What’s behind the tight Thailand-US embrace?

[webfact]

 

By Thai PBS World’s Regional Desk

 

The United States appears to be going all-out to get Thailand on board, ostensibly in its efforts to contain China. Visits to Bangkok over the past few months by senior officials from Washington point to sudden warming in bilateral relations after a few years of indifference.

 

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken concluded his visit on July 10 with the signing of a joint communique on strategic alliance and partnership with Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai, to highlight their strong commitment to bilateral cooperation.

 

The so-called “strategic alliance and partnership” would encompass economic revitalization, defense, security and intelligence cooperation, advancement of public health, people-to-people collaboration, innovation, and environmental sustainability, according to the joint communique.

 

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/whats-behind-the-tight-thailand-us-embrace/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-07-14

 

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[ourmanflint]

The world is being reshaped, Myanmar will join China and Russia as part of new Eastern superpower alliance as will India probably. This leaves Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam in a very precarious situation. 

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, ourmanflint said:

The world is being reshaped, Myanmar will join China and Russia as part of new Eastern superpower alliance as will India probably. This leaves Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam in a very precarious situation. 

And what a mistake it was for the US and Europe to give away their industry to China and import Indians to take over entire sectors of the economy. They literally emptied their cash bank accounts and intellectual property ownership in order to get things on the cheap for a couple of decades.

[steven100]

This so called strategic alliance with the US will certainly trouble and irk China. It will raise questionable concern as to why Thailand is cozying up to the US.  Will China see this as a distrust and therefore instill some retaliatory measure further down the track ?

 

As mentioned, Myanmar is with Russia and China .....  also I believe Cambodia and Laos will side with China.

However,   Vietnam will continue close relations with the US .....    and I am thinking India will stay neutral thereby it may benefit from both sides. 

[topt]

1 hour ago, ourmanflint said:

as will India probably

What makes you say that? 

For example India and China have been at loggerheads for years over a disputed border area.

https://www.mapsofindia.com/my-india/india/top-5-reasons-of-tension-between-india-and-china

 

I think Thailand is doing its tightrope walk in the middle...........

 

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, ourmanflint said:

The world is being reshaped, Myanmar will join China and Russia as part of new Eastern superpower alliance as will India probably. This leaves Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam in a very precarious situation. 

I generally agree. However, my theory of alliances in the near future is more like China, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia (and Russia) on one side, with India loosely in the Western camp. Vietnam, as a long-term antagonist of China, will have to pick sides eventually. (Add Pakistan to the China camp, with Sri Lanka ready to 'flip a coin' on allegiances after recent events.)

 

Sadly, the other mentioned countries in SEA that never had a strong democratic tradition, seem to have been 'bought up' by China. Thailand, of course, verbally still playing in both teams, but factually closer to China now.

Edited July 14, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[John Drake]

15 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I generally agree. However, my theory of alliances in the near future is more like China, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia (and Russia) on one side, with India loosely in the Western camp. Vietnam, as a long-term antagonist of China, will have to pick sides eventually. (Add Pakistan to the China camp, with Sri Lanka ready to 'flip a coin' on allegiances after recent events.)

 

Sadly, the other mentioned countries in SEA that never had a strong democratic tradition, seem to have been 'bought up' by China. Thailand, of course, verbally still playing in both teams, but factually closer to China now.

India has sided with the Russian-Chinese plan to remove the US dollar as the reserve currency and replace it with a Yuan/Ruble global reserve. India is treacherous, a long time ally of the Soviet Union/Russia, and willing to back China against the West in order to leverage an advantage. India has its own big dreams. And its immigrants to the US are much more loyal to India overall than Chinese immigrants are to China. The spigot of Indian immigration into the US needs to be turned off and Indians made to feel better about returning home.

[StayinThailand2much]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

India has sided with the Russian-Chinese plan to remove the US dollar as the reserve currency and replace it with a Yuan/Ruble global reserve. India is treacherous, a long time ally of the Soviet Union/Russia, and willing to back China against the West in order to leverage an advantage. India has its own big dreams. And its immigrants to the US are much more loyal to India overall than Chinese immigrants are to China. The spigot of Indian immigration into the US needs to be turned off and Indians made to feel better about returning home.

Well, certainly, the West cannot rely on India. They are currently making good money reselling the West Russian oil they bought from there cheaply.

[ThaiFelix]

Just the US suffering one of its usual bouts of paranoia.  Its nothing new, just the US deflecting from the usual, and long running troubles within by creating enemies outside for its citizens to fear.

[zzaa09]

Are these goofballs still subliminally referencing the old domino effect? 

Oh dear. They certainly don't get it........yet, they never did.

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

India has sided with the Russian-Chinese plan to remove the US dollar as the reserve currency and replace it with a Yuan/Ruble global reserve. India is treacherous, a long time ally of the Soviet Union/Russia, and willing to back China against the West in order to leverage an advantage. India has its own big dreams. And its immigrants to the US are much more loyal to India overall than Chinese immigrants are to China. The spigot of Indian immigration into the US needs to be turned off and Indians made to feel better about returning home.

