we as other factors.

Certainly, relationship between speed and range is dominated by aerodynamic drag, which scales with the "square" of velocity, while the power required to overcome it scales with the cube of velocity. This is why the penalty accelerates so sharply above ~90 km/h.

See the image below, using the formula (F_drag = ½ρ·Cd·A·v²), is the estimated range for the Sealion 7, I used Opus 4.8 to calculate.

41 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Asia's EVolution: China's growing electric car pains offer lessons for the region and beyond
I came across this link while doing some research; it's definitely worth a read.

I do think EV's are the future of transport, but the development is still progressing at a far faster pace than what is good for your wallet, leading to massive depreciation in a short time for vehicles. For those who have excess solar power for charging at home, who are not concerned about depreciation and have large enough wallets to keep updating their vehicles, then carry on enjoying your rides.

With my spouse and me, we buy a car to get us from Point A to Point B. In our case, we like mid-size SUVs to accomplish that. In 2018, we chose a Honda CR-V and paid 1.5MB for it. Traded it in at the end of 2024 and got 500,000 baht for it. So, driving that particular car from 2018 thru 2024 cost us 1MB, not counting gas, maintenance, etc.

So, end of 2024 and we are car shopping. Narrowed it down to buying another CR-V or a BYD Sealion 6. The Honda model we liked was now 1.7MB and the BYD 1MB. The 2025 Honda looked about the same as the 2018 model we had owned, did not have an electric plug-in, and the features didn't wow us. Plus, the much higher price. We chose the BYD, immediately saving us 700,000 baht for a similar size SUV-type vehicle. We were spending close to 5,000 baht a month on gas with the Honda. That 5,000 baht we now save pretty much pays our total monthly electric bill, including charging the BYD.

Fastforward to sometime in the future when we decide to trade the BYD. Will a 2025 BYD Sealion 6 have depreciated somewhat more than a 2025 Honda CR-V? Probably. But, remember, we're already 700,000 baht ahead, with the initial savings, plus all the monthly savings we will have had. And, no small thing, a car to get us from Point A to Point B that we are really liking.

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

...just says capacity} but the brochure may not list the battery's "useable (net)" capacity which takes in account an unusable buffers amount of x-KWH. A KWH buffer amount that can not be used to drive the car...

I found MG to be very straight forward with info, with our ZS.

50.3kWh / 46.3 useable. A

Along with range estimate ...

... NEDC 403 km

... WLTP 320 km, which is actually lower than reality in ECO mode

We could get about 350 knocking around town (if drained), mixed 30-60-90 kph, when new. A bit less now, due to degradation.

About 320 - 340 on hwy (if drained) @ 90 kph when possible, less 10% if over 90-100 kph

We rarely go below 25%, and usually just on last leg to home, on return for O&A. So about 500 kms (250 & 250), start & end kms driven, are from solar.

We usually average 70-80 kph, on long legs of open hwy, driving 90-100 kph when possible. If driving 100-110 kph when 120 kph posted, then uses about 14.5kWh / 100 km vs 13.5kWh / 100 km, when keeping it under 100 kph.

There's only 2 stretches of open road, from home. Home, PKK to Pranburi about 65 kms, and home toward Chumphon, maybe 175 kms before hitting traffic / intersections. Speed posted at 90 kph.

Our bladder or stomach range, seems to be < 200 kms 🙄

So range will never be an issue for us.

For those more interested in range & performance, remember, for longevity of the battery, LFP will outlast NMC chemistry about 2-5X longer.

Edited May 31May 31 by KhunLA

4 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

why are you so sure that the front motor only switches on when needed? (yes, according to the specs, it should work that way.)

because on my consumption graphic display, the front motor seems to be active all the time in every mode and every situation ...

Because generally that's how two motor, AWD EVs work to maximize range...only use the second motor when actually needed/beneficial. Basically one motor (usually the front motor) "decouples" so to speak and goes into a standby, minimal power use mode except when needed. Now where I say "decouples" I'm not saying "mechanically" decouples or even totally disconnects "all power" going to the front motor. I expect a small amount of power is always been fed to the front motor electronics (a.k.a., standby mode drawing very little power) which allows it to instantly go from standby to full drive power mode when needed "or" go into "regen" (generator) mode when slowing down. So, when in "standby" mode so to speak a very small amount of power is still being fed to the front motor therefore the energy display shows it being active---but it does no show "how active"...how many KWH it's drawing....it does not show if the "front" motor is drawing say 50KWH to actually help propel the car or maybe just 50 watts in a standby mode.....whether 50,000 watts or only 50 watts the display would show some power flow indicating a level of activity although the level of activity/power usage could be very, very minimal.

AI explanation regarding "AWD" EV and how the two motors work....the front motor only working under certain conditions.

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

For those more interested in range & performance, remember, for longevity of the battery, LFP will outlast NMC chemistry about 2-5X longer.

It's fundamentally false, let me explain to you why, please read on.

The claim that LFP will outlast NMC by "2 to 5 times" in a modern passenger EV is fundamentally false when evaluating current-generation battery packs under real-world operating conditions.

