Thailand and China agree to carry on traditional friendship and expand bilateral cooperation

[RanongCat]

9 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Simply rhetoric. It is about building a larger and larger sphere of influence. Call that Mongolian Empire or not - same principle

Same like US , EU etc ?

[moogradod]

12 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Same like US , EU etc ?

Even beyond that. The difference, however is that the US and EU are formed by consensus to work together and share the same values, not by conquest. At least not during the last 200 years or so. Theoretically it would be the nicest thing to have one single world (see John Lennon) or like in Starship Enterprise.

 

But would you like to live in a complete surveillance state giving you social points based on your obedience to the rules to determine what you can do and what you cannot do like the Chinese are actually planning just right now and have partially implemented ?

[flossie35]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Traditional friendship = exploitation followed by subjugation. Always has for China and always will.

 

Very slowly the world is seeing this.

The west has been doing this for years, not always in a spirit  of friend ship. Can you provide a few Chinese examples? Or do you just make things up? 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

If they don't make the products somebody else will and who knows they might be friends

Good luck with that one ... ????

 

While you actively support China's regime & economy, waiting for that never to happen.

Edited July 8, 2022 by KhunLA

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

A few of y'all need to unplug from MSM.

 

Thailand & China together ... how would that ever be a bad thing.

... Make enemies with the worlds #1 manufacturing country ????

... Top tech and producer of alternative energy components for home

and vehicles.  Compare prices here for solar & EVs to your home country.

... Top supplier of raw materials so Taiwan can make all those components, chips that keep the world functioning.

 

Without China the cost of everything would be way beyond what you are all crying about now.

Spot on. Thailand should look after its own interests. The Chinese are the technology and market leaders in EV and green energies, Thailand should use their expertise to try to green the economy and reduce the energy imports.

 

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/south-asia-buyers-again-sidelined-by-high-lng-spot-prices/

 

Look at what happens with the LNG - Bangladesh, Pakistan and India are facing energy shortages as the wealthier countries outbid them. That's nearly 2 billion people, zero help for them, the gas is now going to Europe for financial and political reasons. Members of the "Commonwealth" - what a joke.

[Misterwhisper]

2 hours ago, DBath said:

I’d prefer to use the term ‘two wrongs…

"Two Wongs" would perhaps be more appropriate in this particular case.

[gearbox]

47 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Even beyond that. The difference, however is that the US and EU are formed by consensus to work together and share the same values, not by conquest. At least not during the last 200 years or so. Theoretically it would be the nicest thing to have one single world (see John Lennon) or like in Starship Enterprise.

 

But would you like to live in a complete surveillance state giving you social points based on your obedience to the rules to determine what you can do and what you cannot do like the Chinese are actually planning just right now and have partially implemented ?

The USSR was trying to export communism around the world, the Chinese don't export ideology. Nobody is going to force you to live the Chinese way. They are interested in trade - to export preferably high value added products, and import preferably low added value products. Same thing many countries are trying to do.

[KhunLA]

53 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Even beyond that. The difference, however is that the US and EU are formed by consensus to work together and share the same values, not by conquest. At least not during the last 200 years or so.

You didn't seriously state that, did you ?  There's still more than a few history books that haven't be scrubbed yet.

 

I'll agree they work together and share the same values, though sad, they don't have any moral value to them IMHO

[RanongCat]

27 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Even beyond that. The difference, however is that the US and EU are formed by consensus to work together and share the same values, not by conquest. At least not during the last 200 years or so. Theoretically it would be the nicest thing to have one single world (see John Lennon) or like in Starship Enterprise.

 

But would you like to live in a complete surveillance state giving you social points based on your obedience to the rules to determine what you can do and what you cannot do like the Chinese are actually planning just right now and have partially implemented ?

Like above says. Gearbox

[DBath]

6 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

"Two Wongs" would perhaps be more appropriate in this particular case.

Or “two wangs” ????

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, DBath said:

Or “two wangs” ????

Swordfighting is not condoned .....

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

A few of y'all need to unplug from MSM.

 

Thailand & China together ... how would that ever be a bad thing.

... Make enemies with the worlds #1 manufacturing country ????

... Top tech and producer of alternative energy components for home

and vehicles.  Compare prices here for solar & EVs to your home country.

... Top supplier of raw materials so Taiwan can make all those components, chips that keep the world functioning.

 

Without China the cost of everything would be way beyond what you are all crying about now.

Naive beyond belief. You really need to get a grip on what the CPC is up to.

[moogradod]

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You didn't seriously state that, did you ?  There's still more than a few history books that haven't be scrubbed yet.

 

I'll agree they work together and share the same values, though sad, they don't have any moral value to them IMHO

Maybe this is a misunderstanding. I did not mean the cooperation between the US and the EU, but the idea of similiarities within each of these blocks.

