LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea....ditto for me.   

 

But please think about that "...derived in the previous tax year..." wording in RD743 when the tax year we are all talking about now is tax year 2024 for tax return filing purposes.

 

 

 

as I posted, clarity would be nice.

 

... and I fear the tax advisors/companies have not asked this very specific question to the RD - but rather are offering their own interpretations which may be wrong.

 

I've already spotted where they claimed where there was a tax form for LTR visa holders (suggesting such was for all) when in fact it was only relevant to a very small category of the LTR visa holders.  At best that is a poorly researched misleading answer in the case noted, and at worst it is a deliberate spin to try to scaremonger and drum up business.  I suspect the former - however one does NOT want poor research and/or misleading answers from a tax advisor.

 

Further some tax advisors (such as Q and A noted) claim LTR visa holders need to file a tax return even if remitted income to Thailand is their only income.  We know now from a user who asked the Thai RD on a help line and was specifically told no tax return required.  Again the purported internet (registered no less) tax advisors claimed a tax return required. I suspect they never asked the Thai RD that specific question, but instead came up with their own interpretation.  again ... At best that is a poorly researched misleading answer in the case noted, and at worst it is a deliberate spin to try to scaremonger and drum up business.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Makes no sense, if BOI is trying to sell a new product that will give you a tax advantage over the guy without a LTR visa.... Definitely something lost in translation here. Furthermore, enough folks have queried BOI on this tax advantage -- and have been told ALL remitted assessable income is tax exempt.

But that [tax exemption] remains the case, even if the income must be remitted in a year posterior to the year of earning.

 

Honestly I have given thought to this quite a while ago, and speculated that the tax reform was on the books when the LTR was being implemented, remember it was launched in September 2022 just one year before the first "Remittance tax". Government departments can mull over reform for years, waiting for a political opportunity to implement it. It isn't always the clueless politician who is in the driving seat. So in this case RD 743 was only needed to "grandfather" the old taxation rules on remittance.

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

But that [tax exemption] remains the case, even if the income must be remitted in a year posterior to the year of earning.

 

Honestly I have given thought to this quite a while ago, and speculated that the tax reform was on the books when the LTR was being implemented, remember it was launched in September 2022 just one year before the first "Remittance tax". Government departments can mull over reform for years, waiting for a political opportunity to implement it. It isn't always the clueless politician who is in the driving seat. So in this case RD 743 was only needed to "grandfather" the old taxation rules on remittance.

 

Well - as noted, user Guavaman asked on the Thai RD Help Line did LTR visa holders (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP), whose only income was remitted foreign income, did they need to file a Tax return?

 

Best that I understand was the RD told him NO. (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP).  If there was some caveat that it only applied for income earned in the current tax year, or did not apply for income earned in the current tax year, they would have clearly warned of that caveat.

 

Best that I understand from user Guavaman's post, the Thai RD applied no such caveat.

 

Again, I suspect the tax advisor companies did not bother to ask the Thai RD this very question.

[Ben Zioner]

12 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Best that I understand from user Guavaman's post, the Thai RD applied no such caveat.

Was it TRD, or one obscure officer within TRD? Unless BOI and/or TRD release a formal clarification we will have to wait another two or three years before RD's decisions shed light on this issue.

 

In the meantime remit Y-1 income, early in year Y, so it is easy to prove you've done things by their book.

 

 

[JimGant]

27 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Honestly I have given thought to this quite a while ago, and speculated that the tax reform was on the books when the LTR was being implemented,

Yeah, maybe BOI was advertising: "New rule coming into effect in Sept 2023 -- Por 161 -- but getting a LTR visa will grandfather you under the old rules, of no tax on income remitted in later year." Perhaps, then, BOI should take a course in marketing -- and how subterfuge can be negative in the long run.

[oldcpu]

23 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Was it TRD, or one obscure officer within TRD? Unless BOI and/or TRD release a formal clarification we will have to wait another two or three years before RD's decisions shed light on this issue.

 

In the meantime remit Y-1 income, early in year Y, so it is easy to prove you've done things by their book.

 

 

 

He stated he phoned the RD Tax department tax help line. 

 

He stated the chat lasted at least an hour, and that there were many occasions when the RD official on the phone, had to 'put the phone down' and consult with someone else in the RD to get an answer.

 

He also noted the chat was in Thai language (so presumably nothing lost in translation).

 

To me, that reads to be far more official than a local tax office, and more official than a youtube blog of a tax advisor looking for business who did not also adopt the same or superior approach.

 

It all boils down to - in part - who does one believe?

[JimGant]

32 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

In the meantime remit Y-1 income, early in year Y, so it is easy to prove you've done things by their book.

Yeah, be proactive to the extent possible -- even if their book is in complete disarray, and it's up to you to determine 'worst case.'

[Wagyu]

Just an update and thanks to you guys for all the help and tips!
 

Finally I got my LTR WP visa. I was approved a few weeks ago, but as I don’t stay in Thailand the procedure was stalled. 
 

When I finally arrived on a tourist stamp, I updated my information: address of hotel and updated PDF of my passport and entry stamp. 
 