Indians treacherous? They still remember who murdered and stole from them for centuries. Two years ago when I was in the Andamans the statues of the Indian freedom fighters tortured and murdered there were still standing tall.

 

Indians are well aware that they are invited into the Quad in order to be thrown under the bus when needed, so good for them to be looking after their own interests.

 

 

[The Old Bull]

Thailand will go with the winner when one is apparent. Now they are keeping their irons in the fire dealing with both sides as there is no apparent winner at this time.

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, steven100 said:

This so called strategic alliance with the US will certainly trouble and irk China. It will raise questionable concern as to why Thailand is cozying up to the US.  Will China see this as a distrust and therefore instill some retaliatory measure further down the track ?

 

As mentioned, Myanmar is with Russia and China .....  also I believe Cambodia and Laos will side with China.

However,   Vietnam will continue close relations with the US .....    and I am thinking India will stay neutral thereby it may benefit from both sides. 

Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia have been bought out and largely taken over by China, Vietnam is holding out against them while Thailand try to play both camps.

China will be spitting feathers at Thailands meetings with the US, expect some reactions in the near future as China demands loyalty from Prayut & Co

[topt]

17 hours ago, John Drake said:

And its immigrants to the US are much more loyal to India overall than Chinese immigrants are to China.

Is this just a personal view or do you have any references as it is not something I have ever heard before - unlike with the Chinese? 

 

[John Drake]

14 hours ago, gearbox said:

Indians treacherous? They still remember who murdered and stole from them for centuries. Two years ago when I was in the Andamans the statues of the Indian freedom fighters tortured and murdered there were still standing tall.

 

Indians are well aware that they are invited into the Quad in order to be thrown under the bus when needed, so good for them to be looking after their own interests.

 

 

Who would that be exactly? Not the United States, which never colonized, brutalized, or murdered Indians. That would be the British. And the British are a very junior member of relatively small clout in the so-called Quad. The treachery to which I refer is Indian actions against the United States, siding with Russia and China to displace the dollar as the reserve currency, siding with Russia and China against Ukraine, and siding with Russia in weapons procurement, and all the while flooding the US with their citizens and demanding the right to monopolize entire categories of visas. 

[Dcheech]

There is no tight US Thailand relations. That is all pro gov media speak. It makes them happy to claim it, say it. Oh those tricky Thais. Antony Blinken is just doing his job, both he and the Thai government know the underlying realities, even if the 'approved media' likes to gleefully burble nonsense. 

 

 

[HaoleBoy]

21 hours ago, John Drake said:

And what a mistake it was for the US and Europe to give away their industry to China and import Indians to take over entire sectors of the economy. They literally emptied their cash bank accounts and intellectual property ownership in order to get things on the cheap for a couple of decades.

All in the name of corporate greed.  IBM gave their big 370 machines to companies in China just to get a foothold there - next HP, MS and others followed suit ...

 

Then these companies complained to the US Gov to stop the IP problems.  It was the company problems to start with and their basic corporate greed.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, HaoleBoy said:

All in the name of corporate greed.  IBM gave their big 370 machines to companies in China just to get a foothold there - next HP, MS and others followed suit ...

 

Then these companies complained to the US Gov to stop the IP problems.  It was the company problems to start with and their basic corporate greed.

Twenty five years ago, I remember a story (I think it was Goodyear) which had just built an entirely new factory. Six months later it was sold and literally dismantled and sent to China. This has been going on for some time. Corporate greed combined with fantastical socio-economic political theories that China would "transform" into a modern, democratic state. 

[HaoleBoy]

19 hours ago, John Drake said:

And its immigrants to the US are much more loyal to India overall than Chinese immigrants are to China. The spigot of Indian immigration into the US needs to be turned off and Indians made to feel better about returning home.

A lot of what you say is true, but I feel you have this backwards about Chinese / India immigrants.  The India immigrants I knew in the tech world would not go back to live in India and had a hard time going back to visit family there.

 

The Chinese in tech I always felt they were more loyal to their mother country.  Huwei engineers and others.

 

Keep in mind that regarding "tech" workers most have finished graduate degrees in the US.  And only the very top 1-2% of graduate students from China / India end up going to US graduate programs.

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

A lot of what you say is true, but I feel you have this backwards about Chinese / India immigrants.  The India immigrants I knew in the tech world would not go back to live in India and had a hard time going back to visit family there.

 

The Chinese in tech I always felt they were more loyal to their mother country.  Huwei engineers and others.

 

Keep in mind that regarding "tech" workers most have finished graduate degrees in the US.  And only the very top 1-2% of graduate students from China / India end up going to US graduate programs.

I'm not happy with either group. If I could select a nationality to give preference to it would be Mexicans. 

[VinnieK]

Thailand is playing both sides.

They will never choose one or the other.

[HaoleBoy]

5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I'm not happy with either group. If I could select a nationality to give preference to it would be Mexicans. 

I think 1 way to stop some of the "tech" immigration is to cutoff the piggy-back immigration; the ability that these tech workers can bring their parents and other family over after they have gotten their green-cards.