 

Of course you cannot expect for every country to have exactly the same agenda and this is always an issue when the EU is discussed. But even if you take countries like Hungary with a more than questionable leadership, then the similiarities betweeen all EU countries outweight their disagreements. That is why it is not that easy to participate.

 

To illustrate that clearly imagine the values of Iran or Irak or Afghanistan. It is obvious that those countries would not match the EU scheme. Therefore it can be said that the EU is at least trying to form a uniform block (as much as possible) of both economical and social mutual beliefs.

 

I do not know very much about the US. It is a country which is deeply divided. This is really common knowlege. If I would denominate the 2 blocks how I perceive it it would expose me to life threats from one of the block members. Lets say they are different and leave it at that.

 

In the end you have always as many opinions as there are even individuals, let alone whole countries. But to say that the EU is something that has some logical coherence to a certain degree as has the US or at least trying to have - which is different from other regions of the world, like Russia, China, Islamic countries etc. is not that far fetched.

 

By forming the existing structures a long complicated process was involved from the stoneage to today. A lot of history for both the US and even more for the EU. That does not need to be mentioned.

[moogradod]

46 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The USSR was trying to export communism around the world, the Chinese don't export ideology. Nobody is going to force you to live the Chinese way. They are interested in trade - to export preferably high value added products, and import preferably low added value products. Same thing many countries are trying to do.

IMHO this is not true. They will export ideology sooner as you wish them to do. That is the whole point. It would be nice to see the Chinese could be regarded as a simple economic competitor.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, moogradod said:

A lot of history for both the US and even more for the EU. That does not need to be mentioned.

Your correct, let's just keep it 21st century.   US, UK & NATO invading & occupying sovereign countries for a decade or so, along with a few regime changes.

 

And China is the bad guy in the world.  That's pretty funny.  Some folks need to check their moral compass.  

[candide]

2 hours ago, DBath said:

The US was one of the first countries - if not the first - to block flights from China early on and it’s president was accused of being xenophobic for doing so. Get your ‘facts’ in order

Get your facts right. He was not accused of being xenophobic for partly blocking flights from China (more than two weeks after WHO warned about possible human-to-human transmission risk). That's lame MAGA propaganda.

He was accused of being xenophobic because of the so-called "Muslim ban". 

 

[moogradod]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Your correct, let's just keep it 21st century.   US, UK & NATO invading & occupying sovereign countries for a decade or so, along with a few regime changes.

 

And China is the bad guy in the world.  That's pretty funny.  Some folks need to check their moral compass.  

OK, makes me thinking about it. I would still rather stay in a country under UK, NATO or even US governance than under Chinese governance. Why would I make this choice ? Maybe because they are all the same (bad) and it would not matter ? Somehow ? But it does not feel right. Maybe my moral compass needs adjustment. Or what would you prefer ?

Edited July 8, 2022 by moogradod

[huangnon]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

A few of y'all need to unplug from MSM.

 

Thailand & China together ... how would that ever be a bad thing.

... Make enemies with the worlds #1 manufacturing country ????

... Top tech and producer of alternative energy components for home

and vehicles.  Compare prices here for solar & EVs to your home country.

... Top supplier of raw materials so Taiwan can make all those components, chips that keep the world functioning.

 

Without China the cost of everything would be way beyond what you are all crying about now.

True enough. Think of how much your trainers would cost without Uighur (slave) labor?

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

OK, makes me thinking about it. I would still rather stay in a country under UK, NATO or even US governance than under Chinese governance. Why would I make this choice ? Maybe because they are all the same (bad) and if would not matter ? Somehow ? But it does not feel right. Maybe my moral compass needs adjustment. Or what would you prefer ?

I left USA, because of their governance, for TH, yea, let that one sink in, and TBH, if AQI was better in China, I would have seriously considered retiring there instead of here.   Buy one of them tinker cars for more than 1/2 price off that they sell here for ... beep beep   

 

Though Thailand is a nice place to wind down the years, and close enough to China for the benefits of good trading partners.  Far better than any other place I can think of in Asia or EU.  Beside, TH can feed itself, if it ever hits the fan.

[candide]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

The USSR was trying to export communism around the world, the Chinese don't export ideology. Nobody is going to force you to live the Chinese way. They are interested in trade - to export preferably high value added products, and import preferably low added value products. Same thing many countries are trying to do.

It's true that they don't care about the political regime of the "partner" country, and will never impose conditions such as more democracy, better human rights protection, etc..

However, they do care about geopolitics and clear patterns can be identified (I.e. encircling India). There are usually strings attached on this respect.

They export "support for Chinese policy"

 

Having said that, China is free to have a geopolitical strategy and other countries are free to oppose it.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by candide

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, huangnon said:

True enough. Think of how much your trainers would cost without Uighur (slave) labor?

Sorry to disappoint, but my Nike were 'Made in Thailand', along with my damn expensive sandals.   Comfy though.  Wife makes all my clothes ... so no slave/sweat shop labor there, though she may disagree.

