LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Thailand J]

Just my opinion. Property should include investments.

 

[K2938]

14 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Just my opinion. Property should include investments.

Let's see what @Guavaman says about his sources.  He might well be right.  Or maybe this is another area where just nobody knows.

[TravelerEastWest]

13 hours ago, stat said:

So is this correct or was it an error? Thanks!

I am not sure  - we have to wait and see...

 

On Friday I am going to the BOi to get my visa if possible I will ask them.

[TravelerEastWest]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:08 PM, TravelerEastWest said:

Thank you good advice

 

Wednesday it is unless I cant wit then Monday or Tuesday - smiling...

I have my appointment for Friday - they asked me to bring my Thai marriage certificate (I was married in Bangkok)  I wonder why that was asked for? 

[Guavaman]

10 hours ago, K2938 said:

I think you are still quoting from the correct Royal Decree, but the link is incorrect. 

Sorry, here is a  BOI link to 743:  https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal-Decree-743.pdf

[Pib]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I have my appointment for Friday - they asked me to bring my Thai marriage certificate (I was married in Bangkok)  I wonder why that was asked for? 

 

If they endorsement/ (approval) notice is still generic as it was last year they are basically saying if you are currently on a "marriage visa/extension of stay in order for Chamchuri Sq to cancel that marriage visa/extension of stay they will need to see you marriage certificate (Kor Ror 3) and you'll also need a fresh Kor Ror 2 that certifies you are still married. 

 

If by chance you got divorced since your marriage extension of stay was approved but you didn't promptly tell Immigration so they could cancel your marriage extension of stay then you have violated the provisions of your marriage extension of stay and Chamchuri Sq will not cancel it....will tell you to go to your servicing immigration office who approved the marriage extension of stay and resolve the issue of you not notifying immigration you are no longer married.   Basically they will not issue you the LTR visa if you have violated your current visa/extension of stay---this is purely and immigration requirement and not a BoI requirement.

 

So, if you are not currently on a marriage visa/extension of stay but on some other kind of visa/extension then you don't need to show a marriage certificate.  It's just the generic instructions can imply such.

[K2938]

1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

Sorry, here is a  BOI link to 743:  https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal-Decree-743.pdf

Yes, thank you for this.  But if I may ask you, @Guavaman, your conclusion that dividends, capital gains from financial investments and bond interest are not covered by the Royal Decree is something you worked out yourself based on your understanding of the document or this has also been confirmed to you by some tax advisor?

[Guavaman]

11 hours ago, K2938 said:

Let's see what @Guavaman says about his sources.  He might well be right.  Or maybe this is another area where just nobody knows.

 

Apologies, this is a good example of the legal minefield in which we are treading.  

 

The unofficial translation of the Royal Decree No. 743 is the source of confusion. 

 

This shows why we need opinions from bilingual lawyers -- and remember that Thai language is full of assumed nuanced "understoods".

 

The BOI translation uses the word "property". Here is the source of confusion:

 

Royal Decree Issued under the Revenue Code Governing Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemption of Taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022)

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand.

 

The Thai word: ทรัพย์สิน (sapsin) = assets when used in a legal sense.

 

However, the unofficial translation on the BOI website used the English word: "property", which back translates as สินทรัพย์ (sinsap).

 

On the other hand, "Assets" (sapsin) include tangible assets, financial assets, and intangible assets. So the accurate translation expands the types of income from offshore that are exempt under Royal Decree No. 743 to include income from assets (sapsin) situated abroad, rather than property (sinsap) situated abroad.

 

Lesson learned: tread carefully and seek professional help.

[TravelerEastWest]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

If they endorsement/ (approval) notice is still generic as it was last year they are basically saying if you are currently on a "marriage visa/extension of stay in order for Chamchuri Sq to cancel that marriage visa/extension of stay they will need to see you marriage certificate (Kor Ror 3) and you'll also need a fresh Kor Ror 2 that certifies you are still married. 

