A French city approved burkinis in its pools. Then the backlash came

[onthedarkside]

 

...

In mid-May, the town council approved the wearing of full body-covering bathing suits, commonly known as the burkini, in Grenoble's public municipal pools. Piolle said there was simply no reason to ban them.

 

The backlash was immediate. In a TV interview, far-right leader Marine Le Pen called the full body-covering swimsuit a threat to French secularism and beyond.

 

"It's a sign of separatism and of the submission of women," Le Pen said. "The opposite of our values and our constitution. This is how is Islamist fundamentalists take over. Victories involving food or clothing may seem innocuous, but are very grave."

 

It isn't just the far right. President Emmanuel Macron's interior minister, a hardliner, called the Grenoble ruling a provocation — and immediately filed an injunction to block it in court. The mayor has appealed.

 

(more)

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1105962389/france-burkini-swimsuit-islamic-women

 

 

 

[Tropicalevo]

Put another way.

I came to live in Thailand.

I love the culture, the food, the people - warts and all.

I accept Thailand's way or I leave.

I do not impose my religion, way of living or the way that I dress upon anyone.

Double pricing, immigration protocols - I accept it all.

Why should one religion have a 'free ride'.

Apologies if I offend anyone out there.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Tropicalevo

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Put another way.

I came to live in Thailand.

I accept Thailand's way or I leave.

I do not impose my religion, way of living or the way that I dress upon anyone.

Double pricing, immigration protocols - I accept it all.

Why should one religion have a 'free ride'.

They are not "forcing" you or anybody else to wear anything. They are wearing what THEY want. What you are doing is forcing your dress requirements on them.

 

Freedom of religion includes freedom to dress how they want. How does it hurt you that they dress in a particular way?

Edited June 19, 2022 by ozimoron

[NancyL]

Have you seen some of the Thai women's swimwear, esp designed for plump older women?  It's practically a burkini, without the headgear and with pants cutoff just above the knee.  Personally, after I got over sticker shock at the price, I discovered I liked the Thai-style old-lady swimwear rather than western-style one-piece swimwear with high-cut legs and a top that exposed the back, too much cleavage and straps that chafed at the armpits.  Thai old-lady swimwear is more comfortable and protective from the Thai sun.   

 

I don't see how any reasonable dermatologist could object to the costume pictured.  It looks like a good outfit for surfing.  Had I worn swimwear like this when young, I wouldn't be seeing a dermatologist every six months to have multiple pre-cancerous areas zapped with liquid nitrogen.

[KhunLA]

Why would anyone care what someone else wears in the pool.  Whether a tasteful bikini/speedo, wetsuit, burkini, or 3 pc suit.

 

Why would a burkini, even need to be approved.  At least 1 person has some common sense:

"Piolle  (mayor) said there was simply no reason to ban them."

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, onthedarkside said:

In mid-May, the town council approved the wearing of full body-covering bathing suits, commonly known as the burkini, in Grenoble's public municipal pools. Piolle said there was simply no reason to ban them.

Correct.
 

Well done that town council.

 

There is absolutely no reason to ban burkinis

 

If people wish to wear them, then so be it. 

[onthedarkside]

Way further down in the OP article, there's an excerpt that at least gives some explanation about what's driving the opposition by some to the city's policy on allowing burkinis:

 

"These women, who both wear the hijab, insist burkinis have nothing to do with Islamist extremism. The mayor agrees. Extremists would never allow their wives to go to a pool, the women explain.

 

But after two major terrorist attacks in France in 2015 and the beheading of a schoolteacher in 2020 — all by self-avowed Islamist extremists — many French people make a connection between religious dress and possible fundamentalism."

 

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

Way further down in the OP article, there's an excerpt that at least gives some explanation about what's driving the opposition by some to the city's policy on allowing burkinis:

 

"These women, who both wear the hijab, insist burkinis have nothing to do with Islamist extremism. The mayor agrees. Extremists would never allow their wives to go to a pool, the women explain.

 

But after two major terrorist attacks in France in 2015 and the beheading of a schoolteacher in 2020 — all by self-avowed Islamist extremists — many French people make a connection between religious dress and possible fundamentalism."

 

 

But the same people don't make the connection between anti muslim extremism and wearing of crucifixes. I'm not saying there is a connection, merely pointing to the absurdity of the of the connection. Any excuse to justify bigotry.

[candide]

In order to show they are neutral, they also authorised women to be topless.

 I wonder (not really) which way Muslim men will be looking! ????

[RichardColeman]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They are wearing what THEY want. What you are doing is forcing your dress requirements on them.

NO, they are wearing what they have been indoctrinated from a young age by Islamic men to wear, you seriously thing that they would wear these things if not brought up with Islam ? The amount of non Islamic women not wearing them should be a clue to that !

[Alcat]

If I turned up at a swimming pool and wanted to wear a track suit and a hat in the pool I would get kicked out instantly ! There are enough germs in a swimming pool without girls wearing clothes that may be dirty. It will kill the chlorine in no time. They should build swimming pools at their mosque !

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, Alcat said:

If I turned up at a swimming pool and wanted to wear a track suit and a hat in the pool I would get kicked out instantly ! There are enough germs in a swimming pool without girls wearing clothes that may be dirty. It will kill the chlorine in no time. They should build swimming pools at their mosque !

