Question about Fingerprint Scanners at Immigration..

[Captain Monday]

I don't know anything about the Thai land border have not crossed one in about 18 years. 

 

Just changing name does not work. Of course her fingerprints are on record. Every airport has the hand scanners they have not been used in my experience every time coming and going, but yes the scans are usually undertaken. I assume they are linked to a database of those personas non grata. Did she have a full facial plastic surgery completed? There are cameras everywhere in Thai airports. there are random checks. There are Smart Cars.

 

Your friend needs to wait out her ban or find another place for a  "holiday". Lucky if she gets caught at the airport and sent home. If she was nabbed inside the country illegal entry is a serious offense sure to be sent to Immigration Detention for  prosecution

[FritsSikkink]

22 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

I'm not really interested in opinions... really I want answers to the questions..

You would be doing illegal actions and it is not allowed to talk about that here.

[BTB1977]

Anytime you do something illegal there is a chance of going to jail. You worry about finger print? What about face recognition by imagination that has been  in place for years. 

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

I hope they will not be allowed to enter!

 

It's been discussed/mentioned many times before that changing your name doesn't mean you can automatically enter Thailand or any country.

 

Most/ maybe all counties allow databases of passport holders to be canned by other countries.

 

I know for a fact that if I was to look at your new name on the passport database for xxxxx country it would also alert me to the fact that this person previously used the name of hhhhh  rrrrrr. 

 

 

Entirely possible -- plus changing ones name legally is complicated and time consuming.

 

OP, this person should wait for the 3 year ban to end before attempting to enter Thailand.  There is no alternative that does nto entail risk, and it makes no sense to do this simply for a holiday.

[FritsSikkink]

15 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

How certain are you that the fingerprint scanners dont actually perform a database match against all known banned people? 

What makes you sure that the scanners only save the file, and nothing more ?

The OCR code in your passport is being checked against multiple databases (terrorist, police, fraud,...)

[NativeBob]

Once I tried to explain why you shouldn't warm/heat up canned food in microwave oven. After about half-hour I found out that nice and friendly person was actually [hm] not that educated to grasp my basic physics arguments. It was terms from another planet in another planet's language.

Yes, there IS some fat and very expensive server [computer with ultimate power] at Chaengwattana Road and its "mirror" at CAT building in Bangrak. Those are processing scanned pictures of your fingers with "significant" points and curves.

Software was "donated" by [guess who] americans, developed in the Middle East by some friendly folks, but rumors are it was actually outsourced to hardworking people in Maharashtra.

Yes, you can run queries between those "rendered" images, but [sorry] not in real time and not through multiple [thousands] terminals all over the country. 

And final peach on the cactus:

The main database of arrivals-departures [land-air-banana boat] is NOT yet "interlinked" with Ministry of Interior data and that fancy "hummus-massala" soft.

[bradiston]

Final post in this thread from me. I took my own advice and went down to Jomtien IO to see if I could find out just how a person could find out if they were still persona non grata. Well, the truth is, they wouldn't even give me a queue ticket after I told them what I was enquiring about. And without that, no IO would talk to me. Seems a totally taboo subject. I had a photo of the bloke's original passport but they simply ignored it and flicked a ticket at me. Hmmm. Not really a very edifying experience.

[SAFETY FIRST]

4 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Final post in this thread from me. I took my own advice and went down to Jomtien IO to see if I could find out just how a person could find out if they were still persona non grata. Well, the truth is, they wouldn't even give me a queue ticket after I told them what I was enquiring about. And without that, no IO would talk to me. Seems a totally taboo subject. I had a photo of the bloke's original passport but they simply ignored it and flicked a ticket at me. Hmmm. Not really a very edifying experience.

If I was you I wouldn't be so foolish. 

 

You may end up getting blacklisted yourself, you may become depressed, suicidal, extremely sad not being allowed back in the country. 

 

Enjoy your stay in Thailand and always stay under the radar. 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by SAFETY FIRST

[bradiston]

14 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

If I was you I wouldn't be so foolish. 

 

You may end up getting blacklisted yourself, you may become depressed, suicidal, extremely sad not being allowed back in the country. 

 

Enjoy your stay in Thailand and always stay under the radar. 

 

Do you work for the NHS? What a strange prognosis. 

[bbko]

I'm just curious if the name change was done solely to try and enter Thailand. And if that person is now reading of facial recognition programs used in Thailand will he/she now try to alter their face?

A comedic tragedy on so many levels. 

[StevieAus]

20 hours ago, Russell17au said:

You seem to miss one important point and that is you are at a busy international entry point where there are lots of camera's around and it would be too risky for any IO there to do anything like what you suggest, it is not a simple local immigration office

My response was intended to be somewhat “ tongue in cheek” however I do not think the cameras would deter them.

[Peabody]

Related question. 

If a person is arrested on entry, at what point does the arrest occur? What happens to their baggage if arriving by plane? How are they transported to jail/court?

 

[FriendlyFarang]

47 minutes ago, Peabody said:

Related question. 

If a person is arrested on entry, at what point does the arrest occur? What happens to their baggage if arriving by plane? How are they transported to jail/court?

 

You will be sent back the way you came, the airline that brought you to Thailand is responsible to take you back out. The airline probably wants you to pay for it, but if you refuse they still have to take you, but they could of course try to take you to court later to get the money from you.