 

If by chance you got divorced since your marriage extension of stay was approved but you didn't promptly tell Immigration so they could cancel your marriage extension of stay then you have violated the provisions of your marriage extension of stay and Chamchuri Sq will not cancel it....will tell you to go to your servicing immigration office who approved the marriage extension of stay and resolve the issue of you not notifying immigration you are no longer married.   Basically they will not issue you the LTR visa if you have violated your current visa/extension of stay---this is purely and immigration requirement and not a BoI requirement.

 

So, if you are not currently on a marriage visa/extension of stay but on some other kind of visa/extension then you don't need to show a marriage certificate.  It's just the generic instructions can imply such.

Great answer and it makes sense...

 

Thank you.

[stat]

23 hours ago, Guavaman said:

NOT EXEMPTED UNDER ROYAL DECREE 743

(4) Income that is:

(a) Interest on a bond, deposit, debenture, bill, loan whether with or without security, the part of interest on loan after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax, or the difference between the redemption value and the selling price of a bill or a debt instrument issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person and sold for the first time at a price below its redemption value. Such income also includes income assimilated to interest, benefit or other consideration derived from the provision of a loan or from a debt-claim of every kind whether with or without security.

(b) Dividend, share of profits or any other gain derived from a company or juristic partnership, a mutual fund or a financial institution established under a specific law in Thailand for the purpose of providing a loan in order to promote agriculture, commerce or industry; the part of dividend or share of profits after deduction of withholding tax under the law governing petroleum income tax.

(g) Gains derived from transfer of partnership holdings or shares, debentures, bonds, or bills or debt instruments issued by a company or juristic partnership or by any other juristic person.

Thx for your post! So is this an "official" document?

[Guavaman]

23 minutes ago, stat said:

Thx for your post! So is this an "official" document?

 

Sorry, no -- your delayed response jumped over my retraction/correction. The BOI unofficial translation got one word wrong, and the implications are in the gazillions of Baht, potentially.

 

Unless one is bilingual or hires a bilingual legal firm, the devil is in the detailed nuances of translation of legal language. 

 

I made the lazy mistake of reading the unofficial English translation of the Royal Decree without checking it with the original official Thai document . If I had just read the Thai, I would not have been misled by the erroneous translation of "assets" as "property" in Royal Decree 743, and then applying the English term "property" as it appears in Section 40.

 

Unless (and even if) one is fluent in Thai, miscommunication and misunderstandings will arise and will unfortunately play out in ways that result in suffering amongst the various humans involved. 

 

Please do not accept my sharing of info as anything else.  Caveat emptor.

 

 

[stat]

3 hours ago, Guavaman said:

 

Sorry, no -- your delayed response jumped over my retraction/correction. The BOI unofficial translation got one word wrong, and the implications are in the gazillions of Baht, potentially.

 

Unless one is bilingual or hires a bilingual legal firm, the devil is in the detailed nuances of translation of legal language. 

 

I made the lazy mistake of reading the unofficial English translation of the Royal Decree without checking it with the original official Thai document . If I had just read the Thai, I would not have been misled by the erroneous translation of "assets" as "property" in Royal Decree 743, and then applying the English term "property" as it appears in Section 40.

 

Unless (and even if) one is fluent in Thai, miscommunication and misunderstandings will arise and will unfortunately play out in ways that result in suffering amongst the various humans involved. 

 

Please do not accept my sharing of info as anything else.  Caveat emptor.

 

 

Is the translation really depending on one word? Is there any specification in the original document on cap gains or are they just talking about assets/property? Thanks a lot for your work as I am a non thai speaker!

[Guavaman]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Is the translation really depending on one word? Is there any specification in the original document on cap gains or are they just talking about assets/property? Thanks a lot for your work as I am a non thai speaker!

 

Here is the translation of Royal Decree No. 743 from the BOI site: 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal-Decree-743.pdf

 

(For translation purpose only)

 

Royal Decree Issued under the Revenue Code Governing Reduction of Tax Rates and Exemption of Taxes (No. 743)  B.E. 2565 (2022)

------------------------

 

His Majesty King Maha Vajiralongkorn Phra Vajiraklaochaoyuhua  Given on 21st May B.E. 2565 (2022);

Being 7th Year of the Present Reign.