Next day I could make an appointment on the website. I chose next business day, 8:30. That was fast!

 

When I arrived, everything was easy and smooth. Just don’t forget to print out all required documents from the listing. I almost forgot one document but could do the print out at the hotel. 
 

I payed the 50.000 Baht fee in cash. Officer counted by hand. I got a receipt, and my attendant cut the queue so that my visa issuance was faster than expected. There are lots of other foreigners waiting for other visas.

 

The whole procedure took less than 90 minutes. Officers for LTR visas are exceptionally friendly and speak very good English.

 

 

 

 

[stat]

On 1/29/2025 at 9:58 AM, oldcpu said:

There are many threads on taxation running in parallel on AseanNow.  On one of the threads, user Guavaman reported that they phoned the Thai Revenue Department help line and asked them a number of questions one being:

 

 

That's good news IMHO!

 

     EDIT:  I assume this applies to LTR-WP, LTR-WGC and LTR-WFTP visa holders.

 

It did thou send me off thinking of a hypothetical scenario.  

 

I obtained my LTR visa in 2023.  Lets say in 2033 I elected to switch to a Type-O non-immigrant visa (that is not my plan - I am just speculating).

 

Is money accrued in the past when on an a LTR visa, but left outside of Thailand (in savings) ,  considered by the RD as  income if one has switched to a Type-O visa?

 

I speculate worst case it might be, so i am going to do a book keeping such that I can prove my German pension (which is not protected by the Thai-German  DTA) was brought into Thailand when I was on the LTR-WP.  And show that any savings I have outside of Thailand is from my pension incomes that the Thai DTA exempts from Thai taxation ... ie Canadian pensions (or similar Canadian remunerations for example.  

 

That way I ensure I don't get stuck with paying tax on German pension accrued after 1-Jan-2024 (por-161/162 relevant date) when I bring such into Thailand , as I can show i already brought the money into Thailand.

 

This is all hypothetical, but it may impact my book keeping ,and maybe impact some bank transfers to Thailand.

 

The easiest way IMHO is still to receive gifts from relatives or friends abroad. You could also arrange for a loan you gave someone without interest and he is paying you back month by month. I have no clue how Thai IRS will handle several investments on top of each other over 10 years, my first guess would be they do not care and just look at the last investment. Over 10 years also to be super safe the last year you spend only 180 days in TH and realise all your profits and that year. All your income is then tax free.. or at least should be according to the current laws which of course could change any year.

 

 

[stat]

On 1/31/2025 at 7:25 AM, oldcpu said:

 

Well - as noted, user Guavaman asked on the Thai RD Help Line did LTR visa holders (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP), whose only income was remitted foreign income, did they need to file a Tax return?

 

Best that I understand was the RD told him NO. (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP).  If there was some caveat that it only applied for income earned in the current tax year, or did not apply for income earned in the current tax year, they would have clearly warned of that caveat.

 

Best that I understand from user Guavaman's post, the Thai RD applied no such caveat.

 

Again, I suspect the tax advisor companies did not bother to ask the Thai RD this very question.

The Thai RD Help line will be utter useless in our special situation like the german helpline is useless for me here in Germany with any out of the ordinary circumstances.

[JimGant]

Sent the following, yesterday, to BOI:

Quote

Several of us with Wealthy Pensioner LTR visas have been discussing some confusion about tax exemption. The confusion is with Royal Decree 743, specifically with the boldened language, below:

 

 "Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be
exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-
from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for
assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from
an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and
brought into Thailand."

 

So, my question is: Does the foreign income I bring into Thailand have to be from a previous year before it is exempt? In my situation, foreign income I earned in 2024, was brought into Thailand in 2024, i.e., same tax year. Per the language of the Royal Decree, is this income NOT exempt? Our understanding from BOI was that foreign income, under a WP LTR visa, was exempt, regardless of year brought in.

Your clarification of this matter would be greatly appreciated by me, and many others (this controversy has been discussed in great depth on the Asean Now Forum).

Thank you for your time.

Their answer, same day (nice, timely response):

 

Quote

Please be informed that, under normal circumstances, income derived in the previous tax year (2024) is subject to taxation in the early part of this year. However, as an LTR visa holder, you can be eligible for a tax exemption on overseas income that you bring into Thailand after obtaining your LTR visa.

This exemption applies immediately upon receiving the LTR visa. Therefore, any foreign income brought into Thailand before obtaining the LTR visa may still be subject to taxation under your previous visa status. However, overseas income brought into Thailand after obtaining the LTR visa would qualify for the exemption.

 

Sounds like she's confirming the theory presented by oldcpu, that the "derived in the previous year" simply refers to normal filing procedures, i.e., income from tax year Y is covered in a tax filing in tax year Y+1.

[Ben Zioner]

13 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Sent the following, yesterday, to BOI:

Their answer, same day (nice, timely response):

 

 

Sounds like she's confirming the theory presented by oldcpu, that the "derived in the previous year" simply refers to normal filing procedures, i.e., income from tax year Y is covered in a tax filing in tax year Y+1.

I have stopped pondering over that, I just keep doing as I have for the past 10 years (season dough for a year), and pray god that this will keep me exempt until I die...