If you need to wait for the flight you will spend the time in a detention cell at the airport. Your luggage will probably be retrieved and checked in for your new flight.

[Peabody]

1 minute ago, FriendlyFarang said:

You will be sent back the way you came, the airline that brought you to Thailand is responsible to take you back out. The airline probably wants you to pay for it, but if you refuse they still have to take you, but they could of course try to take you to court later to get the money from you.

If you need to wait for the flight you will spend the time in a detention cell at the airport. Your luggage will probably be retrieved and checked in for your new flight.

My question is not about refused entry. It is arrest on the basis of a Thai arrest warrant where they want one to appear in a Thai court to face charges.

[FriendlyFarang]

14 minutes ago, Peabody said:

My question is not about refused entry. It is arrest on the basis of a Thai arrest warrant where they want one to appear in a Thai court to face charges.

I'm just speculating, I don't have personal experience, but I guess the IO who gets the notification on his screen calls somebody to assist him, they escort you to a back office, then tell you to wait because they have to check something, and after they have confirmed that it's indeed a warrant for you they will probably call regular police who will take you to their police station for further processing. Somebody will probably also get your luggage, if they forget it you can probably pick it up at the airport once you are released from custody.

What happens after this will probably depend a lot on what the warrant is for. If you forgot to pay a hotel bill on your last trip, or if you are the suspect in a murder case will make quite a difference.

Edited May 12, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[JFHuaHin]

there is a lot of misinformation about what is on the passport chip that can be read.

former names and previous genders are not shown when the chip is scanned.

border crossing with mynamar are the best bet

 

the UK’s biometric passports contain a microchip with a ‘facial biometric’. This is a digitised image of the holders photograph. Various features on the face, for example the distance between eyes, nose, mouth and ears, are digitally coded from the photograph and the information stored on the electronic chip.

The chip also stores electronically, the biographical information which is printed in the passport. It does not contain any information which is not also on the face of the passport. The information printed on the passport can be checked against the information on the chip, which is intended to be harder to forge

[treetops]

4 hours ago, JFHuaHin said:

there is a lot of misinformation about what is on the passport chip that can be read.

former names and previous genders are not shown when the chip is scanned.

Agreed.  The UK and other biometric passports are similar in that the chip contains only the information from the personal data page and the facial biometrics from the photo.

Edited May 12, 2022 by treetops

[BritManToo]

In the western world it takes their topnotch computers 2hrs minimum to search and compare fingerprint records. Which means in Thailand, the best Immigration manage is to compare your name with your saved fingerprint. All they can do is say if you were the same person that previously passed through using this passport.

 

No way are they searching their database for any other different passports matching you.

Edited May 13, 2022 by BritManToo

[FriendlyFarang]

34 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

In the western world it takes their topnotch computers 2hrs minimum to search and compare fingerprint records. Which means in Thailand, the best Immigration manage is to compare your name with your saved fingerprint. All they can do is say if you were the same person that previously passed through using this passport.

 

No way are they searching their database for any other different passports matching you.

But they could do the scan against the database of fingerprints of blacklisted people, instead of all people, which can probably be performed in a few seconds.

[JFHuaHin]

4 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

But they could do the scan against the database of fingerprints of blacklisted people, instead of all people, which can probably be performed in a few seconds.

and with a bit of tweaking, maybe divide the images of fingerprints of banned people into country folders and sub folders for men/women/age range

 

be very fast to scan a sub folder of banned people from 

UK\Men\under50

 

but we are using western logic, knowing Thais they will be trying to scan a folder with 30 million sets of scans with multiple duplicate copies  as many of us enter several times per year

 

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, JFHuaHin said:

and with a bit of tweaking, maybe divide the images of fingerprints of banned people into country folders and sub folders for men/women/age range

 

be very fast to scan a sub folder of banned people from 

UK\Men\under50

 

but we are using western logic, knowing Thais they will be trying to scan a folder with 30 million sets of scans with multiple duplicate copies  as many of us enter several times per year

 

Relational databases, or whatever data storage/software setup they use, don't work like that. You query them using the specific syntax of the programming language, and search criteria. So looking for a passport number, nationality, gender etc is easy. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by bradiston

[JFHuaHin]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

Relational databases, or whatever data storage/software setup they use, don't work like that. You query them using the specific syntax of the programming language, and search criteria. So looking for a passport number, nationality, gender etc is easy. 

But we are talking about comparing two images with finger prints not quite as easy.

 

Unless finger print images can be turned into either data that can be entered in a database.

I'd love know to know how they turn a thumb print into numbers or letters. But think it is unlikely.

 

[FriendlyFarang]

18 minutes ago, JFHuaHin said:

But we are talking about comparing two images with finger prints not quite as easy.

 

Unless finger print images can be turned into either data that can be entered in a database.

I'd love know to know how they turn a thumb print into numbers or letters. But think it is unlikely.

 

After a quick search on Google: Fingerprints are stored as "minutiae codes", a fingerprint usually has 40-100 of such codes.

So it's not as easy as just comparing two hashes with each other, but it's also way less work than comparing images.

Source: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/16502

Edited May 13, 2022 by FriendlyFarang