 

His Majesty King Maha Vajiralongkorn Phra Vajiraklaochaoyuhua is graciously pleased to  proclaim that:

Whereas it is expedient to reduce tax rates and exempt personal income taxes in certain cases;

 

By virtue of section 175 of the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand and section 3 (1)  of the Revenue Code as amended by the Revenue Code Amendment Act (No. 10), B.E. 2496  (1953), a Royal Decree is hereby enacted as follows:

 

Section 1 This Royal Decree is called the “Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code  governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022).”

 

Section 2 This Royal Decree shall come into force as from the day following the date of  its publication in the Royal Gazette.

 

Section 3 A withholding income tax rate shall be reduced and charged at 17 percent of income  for assessable income that a foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional who is  granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, receives from an employment of a  company or juristic partnership carrying on targeted industries under national competitiveness enhancement for targeted industries law, investment promotion law, or eastern special  development zone law in accordance with rules, procedures, and conditions prescribed by the  Director-General of the Revenue Department, which, when computed in accordance with  section 50 (1) of the Revenue Code, is subject to withholding income tax at the rate specified in

 

- 2 -

the Schedule of Income Tax Rates annexed to Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code of  more than 17 percent of income.

 

In cases where the assessable income in paragraph one, when computed in accordance with section 50 (1) of the Revenue Code, is subject to withholding income tax at the rate lower  than 17 percent of income, the foreigner who receives the income shall be exempted from  having to include such income in computation of income tax in accordance with section 4 if  such foreigner allows the payer of the income to withhold income tax at the rate of 17 percent  of such income.

 

Section 4 A foreigner whose income is withheld for income tax at the rate of 17 percent of assessable income under section 3 shall, when a tax return is due for filing, be exempted  from having to include such income in computation of income tax, provided that such foreigner  does not claim a refund or credit for the tax withheld, whether in whole or in part.

In cases where a foreigner has assessable income under section 40 (4) and (8) of the  Revenue Code of which income tax is withheld under section 50 of the Revenue Code and is  entitled to choose to pay tax under section 48 (3) and (4) of the Revenue Code, such foreigner  shall be entitled to exemption in paragraph one if such foreigner does not include such  assessable income under section 40 (4) and (8) of the Revenue Code and the assessable  income of which income tax is withheld under section 3 in computation of income tax when  filing a tax return, and does not claim a refund or credit for the tax withheld, whether in whole  or in part.

 

In order to be granted exemption under paragraph one and two, the foreigner shall file a tax return reporting assessable income which is exempted from having to be included in  computation of income tax.

 

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work- from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for  assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from  an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and  brought into Thailand.

 

Section 6 A foreigner who is entitled to benefits under Section 3, Section 4, and Section 5 must meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by  the Director-General of the Revenue Department.

- 3 -

  

Section 7 In the case that a foreigner has applied tax reduction or exemption under this  Royal Decree, and later does not comply with rules prescribed in Section 3, Section 4, Section  5, and Section 6 in any tax year, benefits will be suspended in that tax year.

 

Section 8 The Minister of Finance shall have charge and control over the execution of  this Royal Decree.

  

Countersigned by

 

General Prayut Chan-o-cha  Prime Minister

--------------------

Another translation issue:

 

BOI TRANSLATION:

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work- from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for  assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from  an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and  brought into Thailand.

 

The Thai original reads: 

"... for  assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from  an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and  brought that assessable income into Thailand".  [และได้นาเงินได้พึงประเมินนั้นเข้ามาในประเทศไทย]

 

[tomkenet]

Can it now be concluded that LTR visa holders are tax exempt for foreign capital income like interests, capital gains and dividends remitted to Thailand the same year they are earned?

 

What happens next year is of course another question.

[Guavaman]

14 hours ago, tomkenet said:

Can it now be concluded that LTR visa holders are tax exempt for foreign capital income like interests, capital gains and dividends remitted to Thailand the same year they are earned?