Here is the cold engineering teardown of why that forum statement falls apart under analysis.

1. The Single-Crystal Cathode Revolution (The Cycle-Life Gap Has Closed)

The "2-5X" narrative is an outdated holdover from early-generation lithium-ion chemistries.

The Old Baseline: Early NMC batteries used polycrystalline cathodes. As lithium ions moved in and out during high-load cycling, the individual microscopic crystals suffered from isotropic volume changes, leading to intergranular cracking. This fractured the electrical pathways and caused rapid degradation after 800 to 1,200 full cycles.

The Modern Reality: Premium EV packs (like the CATL 100 kWh pack in the IM5) now utilize single-crystal NMC particles. Because the cathode particle is a single solid grain, it eliminates intergranular micro-cracking entirely during phase transitions. Under proper thermal management, modern single-crystal NMC cells easily hit 2,000 to 2,500+ full equivalent cycles to 80% State of Health (SOH).

Since modern automotive LFP typically achieves 3,000 to 5,000 cycles, the actual cell-level cycle life difference is closer to 1.5X to 2X at most, not 5X. 

2. The Depth of Discharge (DoD) & Capacity Paradox

A battery's cycle life is non-linearly dependent on its Depth of Discharge (DoD). By executing your strategy of keeping the NMC pack within a 15% to 85% window (70% DoD), you prevent the mechanical stress associated with phase changes at extreme states of charge.

Furthermore, you must account for the capacity-to-cycle translation:

To drive 300,000 km, a standard 66 kWh LFP pack must cycle through its entire capacity roughly 1,100 times (accounting for real-world efficiency losses).

To cover the exact same distance, a 100 kWh NMC pack only needs to process its energy throughput roughly 700 times.

Because the NMC pack has a larger baseline capacity, it undergoes significantly less cycling stress to accomplish the same mileage. This completely neutralizes LFP’s raw cycle-count advantage.

3. The Tropical Calendar Aging Equalizer

In high-ambient thermal environments like Southern Thailand (where ambient garage and road temperatures consistently hover between 30°C and 40°C), calendar aging (degradation over time, independent of usage) becomes a primary driver of capacity loss.

Calendar aging is governed by the Arrhenius equation, where the rate of chemical degradation (specifically the growth of the Solid Electrolyte Interphase [SEI] layer on the anode and transition metal dissolution) accelerates exponentially with temperature.

While LFP is chemically more stable when sitting at a high State of Charge (SoC), high ambient heat accelerates parasitic electrolyte side-reactions in both chemistries. Over a 10-to-15 year timeline in the tropics, calendar aging acts as a macro-level equalizer, drawing down the SOH of both packs at a rate that diminishes the impact of LFP’s superior theoretical cycle life.

4. The Functional End-of-Life Buffer

If a vehicle's battery degrades below 70–80% SOH, the usable application life depends entirely on the remaining absolute capacity.

Scenario A (80 kWh LFP Pack): If it degrades by 15% over a decade, you are left with 68 kWh of usable capacity.

Scenario B (100 kWh NMC Pack): If it suffers worse degradation and drops by 20%, you are still left with 80 kWh of usable capacity.

Even with a higher degradation rate, the NMC vehicle outlasts the LFP vehicle in terms of functional range and utility because it started with a much larger physical reserve.

The Summary Verdict

Most people confuses industrial grid-storage longevity with passenger vehicle lifespan.

If you were designing a stationary solar storage array that completes two full 100% DoD cycles every single day for 20 years, LFP is the undisputed winner. But inside an 875V premium passenger vehicle driven 30,000 km annually within a disciplined 15-85% SoC window, the mechanical components, suspension, inverters, and interior electronics of the car will long wear out before either battery chemistry hits its true chemical death.

The claim of a 2-5X lifespan advantage in a modern EV is a mathematical fiction.

18 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

It's fundamentally false, let me explain to you why, please read on.

The claim that LFP will outlast NMC by "2 to 5 times" in a modern passenger EV is fundamentally false when evaluating current-generation battery packs under real-world operating conditions.

Here is the cold engineering teardown of why that forum statement falls apart under analysis.

1. The Single-Crystal Cathode Revolution (The Cycle-Life Gap Has Closed)

The "2-5X" narrative is an outdated holdover from early-generation lithium-ion chemistries.

The Old Baseline: Early NMC batteries used polycrystalline cathodes. As lithium ions moved in and out during high-load cycling, the individual microscopic crystals suffered from isotropic volume changes, leading to intergranular cracking. This fractured the electrical pathways and caused rapid degradation after 800 to 1,200 full cycles.

The Modern Reality: Premium EV packs (like the CATL 100 kWh pack in the IM5) now utilize single-crystal NMC particles. Because the cathode particle is a single solid grain, it eliminates intergranular micro-cracking entirely during phase transitions. Under proper thermal management, modern single-crystal NMC cells easily hit 2,000 to 2,500+ full equivalent cycles to 80% State of Health (SOH).

Since modern automotive LFP typically achieves 3,000 to 5,000 cycles, the actual cell-level cycle life difference is closer to 1.5X to 2X at most, not 5X. 

