Cabinet divisions break out over U.K. plan to override Brexit treaty

[RayC]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Incorrect.

 

All the Remainers/Rejoiners/Europhiles and Brit haters love to claim that the UK’s plan to abrogate the Northern Irish Protocol “breaches international law”.

 

When in reality, article 16 of the Protocol specifies that, should the agreement lead to “serious economic, societal …harms or to a diversion of trade, [parties] may unilaterally take appropriate measures.” The EU's insistence on a disproportionate amount of checks is causing these issues. So we can take appropriate measures.

 

A very intelligent clause for the UK to have added. This is what the Government is now seeking to do via legislation.

 

The EU's spitefulness and intransigence are backfiring once again. Still sulking like a dumped teenage girl 6 years after the vote ????. 

 

The UK would be in breach of international law if it unilaterally abrogated the NI Protocol and, by extension, the Withdrawal Agreement.

 

However, it is perfectly entitled to invoke Article 16. Both sides would then try to find a solution. If this is not possible, the matter then goes to the Joint Committee, which is comprised in equal part of representatives from the EU and the UK. If they are unable to agree a solution, the matter is further escalated to an international court.

 

It's unclear to me which international court this is, and what powers of enforcement it might have? (For example, my layman's interpretation is that judgements by the International Court of Arbitration are not legally binding, whereas those made by the International Court of Justice are).

 

The EU is perfectly entitled to apply the letter of the law. The UK government's inability and/or unwillingness to comply with its' obligations is the problem.

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

This might shock you but your liberal use of capital letters doesn't make your posts more believable, quite the contrary.

In about 10 years, when the UK is back in the EU fold, we will all look back on this period of temporary Brit insanity and shake out heads, and historians will in the future probably refer to this time as "The Lost Years".

Looking forward to your next referendum!

 

Why wait? Change your hated Passport now and Stay in EU????????Rumania quite cheap ????????

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just wondering why there are non British/Irish people who live in Thailand and are so concerned about the border between  Northern Ireland and EIRE ?

[candide]

17 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

EU behaviour over NI Protocol clearly in breach of “UK sovereignty” &  “good faith” treaty provisions. 

Not clearly at all

Uk sovereignty: the EU is applying the agreement negotiated. If it is true that there us a breach of sovereignty, it means It's BoJo who breached it by signing the agreement

 

Good faith: the EU is applying the same checks as to any third-party country without any discrimination, in accordance to TWO rules

[baboon]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Nationalist are just people who haven't accomplished much themselves in their life so they need to be proud to be from a certain country as they can't be proud about what they have done themselves.

 

For instance when the Dutch win some soccer or Olympic medals loads of people feel proud to be Dutch then, I never really got that. I mean did they score the goals or did they win the medals? It's misplaced pride and only leads to conflict.

 

Try to be happy in your own life that all we can do. I don't really care where people are from as long as we get along have similar hobbies or ideas (and of course understand each other). 

 

I rather have a friend from the UK even a Brexiteer that likes working out with me then a bar fly Dutch. Its not about where someone is from but how much you got in common.

I couldn't agree with you more. But there is something a little bit special about your English Brexit nationalist. All that talk of battles, the blitz, standing alone - Nigel Farage being a notable example. 

You would think they were the first ones off the landing craft at Normandy to listen to them speak,when in fact they weren't even sperm in 1945...

Edited June 10, 2022 by baboon

[Chomper Higgot]

41 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

English people went to Ireland to grow food and cultivate plantations and they voted to be part of the U.K 

Most were Scottish, and somebody else was already there planting stuff in the very same land.

 

But a nationalist not understanding the history of his own nation is no surprise.

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

EU behaviour over NI Protocol clearly in breach of “UK sovereignty” &  “good faith” treaty provisions. 

That's your opinion. Mine is different. I guess that the legal bods will decide who of us is right.

 

7 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Control of borders & laws

From 1996 to 2014, the UK was forced to enact +/-1.5% of EU legislation against its' will: It comes down to a value judgement i.e. whether you think that regaining 1.5% more sovereignty is worth all this hassle. I don't. I assume that you do.

 

Regarding the control of borders. The UK needs to import labour. It appears to me that we are merely substituting  EU labour for, say, Canadian labour. Again, it comes down to a value judgement. You may think this valuable and worth the ongoing hassle, I don't.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Just wondering why there are non British/Irish people who live in Thailand and are so concerned about the border between  Northern Ireland and EIRE ?

I believe the thread is open to all members of this forum, correct me if I’m wrong.

[BusyB]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And right now they are all experiencing the downside consequences.

 

Except that is, those in NI who are enjoying the benefits of continuing un-interrupted trade with the EU via the NI/SI open border, with the result that the NI economy is outstripping that of the rest of the UK.

 

So much for negative consequences of the NI protocol - there are none, they don’t exist.

 

 

Exactly. 

And that is clear evidence that NI's continued membership of the EU single market and customs union  means the economy is outstripping the moribund and slowly failing back to sick man of Europe UK. It undermines the Brexit case completely and that doesn't appeal to the leavers at all levels.

It also scares the DUP creationist dinosaurs even sillier than they are because it increases the likelihood that NI people of all colors will tend towards union with the Republic and to leave moribund etc UK behind.

Those are the true motives behind the 'renegotiation' of the protocol.

Brexit was an idiotic idea going against the whole flow of history and the costs are only just beginning to show.

 

[The Hammer2021]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

If you are not going to keep your word you should not agree to something. Untrustworthy that what it is. Next time don't trust UK.

 

Hope the EU puts up some sanctions if they do. First you agree to something and later you want to rip it up. Definition of untrustworthy. I hope the EU hits back hard if they do so. 