 

T.I.T everything is muddy. But I used to scuba dive in Lake Geneva, water got a bit clearer under 5 Celsius though.

[SHA 2 BKK]

6 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I have stopped pondering over that, I just keep doing as I have for the past 10 years (season dough for a year), and pray god that this will keep me exempt until I die...

 

T.I.T everything is muddy. But I used to scuba dive in Lake Geneva, water got a bit clearer under 5 Celsius though.

I used to spear fish for Coral Trout, Barramundi and odds and sods in Northern Australia.  Salt Water Crocodiles, Sharks and the odd Box Jellyfish to contend with - and that’s just in the water. 
 

Thailand “Bureaucracy” however gives me the shivers. 

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Sent the following, yesterday, to BOI:

Their answer, same day (nice, timely response):

 

 

Sounds like she's confirming the theory presented by oldcpu, that the "derived in the previous year" simply refers to normal filing procedures, i.e., income from tax year Y is covered in a tax filing in tax year Y+1.

Jim,

   That's good to hear, HOWEVER, I still can't get over where it says...."derived in the previous tax year."     If the exemption applied to "anytime" after receiving the LTR visa then why does the RD decree even use the "...derived in the previous tax year..." phrase as it just adds total confusion as to whether it applies to "current and previous" years a person has had the LTR visa....or it does "not" include the current tax year which we are in "right now on this 7 Feb 2025.    I sure wish a "RD" rep would clarify things.

 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

53 minutes ago, Pib said:

   That's good to hear, HOWEVER, I still can't get over where it says...."derived in the previous tax year."     If the exemption applied to "anytime" after receiving the LTR visa then why does the RD decree even use the "...derived in the previous tax year..." phrase as it just adds total confusion as to whether it applies to "current and previous" years a person has had the LTR visa....or it does "not" include the current tax year which we are in "right now on this 7 Feb 2025.    I sure wish a "RD" rep would clarify things.

 

 

 

"tax year", tax makes all the difference.

 

And I don't believe BOI was involved in drafting RD 743. Furthermore it is highly likely that BOI's young graduates who answer our questions have filled in a Thai tax return. They have no idea about tax issues, and openly so as the consistently suggest we contact TRD, when a question is asked.

[JimGant]

35 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

They have no idea about tax issues, and openly so as the consistently suggest we contact TRD, when a question is asked.

BOI has never, that I recall, suggested we contact TRD for answers to our questions. I actually imagine they put themselves above TRD, as they work directly for the Prime Minister. Anyway, this is another situation where it's easy, at least for me, to use the interpretation best to my advantage -- and take advantage of the tax exemption promised by the BOI. To do otherwise, and declare all that 2024 income I remitted in 2024, on a tax filing in 2025 -- would be ludicrous.

[Ben Zioner]

21 minutes ago, JimGant said:

BOI has never, that I recall, suggested we contact TRD for answers to our questions.

They did though, some of their answers are quoted here on the relevant threads.

[Pib]

If, repeat, if Thailand has the same definition of "previous tax year" as India does, then regardless of when the income was derived, last year or today, income submitted to Thailand would be tax free for those with LTR Visas (except the LTR HSP visa).

 

If so, then I guess a person must view the TRD Royal Decree wording talking "derived from previous tax year" from the "time" standpoint point of when it's Jan-Mar 2025 Thai tax return filing time the previous tax year would 2024.   Come Jan-Mar 2026 Thai tax filing time the previous tax year would be 2025...etc....etc....etc.

 

https://tax2win.in/tax-glossary/previous-year#:~:text=The year in which income,March of the next year.

 

 

 

AND above is supported by below Siam Legal regarding what "previous tax year" means at the Thailand Revenue Department.  So, the answer BOI LTR gave to @JimGant does seem to mean if I remit money to Thailand today/7 Feb 2025 then it is not assessable/taxable since for those who have an LTR Pensioner, Work from Thailand Professional, or Wealthy Global visa.

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax-for-foreigners.php#:~:text=Thai Tax Year%3A The Thai,must file twice a year.

 

 

[Pib]

@oldcpu

I'm now of the same view as you regarding what "previous tax year" means in the LTR tax royal decree relating to assessable income on a Thai tax return.   See my above post.  Thanks for bringing me back from the dark side.  Cheers.  

[Pib]

Below is that Siam Legal weblink again as it kinda mixed in with text in my post above.

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax-for-foreigners.php#:~:text=Thai Tax Year%3A

 

 

[oldcpu]

On 2/1/2025 at 9:59 PM, stat said:

The Thai RD Help line will be utter useless in our special situation like the german helpline is useless for me here in Germany with any out of the ordinary circumstances.

 

I am not convinced that the case for the Thai RD help line.  Just the opposite.

 

Definitely NOT useless. Very very very far from it.

 

As I already noted, I give that help line far more credence than I do a local RD tax office, and more credence than the youtube bloggers/professional tax advisors who have not asked that specific question of the RD.  Instead the blogger/tax advisors give their own interpretations, and I have already pointed out cases where the tax advisor/bloggers (on their website) clearly were wrong (or best case misleading).