That's because those clothes are not purpose made swimming costumes. Any fool can see that the photo shows a purpose made swimming costume. Do you somehow imagine that those costumes are being worn for general street use?

 

42 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

NO, they are wearing what they have been indoctrinated from a young age by Islamic men to wear, you seriously thing that they would wear these things if not brought up with Islam ? The amount of non Islamic women not wearing them should be a clue to that !

Yes. That's just a talking point. The fact is that most of these women DO want to wear those clothes and nobody should stop them. You are advocating forcing them to not wear clothes they want to wear out of sheer bigotry under some misguided notion of protecting them from themselves. It's a dog whistle for anti Muslims. Notice it's not the Muslim community having this debate, it's the far right having their say.

Edited June 19, 2022 by ozimoron

[Excel]

8 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Put another way.

I came to live in Thailand.

I love the culture, the food, the people - warts and all.

I accept Thailand's way or I leave.

I do not impose my religion, way of living or the way that I dress upon anyone.

Double pricing, immigration protocols - I accept it all.

Why should one religion have a 'free ride'.

Apologies if I offend anyone out there.

Agree with you 100% and let's hope what your say does offend, offend so much that they clear off back to where they came from unless they want to conduct themselves in a way that is in keeping with the society where they have chosen to live. 

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, Alcat said:

If I turned up at a swimming pool and wanted to wear a track suit and a hat in the pool I would get kicked out instantly ! There are enough germs in a swimming pool without girls wearing clothes that may be dirty. It will kill the chlorine in no time. They should build swimming pools at their mosque !

Is it not just an extension of a normal swimming costume with added sleeves and leg covering made out of typical spandex or similar costume material? Killing the chlorine is a nonsense justification for banning them.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Excel said:

Agree with you 100% and let's hope what your say does offend, offend so much that they clear off back to where they came from unless they want to conduct themselves in a way that is in keeping with the society where they have chosen to live. 

Do you suppose the society they have chosen to live in wants to enforce anti muslim bigotry on the muslim population? It's only the far right ( a minority) objecting to this.

[ozimoron]

Is this a problem?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YiZYiF-Swimsuit-Protective-One-Piece-Rashguard/dp/B07KVVL9JT

[Excel]

Perhaps you should read a few facts before  posting your normal garbage, it is France that in this thread we are talking about, not a little squat of delusional utopia where you choose to live

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_France#:~:text=The French perceive Islam as,conflicts with the country's values.

[RichardColeman]

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Notice it's not the Muslim community having this debate,

Course not, Islam is a man's religion, run by men, for men, to the detriment of women - as seen by the Taliban's commitment to women. If anything I am surprised the men are not up in arms about them swimming - I also doubt they would approve of them swimming with infidel men !

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

Course not, Islam is a man's religion, run by men, for men, to the detriment of women - as seen by the Taliban's commitment to women. If anything I am surprised the men are not up in arms about them swimming - I also doubt they would approve of them swimming with infidel men !

Where did I mention men? It's clearly a question for Muslims themselves. That's what religious freedom is about.

[placeholder]

It does give a new meaning to the phrase "fashion police".

[James105]

These sound ideal for ginger people.   

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They are not "forcing" you or anybody else to wear anything. They are wearing what THEY want. What you are doing is forcing your dress requirements on them.

 

Freedom of religion includes freedom to dress how they want. How does it hurt you that they dress in a particular way?

"They" in this case is their husbands or the outdated views of the males in a certain religious society so it is forced - the women themselves do not have a choice in this.   The law in this case is (possibly misguidedly) trying to bring the males of a certain religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

It does give a new meaning to the phrase "fashion police".

and "religious police"

[ozimoron]

Just now, James105 said:

These sound ideal for ginger people.   

"They" in this case is their husbands or the outdated views of the males in a certain religious society so it is forced - the women themselves do not have a choice in this.   The law in this case is (possibly misguidedly) trying to bring the males of a certain religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  

The law is allowing them to wear what they choose. It's the far right doing the kicking and screaming.

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Course not, Islam is a man's religion, run by men, for men, to the detriment of women

That description covers all religions.

[James105]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The law is allowing them to wear what they choose. It's the far right doing the kicking and screaming.

No, it is not.   This is allowing misogynists to hide behind religion in order to treat females as lesser beings to the men.   Sometimes the law needs to get involved so that everyone can be treated equally and fairly, regardless of the sky wizard they believe in.    

Edited June 20, 2022 by James105

[stoner]

imagine what john lennon would think of this. 

[giddyup]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They are not "forcing" you or anybody else to wear anything. They are wearing what THEY want. What you are doing is forcing your dress requirements on them.

 

Freedom of religion includes freedom to dress how they want. How does it hurt you that they dress in a particular way?

Their country they can enforce any rules they want. See if they allow a woman to wear a bikini in Yemen.

[ozimoron]

Just now, giddyup said:

Their country they can enforce any rules they want. See if they allow a woman to wear a bikini in Yemen.

Did you read the article? The city is allowing the women to wear what they want. Nobody is enforcing anything. The far right is complaining.

[giddyup]

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That description covers all religions.

Are you saying Christianity imposes the same restrictions on women as Muslims?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Are you saying Christianity imposes the same restrictions on women as Muslims?

No, he is saying that men dominate all religions. He did not say the "Same" restrictions.

 

https://theconversation.com/sexism-has-long-been-part-of-the-culture-of-southern-baptists-112209

Edited June 20, 2022 by ozimoron