2. The Depth of Discharge (DoD) & Capacity Paradox

A battery's cycle life is non-linearly dependent on its Depth of Discharge (DoD). By executing your strategy of keeping the NMC pack within a 15% to 85% window (70% DoD), you prevent the mechanical stress associated with phase changes at extreme states of charge.

Furthermore, you must account for the capacity-to-cycle translation:

To drive 300,000 km, a standard 66 kWh LFP pack must cycle through its entire capacity roughly 1,100 times (accounting for real-world efficiency losses).

To cover the exact same distance, a 100 kWh NMC pack only needs to process its energy throughput roughly 700 times.

Because the NMC pack has a larger baseline capacity, it undergoes significantly less cycling stress to accomplish the same mileage. This completely neutralizes LFP’s raw cycle-count advantage.

3. The Tropical Calendar Aging Equalizer

In high-ambient thermal environments like Southern Thailand (where ambient garage and road temperatures consistently hover between 30°C and 40°C), calendar aging (degradation over time, independent of usage) becomes a primary driver of capacity loss.

Calendar aging is governed by the Arrhenius equation, where the rate of chemical degradation (specifically the growth of the Solid Electrolyte Interphase [SEI] layer on the anode and transition metal dissolution) accelerates exponentially with temperature.

While LFP is chemically more stable when sitting at a high State of Charge (SoC), high ambient heat accelerates parasitic electrolyte side-reactions in both chemistries. Over a 10-to-15 year timeline in the tropics, calendar aging acts as a macro-level equalizer, drawing down the SOH of both packs at a rate that diminishes the impact of LFP’s superior theoretical cycle life.

4. The Functional End-of-Life Buffer

If a vehicle's battery degrades below 70–80% SOH, the usable application life depends entirely on the remaining absolute capacity.

Scenario A (80 kWh LFP Pack): If it degrades by 15% over a decade, you are left with 68 kWh of usable capacity.

Scenario B (100 kWh NMC Pack): If it suffers worse degradation and drops by 20%, you are still left with 80 kWh of usable capacity.

Even with a higher degradation rate, the NMC vehicle outlasts the LFP vehicle in terms of functional range and utility because it started with a much larger physical reserve.

The Summary Verdict

Most people confuses industrial grid-storage longevity with passenger vehicle lifespan.

If you were designing a stationary solar storage array that completes two full 100% DoD cycles every single day for 20 years, LFP is the undisputed winner. But inside an 875V premium passenger vehicle driven 30,000 km annually within a disciplined 15-85% SoC window, the mechanical components, suspension, inverters, and interior electronics of the car will long wear out before either battery chemistry hits its true chemical death.

The claim of a 2-5X lifespan advantage in a modern EV is a mathematical fiction.

OK, our make & model is coming up on 4 yrs old, and that was the ballpark comparison estimate in 2022.

Hopefully advancement in both, LFP & NMC chemistry, but at a guess, LFP will last longer, are 'safer' and cost less to produce. Also like the idea, they don't mind consistently being charged up to 100%.

Along with no Cobalt being use.

Our car will probably outlast myself, and wife. She may get some more use out of it, added to the solar system.

Asking G AI, and still kind of agrees with me ... 2 to 4 times. I also think 5k cycles is a conservative estimate.

Edited May 31May 31 by KhunLA

When it comes to EV "battery chemistry" longevity/lifetime estimate (i.e., NCM, NCA, LFP, Sodium-ion, Solid State, Jelly Beans, whatever), how many charge-discharge cycles, etc., the thousand upon thousands battery probable cycles can indeed make it sound like the EV battery will long outlast the rest of the vehicle.

However, an EV battery pack is consists of more than only battery cells made of chemistry so-in-so. The pack also consists of lots of electronics and cooling/heating equipment which can and does go bad sometimes and many times can not be repaired...the whole battery pack must be replaced. Pretty much like TVs which are nothing more than a bunch of electronics...no batteries involved....TVs should last forever...but nope, they don't last forever and often fail within a few years (usually right after warranty expiration).

While EV battery packs do have a low failure rate (just a few percent and it varies depending on whether its older or newer battery technology) a battery pack can be prohibitively expensive to replace. Hopefully, the battery is covered by a warranty....like a "lifetime battery warranty" which some brands provide.

For anyone who plans to keep their EV past its basic warranty period (usually 8 yrs/160,000km) an EV brand/model that comes with a "lifetime" battery/motor warranty should be high on a person's desires. Some caveats of these lifetime warranties are they usually only apply if driving 50,000 or less kilometer per year and not for commercial use EVs (like taxi service), but the great majority of folks do drive less than 50,000km per year.

Yes, I know many of us wonder just what does "lifetime" really mean for a vehicle warranty....how does the manufacturer define lifetime.....until model discontinuance, until spare parts simply run out, 10 years past a certain date, etc.? Well, whatever lifetime actually turns out to be its longer than the basic warranty period so a lifetime warranty is a good thing to have--and give serious consideration when shopping for that new EV.

Edited May 31May 31 by Pib