 

Home built with mostly Thai materials & labor.  Possibly all, as I don't read labels for materials.

 

For appliances, I'm an Electrolux fan, and factories in Thailand, so don't go there.   LG & ASUS, so Korea & Taiwan for those.

 

Solar & new car will be Chinese, though the battery ESS is Thai (assembled at least).  No options with those, for same quality & price, and surely they weren't made/assembled with slave labor.

 

Try again .... ????

Edited July 8, 2022 by KhunLA

[candide]

48 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Maybe this is a misunderstanding. I did not mean the cooperation between the US and the EU, but the idea of similiarities within each of these blocks.

 

Of course you cannot expect for every country to have exactly the same agenda and this is always an issue when the EU is discussed. But even if you take countries like Hungary with a more than questionable leadership, then the similiarities betweeen all EU countries outweight their disagreements. That is why it is not that easy to participate.

 

To illustrate that clearly imagine the values of Iran or Irak or Afghanistan. It is obvious that those countries would not match the EU scheme. Therefore it can be said that the EU is at least trying to form a uniform block (as much as possible) of both economical and social mutual beliefs.

 

I do not know very much about the US. It is a country which is deeply divided. This is really common knowlege. If I would denominate the 2 blocks how I perceive it it would expose me to life threats from one of the block members. Lets say they are different and leave it at that.

 

In the end you have always as many opinions as there are even individuals, let alone whole countries. But to say that the EU is something that has some logical coherence to a certain degree as has the US or at least trying to have - which is different from other regions of the world, like Russia, China, Islamic countries etc. is not that far fetched.

 

By forming the existing structures a long complicated process was involved from the stoneage to today. A lot of history for both the US and even more for the EU. That does not need to be mentioned.

Basically the EU is about converging on, generating and applying norms and rules allowing individual people and countries to live side by side and interact peacefully. Voluntarily or involuntarily,  it tends to diffuse these norms and rules outside the EU. It sometimes directly imposes rules outside the E.U., I.e. by linking financial help to the application of some rules, but it mainly works through contagion.

[moogradod]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I left USA, because of their governance, for TH, yea, let that one sink in, and TBH, if AQI was better in China, I would have seriously considered retiring there instead of here.   Buy one of them tinker cars for more than 1/2 price off that they sell here for ... beep beep   

 

Though Thailand is a nice place to wind down the years, and close enough to China for the benefits of good trading partners.  Far better than any other place I can think of in Asia or EU.  Beside, TH can feed itself, if it ever hits the fan.

OK, I have to revise one of my previous statements. Actually I never would like to live in the US. I would not even put a foot on US soil unless someone would kidnap me. Prejudice ? Maybe. Just dont wont to be shot for example.

 

Thailand has not been on discussion and I will refrain from doing so now. To live in China - no way. I know some Chinese and they have a special character. Many of you might have had contact with some Chinese tourists here, too. They are different a bit - I think you acknowledge this.

 

As is the real Chinese food. I have never been there but I have seen documentations. I recall a story that someone wanted to travel to China and he was recommended to bring with him a considerable number of fruit bars in order not to starve in an emergency. He returned and could only confirm. Westernized Chinese food however is delicious. A Peking Duck or Gyoza for example.

 

On the other hand I know Japan very well and this would be a country to live in. They also have cheap Toyotas in abundance.

[DBath]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Get your facts right. He was not accused of being xenophobic for partly blocking flights from China (more than two weeks after WHO warned about possible human-to-human transmission risk). That's lame MAGA propaganda.

He was accused of being xenophobic because of the so-called "Muslim ban". 

 

Pffft...

 

How rich and how typical, everybody who has a differing opinion or - in this case - fact, is either a MAGA or a racist. I happen to be neither.

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, flossie35 said:

The west has been doing this for years, not always in a spirit  of friend ship. Can you provide a few Chinese examples? Or do you just make things up? 

Making things up and deluded distractions are an Anglophone specialty.......

Yet most of their own kind don't have the ability to take notice of the illusion. 

[bangon04]

Laos, Cambodia and Thailand are sleepwalking into CCP ownership. Our children will suffer for our complacency.

[RanongCat]

2 hours ago, moogradod said:

OK, makes me thinking about it. I would still rather stay in a country under UK, NATO or even US governance than under Chinese governance. Why would I make this choice ? Maybe because they are all the same (bad) and it would not matter ? Somehow ? But it does not feel right. Maybe my moral compass needs adjustment. Or what would you prefer ?

This  answer I can agrre with. For me I have no wish to live  in China, or USA, or EU .  Have been for extended stay in US. Made me sad to experience how  bs it is . Have  backpacked through EU. Nver feeling democracy there. Mostly quiet fascist authority in command of devout catholics. Uk  just tired, boring and dirty. Irish Republic nicest of all .

Asia has  problems but is feel more free because not regulated to death (yet) ( For Asian  people)