 

The working definition of "property" in Royal Decree No. 743 needs to be clearly defined by RD.

 

Assets vs. Property seems to be a difficult issue, both in Thai & English. Part of the confusion is due to different usages by lawyers and accountants = different systems.

I can tell you this: the only places that the word “property” (ทรัพย์สิน) appears on the PND 90 income tax filing form, it is related to immovable property – rent or sale. You can see in the attached filing forms in Thai & English highlighted in yellow.

 

So for these purposes, i.e. exemption of income tax, if the RD tax officer applies the definition as “immovable property”, then all other types of assets are not included – not exempted.  That depends upon RD.

 

220366PIT90.pdf 271265PIT90 THAI.pdf

[Thailand J]

On the tax form in the section pertaining to rental income,  ทรัพย์สิน has to mean real estate.

I still believe on RD 743 it includes all investments. We'll see.

 

 

It's strange that RD 743 Section 5 mentioned only 3 out of 4 types of LTR visa holders.

 

https://www.apthai.com/th/blog/know-how/knowhow-what-is-asset

 

 

 

 

[Thailand J]

cont.

This is translation of part of what's on the website, ทรัพย์สิน has been translated to "assets" by mistake except at the start and at the end.

ทรัพย์สิน seems not limited to real estate.

 

One step at a time. LTR visas offer tax exemptions which other visas dont, If you qualify, apply.

 

[Misty]

7 hours ago, Thailand J said:

On the tax form in the section pertaining to rental income,  ทรัพย์สิน has to mean real estate.

I still believe on RD 743 it includes all investments. We'll see.

 

 

It's strange that RD 743 Section 5 mentioned only 3 out of 4 types of LTR visa holders.

 

https://www.apthai.com/th/blog/know-how/knowhow-what-is-asset

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's important to note that the LTR Highly Skilled Professional visa is not included in the RD 743 exemption.  LTR HSP visa holders must be employed by a Thai company, and receive a different tax break: a flat 17% tax on their Thai salaries.  That alone can be a very significant tax break at higher income levels.  At those higher income levels, LTR HSP should have less reason to bring foreign sourced income into Thailand.  So perhaps it was reasoned that this is tax break enough for LTR HSP.

[Ben Zioner]

28 minutes ago, Misty said:

Yes, it's important to note that the LTR Highly Skilled Professional visa is not included in the RD 743 exemption.  LTR HSP visa holders must be employed by a Thai company, and receive a different tax break: a flat 17% tax on their Thai salaries.  That alone can be a very significant tax break at higher income levels.  At those higher income levels, LTR HSP should have less reason to bring foreign sourced income into Thailand.  So perhaps it was reasoned that this is tax break enough for LTR HSP.

Seems they put a lot of thought into these LTR visas... Two very different kinds of people on that floor in Chamchuri square.

[BritTim]

58 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Seems they put a lot of thought into these LTR visas... Two very different kinds of people on that floor in Chamchuri square.

 

I agree. I was initially sceptical, but the whole LTR visa program has been well conceived and implemented. I am especially impressed that there has not been a hint of corruption around the whole process.

[SHA 2 BKK]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

I agree. I was initially sceptical, but the whole LTR visa program has been well conceived and implemented. I am especially impressed that there has not been a hint of corruption around the whole process.

The fact I got LTRs for my whole family online and it took 6 weeks without a hint of an agent and associated fees really impressed me.  Staff at the BOI were friendly and professional (so different to those dreaded visits to Cheang Wattana for the kids ED visas).  
 

No 90 day reports and the tax breaks for Foreign Income for the non HSP visas has so far made this exercise one of the best decisions I have made in the 8 years living here.  
 

As noted above I emailed the BOI about the recent RD announcements re Foreign Remittance and they advised there was no change. Let’s hope it stays that way.  
 

My wife found one downside however she purchased an expensive handbag and wanted to claim the duty when we exited the country the other week.  BKK Customs said cannot with this new visa because we aren’t Tourists anymore (we had Elite Visas previously) Anyway will live and learn on that.  