 

The Mexicans are needed in almost every state doing jobs most Americans will not do - working in the fields, slaughter houses, mowing lawns, maids and janitors ...

[GinBoy2]

This is a real life Game of Thrones.

 

India is obviously the wild card, yet I see them gravitating to the West given their various border issues with China, not like they haven't had a few wars!

 

As for Thailand, they will sell their soul faster than a hooker.s underwear, so right now they are in the Western court, but that could change in a heartbeat dependent on the punters pocketbook

[gearbox]

15 hours ago, John Drake said:

Who would that be exactly? Not the United States, which never colonized, brutalized, or murdered Indians. That would be the British. And the British are a very junior member of relatively small clout in the so-called Quad. The treachery to which I refer is Indian actions against the United States, siding with Russia and China to displace the dollar as the reserve currency, siding with Russia and China against Ukraine, and siding with Russia in weapons procurement, and all the while flooding the US with their citizens and demanding the right to monopolize entire categories of visas. 

Why that would be treacherous? India owes you nothing. If it is not in your interest to take Indians jus don't give them visas. However looking at the Sillicon valley innovators it is clear to me who creates more value for US,  and that's not the low class emigrated to Thailand.

[John Drake]

11 hours ago, gearbox said:

Why that would be treacherous? India owes you nothing. If it is not in your interest to take Indians jus don't give them visas. However looking at the Sillicon valley innovators it is clear to me who creates more value for US,  and that's not the low class emigrated to Thailand.

Innovators? Did an Indian create Twitter? Microsoft? Google? IBM? Adobe? They create little or nothing but work their way into management through obsequious behavior until gaining power, then show their real face. How much innovation and improvement have Indian CEOs made since being in place, other than doing stock buybacks, fattening their salaries, outsourcing jobs back to India, and censoring speech. I don't trust them in any "Quad" and wouldn't have them, no matter what. The US should reorient towards Pakistan the way it used to and shut off India entirely.

[ThaiFelix]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:28 AM, topt said:

Is this just a personal view or do you have any references as it is not something I have ever heard before - unlike with the Chinese? 

 

Not sure about the current generation, but I am sure most older Chinese consider China as home no matter where they are.

[topt]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

The US should reorient towards Pakistan the way it used to and shut off India entirely.

Why - what does Pakistan really offer?

Apart from militant Islam and barrel loads of jihadists......supposedly "supported" by the Pakistani intelligence service. 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, John Drake said:

Did an Indian create Twitter? Microsoft? Google? IBM? Adobe?

No, but they created ZERO and quickly applied it to tipping!

[arithai12]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:45 PM, John Drake said:

Innovators? Did an Indian create Twitter? Microsoft? Google? IBM? Adobe? They create little or nothing but work their way into management through obsequious behavior until gaining power, then show their real face. How much innovation and improvement have Indian CEOs made since being in place, other than doing stock buybacks, fattening their salaries, outsourcing jobs back to India, and censoring speech. I don't trust them in any "Quad" and wouldn't have them, no matter what. The US should reorient towards Pakistan the way it used to and shut off India entirely.

 

"Create"... what does it mean? Microsoft did not become what it is today (btw, its CEO is an indian-born person) in one day, by one individual. Hats off to Bill Gates, who certainly never shied away from employing the best regardless of nationality. Google was co-founded by Sergey Brin, again a russian-born person. If I had enough patience to look up the others, I am sure I would find foreign-born individuals in key posisitons.

 

In my experience of a few years working at a major science institution in the US, I would say that a lot of the work in research and development was carried out by foreigners, often from India and China and Russia as well as from Europe. Kudos to the USA for an excellent policy of attracting such people with proper work visas and good salaries, unlike some countries in the EU where science is still considerd a low priority. Some of them would stay on and become american citizens, good for them and good for USA. To think that Microsoft, e.g., is the product of "american innovation" only is ridiculous.

 

As for being loyal to the home country, it is natural at least in the first generation to feel close ties of language, culture, food. The same happens on this forum, where Brits and Americans and everybody else are constantly bitching about their host country Thailand. A lot of native english speakers, primarily US and UK, earn their bread in China as language teachers, do you think they love China more than home?

 

[Iamfalang]

gotta generalize.  sorry.

 

India hates China, or China hates India (definitely) or both.

 

Burma has a military killing people.  Thailand hasn't said that's bad.  America has. China, probably doesn't care or supports Burma.

 

Vietnam might split, again.    

 

Cambodia, China.  Already done.  Laos, China, already done.   Philippines, America, already done.  Japan goes with USA over China, already done.  S. Korea, America.   done.

 

Maybe we get a different shape of Thailand, wider in the bottom (taking some of Cambodia like before) and lose some at the top (CR, CM maybe......)

 

Thailand is definitely leaning America, but there is no need to decide now.

 

Don't worry TVFM, I'm on it...... 100 million baht is my fee, and I'm drafting the world constitution.  I'll solve everything!!!!!!   

 

Oh, and falangs..............yea, you definitely lose.   lol.