 

Besides if the Irish want to unite and leave the EU its their choice. 

The Northern Irish you mean?

[LoeiI]

52 minutes ago, baboon said:

And the bonus question: which current British Prime Minister said “There will be no border down the Irish Sea - over my dead body!”

We can only live in hope ????????

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

English people went to Ireland to grow food and cultivate plantations and they voted to be part of the U.K 

They occupied Irish land by force. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bluespunk

[placeholder]

38 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Just wondering why there are non British/Irish people who live in Thailand and are so concerned about the border between  Northern Ireland and EIRE ?

Just wondering where you got the notion that a poster's national origins are relevant to the facts of the case.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

What he said has accountable factual basis.He is not to be lightly dismissed like some emotionally- driven “ no value” Twitter muppet. 

I have shown that EU is not respecting UK or Treaty but you and others are impervious to Reason & Facts, for reasons of emotional political narrative. Life is Bloody Difficult. Get Real. Anyway you are Dismissed. ????

and this is the best you can do.... I know, I know, truth hurts

[placeholder]

54 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

EU behaviour over NI Protocol clearly in breach of “UK sovereignty” &  “good faith” treaty provisions. 

Nonsense. They may make such a claim but according to the terms of the treaty, the validity of such claims is to be decided by arbitrations.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9016/CBP-9016.pdf

Claiming that a violation or violations are clear doesn't make it so. And apparently, that's all you've got. Once again, your claim that nations frequently violate treaties is false. (Unless you want to count rogue nations}

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Nobody has linked it to Empire. Except you. It's all in your mind.

Modern day cloggies are still bent out of shape about our old empire being bigger and better than theirs was. 

[Mavideol]

52 minutes ago, RayC said:

The UK would be in breach of international law if it unilaterally abrogated the NI Protocol and, by extension, the Withdrawal Agreement.

 

However, it is perfectly entitled to invoke Article 16. Both sides would then try to find a solution. If this is not possible, the matter then goes to the Joint Committee, which is comprised in equal part of representatives from the EU and the UK. If they are unable to agree a solution, the matter is further escalated to an international court.

 

It's unclear to me which international court this is, and what powers of enforcement it might have? (For example, my layman's interpretation is that judgements by the International Court of Arbitration are not legally binding, whereas those made by the International Court of Justice are).

 

The EU is perfectly entitled to apply the letter of the law. The UK government's inability and/or unwillingness to comply with its' obligations is the problem.

Boris can't do s..t, if and big if he tries to do anything that will jeopardize NI status the guy from the other side of the Atlantic whom has Irish blood, will cut any and all possible trade deal between US/UK as it stands, the international community doesn't care much about the UK as long BJ is there, the international community knows well BJ doesn't respect agreements

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Boris can't do s..t, if and big if he tries to do anything that will jeopardize NI status the guy from the other side of the Atlantic whom has Irish blood, will cut any and all possible trade deal between US/UK as it stands, the international community doesn't care much about the UK as long BJ is there, the international community knows well BJ doesn't respect agreements

There's been a lot of talk, particulary from the Conservatives, about the benefits that a treaty with the USA will bring. Actually...

 

British economy 'to grow 0.16% at best under US trade deal'

The British economy would be at most 0.16% larger by the middle of the next decade under a comprehensive trade deal with the US, the government has admitted, laying bare the limited benefits from striking an agreement with Donald Trump.

In a Department for International Trade (DIT) document, designed to kick-start post-Brexit trade talks with the White House, the government said the British economy stood to benefit from an “ambitious and comprehensive” trade deal worth a fraction of GDP, equivalent to £3.4bn after 15 years.

Prompting warnings from economists that the benefits would be far outstripped by the losses from crashing out of the EU, the official analysis also showed that a more limited trade deal with the US would deliver benefits to the UK economy worth just 0.07% by the middle of the 2030s, or about £1.4bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/02/uk-says-it-will-not-lower-standards-to-strike-trade-deal-with-trump

[CharlieH]

Reported racial steroetyping post removed.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Just wondering where you got the notion that a poster's national origins are relevant to the facts of the case.

It just seems like an obscure topic for some people to take an interest in .

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

They occupied Irish land by force. 

The English farmers needed protection when the locals became violent 

[Bluespunk]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The English farmers needed protection when the locals became violent 

The colonial occupiers required protection from those whose land they stole. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The colonial occupiers required protection from those whose land they stole. 

That was the Norwegians who went there by force and stole the land  

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That was the Norwegians who went there by force and stole the land  

Oh dear more deflection. 
 

Brian Boru. 
 

Battle of Clontarf. 
 

1014. 
 

Ireland once more free. 
 

Oh and talking of vikings. 
 

https://www.historyhit.com/who-were-the-normans-and-why-did-they-conquer-england/#:~:text=The Normans were Vikings who,the leader of the Vikings.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Oh dear more deflection. 
 

Brian Boru. 
 

Battle of Clontarf. 
 

1014. 
 

Ireland once more free. 

Yes, that was a battle between the Irish and the Norwegians 

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, that was a battle between the Irish and the Norwegians 

Learn more about Irish history…both past and current. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Learn more about Irish history…both past and current. 

I don't have much interest in the subject 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I don't have much interest in the subject 

Or knowledge. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Or knowledge. 

You are going off topic again 

[SunsetT]

20 hours ago, baboon said:

What does that even mean? Proud to have emerged from the vagina of a British woman? I didn't exactly have a choice.

I have been talking with French and German friends who also emerged from French and German vaginas and hey! We seem to get along just fine.

Getting along being the point, despite the poison of the UK press. Let your hate die with you.

Agree totally. Never understood Nationalism!  One's nationality (and religion) is purely an accident of birth.