[Thailand J]

I've just found this: http://legacy.orst.go.th/?knowledges=ทรัพย์สิน-สินทรัพย์-๑๐-ธ

From the respectable Royal Society. Interest, dividends and Capital gains shall be exempted if the word on RD 743 Section 5 is ทรัพย์สิน.

[Guavaman]

56 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Interest, dividends and Capital gains shall be exempted if the word on RD 743 Section 5 is ทรัพย์สิน.

 

Thanks for this; a valuable lesson in the art of translation -- don't trust unofficial translations. 

[Thailand J]

I live on investment returns which are not protected by US-Thai DTT, you can imagine my anxiety .Thanks to you I am one step closer to confirming what are exempted, though nothing is certain.

 

Applying for LTR was easy since I have my documents online. I  had submitted  my application on Oct 11 but I did not sleep well with the fact that someone has my US tax returns and investment accounts information. Early next day I signed on and deleted the uploads. The status changed from pending to draft.

 

Middle of this week after I  had submitted redacted documents  the status changed to government agency review in a few hours. The next day I got a request for proof of health insurance and the status had changed to document request. I am going to AXA insurance office on Monday and will get my LTR visa soon. Cheers!

 

 

[K2938]

7 hours ago, Thailand J said:

I  had submitted  my application on Oct 11 but I did not sleep well with the fact that someone has my US tax returns and investment accounts information. Early next day I signed on and deleted the uploads.

Unless something changed, deleting things does not remove them from the servers of the BOI even if it might appear like this. 

[TravelerEastWest]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:45 AM, tomkenet said:

Can it now be concluded that LTR visa holders are tax exempt for foreign capital income like interests, capital gains and dividends remitted to Thailand the same year they are earned?

 

What happens next year is of course another question.

On Friday I got my visa and a BOI  manager told me all was well and not to worry. So anything can change but LTR visa holders should be exempt from the new tax rules.

[Thailand J]

There is no mention of pension benefits such as IRA distributions brought into Thailand in RD 743 section 5, so I ask BOI.

The answer is all income from oversea is exempted when transferred into Thailand.

[Misty]

8 hours ago, Thailand J said:

There is no mention of pension benefits such as IRA distributions brought into Thailand in RD 743 section 5, so I ask BOI.

The answer is all income from oversea is exempted when transferred into Thailand.

Thanks J, it is good to know.  The answers I've received from BoI are also consistent with what you are reporting. 

 

I'm about to switch my LTR visa to the LTR HSP version to save on current year Thai income tax. LTR HSP doesn't offer this exemption, but I don't need it now.  At some point in the future, though, it'll make sense to go back to one of the other LTR versions that exempt foreign source income remitted to Thailand.

[Pib]

12 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

On Friday I got my visa and a BOI  manager told me all was well and not to worry. So anything can change but LTR visa holders should be exempt from the new tax rules.

Congrats on getting an LTR visa inked into your passport.  I know it's a good feeling

 

I got my LTR pensioner visa in late Dec 2022/last year.  For this year/2023 it was truly a good feeling in not needing to reapply for an "annual"  Non-O type visa like I had been doing for 15 years.  And no 90 day address reporting was nice...I will do my annual address report in-person since Chamchuri Sq immigration is not too far from my home.  

 

And the LTR tax benefits is turning out to be a real bonus based on the latest Revenue Dept policy change regarding foriegn income.

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Congrats on getting an LTR visa inked into your passport.  I know it's a good feeling

 

I got my LTR pensioner visa in late Dec 2022/last year.  For this year/2023 it was truly a good feeling in not needing to reapply for an "annual"  Non-O type visa like I had been doing for 15 years.  And no 90 day address reporting was nice...I will do my annual address report in-person since Chamchuri Sq immigration is not too far from my home.  

 

And the LTR tax benefits is turning out to be a real bonus based on the latest Revenue Dept policy change regarding foriegn income.

 

 

I agree with you -you must have been one of the first to get the visa - good work.

 

Why don't you do the annual report online?