Illegally denying entry with a tourist visa or visa exempt at an airport?

[NoshowJones]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:07 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Bangkok Bank wanted me to buy insurance as well. When I refused she got a bit huffy and said then I would need to open account with 20K thb. My response, fine here you go 20K.

Are these employees not given a commission when they get someone to take on the banks insurance? Only asking. When anyone tries to force insurance on to you, always look out for some sort of a scam.

Edited July 18, 2022 by possum1931

[Heng]

'At the discretion of the border guards/immigration officers' is pretty much the norm anywhere no matter what you think your 'rights' are.   

[NoshowJones]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:09 AM, FriendlyFarang said:

Why do you make up things? That's not what Thai immigration law says.

So things are never at the discretion of an immigration officer????

They all go by the same rules????

Edited July 18, 2022 by possum1931

[FriendlyFarang]

Just now, possum1931 said:

So things are never at the discretion of an immigration officer????

Regarding entry: No, they can only deny people for the specific reasons listed in the immigration act, and they have to stamp the reason in the passport.

[VocalNeal]

15 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

in Thailand they can't (legally).

I counted 10 reasons for which they can deny entry, when i looked here. https://www.thai-laws.com/entering-and-department-the-kingdom/

[NoshowJones]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:20 AM, simon43 said:

Having read all posts in this thread, I get the feeling that Thailand might not be the best holiday or long-term destination for the OP...

Not just the OP. Anyone!

[NoshowJones]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:24 AM, sandyf said:

The legal grounds are exactly that, Thai immigration law.

It is your responsibility to be aware of the applicable laws so why are you asking?

The word "discretion" springs to mind again.

[FriendlyFarang]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I counted 10 reasons for which they can deny entry, when i looked here. https://www.thai-laws.com/entering-and-department-the-kingdom/

Yes, only for those reasons, and they have to state the reason.

The previous poster claimed that Immigration can deny anyone they choose and don't have to disclose the reason.

[FriendlyFarang]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

The word "discretion" springs to mind again.

The word "discretion" doesn't exist in the Thai immigration act, so it's only in your mind.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:38 AM, FriendlyFarang said:

There is no Thai immigration law which would allow them to arbitrarily deny entry.

The word "discretion" should be kept in mind throughout this topic.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Try to make you buy insurance is their job. If you say no thanks i don't need one, problem solved, you still get the account. 

Do you??

[NoshowJones]

37 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Regarding entry: No, they can only deny people for the specific reasons listed in the immigration act, and they have to stamp the reason in the passport.

You have a point, I was thinking about all the times I keep reading about IO's in different offices and even IO's in the same office making up their own rules.

In the 20 years since I first came to Thailand, I have never had a problem with any IO at immigration when entering the country, but I cannot say the same about officers at my local immigration office over the years.

[Russell17au]

When you fill in the visa application you are filling in a legal document and if any of the information that you put in that document is incorrect then the IO has the full law of refusing entry. If you fill in that you are a tourist and when the IO scans your passport and the data base shows that you have only been out of the country for 5 days in the last 6 months then you are not a tourist and you have submitted a false document and the IO has the full right to refuse you entry and it is the same with visa exempt. Plus the IO will test you if you have been in the country for long periods of time using tourist visa's and visa exempt and they will see what your attitude reaction is when they tell you that entry refused.

[Petethefeet]

When I arrived in Bangkok in January this year, the IO took me to one side and asked me many questions, the first one being 'why are you here? You were here in October. I had been in the phuket sandbox from August to October. My reply was that I am retired, I like Thailand. I am on holiday. Eventually we started talking about English football and he was friendly and stamped my passport with a 60 day visa. He also gave me the impression that I was in future a marked man on their computer system. I extended my visa for a further 30 days in chiang mai with no problem. I have spoken to other people who have endured this process. I really thought he was going to send me back home and was anxious at first. I think it is a power trip or just boredom on the part of the IO. I returned to Thailand on July 6th and sailed through immigration. 

[khunPer]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:26 PM, JoseThailand said:

From what I read, in these situations immigration officials falsify the reason for deportation, citing "insufficient funds" or similar, where the person clearly meets all the legal requirements (holds enough money on them, has an hotel booking, return ticket etc.).

If you have sufficient funds and a ticket out of Thailand - as the regulations say - then you won't need to pay a VIP-fee to enter, simple as that...

Edited July 18, 2022 by khunPer

[Thingamabob]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:20 AM, simon43 said:

Having read all posts in this thread, I get the feeling that Thailand might not be the best holiday or long-term destination for the OP...

Yes, not the best destination for the OP given the tone of his comments. Problem for him is most immigration authorities around the world can be awkward to say the least. 

[MyFriend You]

On 7/16/2022 at 3:00 PM, JoseThailand said:

If so, why do they falsify the evidence, citing "insufficient funds" for example?

You are supposed to have a certain amount of Money in your pocket upon entry (20,000 baht??)  If you don't, insufficient funds.........

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

That would have to be proven, you are going on the word of those that have probably tried to abuse the system.

Presumably, you are basing this view on the fact that the plain language of Thailand's laws as written are not the real law of the land. In a sense you are correct. Officials are often allowed to disregard the law as written with impunity. However, it is reasonable, in my view, to point out that they are doing so. Also, whether the laws as written are appropriate, those who are basing their actions on the written laws are not those "trying to abuse the system".

 

There were good reasons for making the grounds for admitting or denying entry to those with visas clearcut. As soon as you give officials discretion to decide whether someone is admitted or not, you are encouraging corruption amongst rogue officials: something we have recently observed at some airports as officials are allowed to ignore the law.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Heng said:

'At the discretion of the border guards/immigration officers' is pretty much the norm anywhere no matter what you think your 'rights' are.   

... and that is one of the main reasons Thai Immigration officials can get away with this. People assume that Thai law on this is the same as in almost all other countries. In a third world country like Thailand, giving officials discretion to extort money from those trying to enter is a bad idea. That is why the Thai Immigration Act was specifically written to make decisions on admitting or denying entry clearcut, not giving officials the kind of power they have, for instance, at US airports.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The word "discretion" should be kept in mind throughout this topic.

Presumably, your definition of "discretion" is "not required to follow the law as written". It is worth noting, by the way, that most airports do follow the law regarding people entering with visas. Also, where visa exempt entry is concerned, there are specific regulations that do give officials discretion on whether to deny entry (though the officials use the wrong reason from Section 12 in doing so).

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

You have a point, I was thinking about all the times I keep reading about IO's in different offices and even IO's in the same office making up their own rules.

In the 20 years since I first came to Thailand, I have never had a problem with any IO at immigration when entering the country, but I cannot say the same about officers at my local immigration office over the years.

Quite, and the reason for this is clear. According to the law, officials at your local immigration office have broad discretion on whether to give you an extension. Immigration officials at land borders and airports are not given that power. Until about five years ago, the law denying discretion to Immigration at entry points was always followed. Indeed, the law is still followed at most entry points.

[BritTim]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So what about continuous entries using visa exempt via air. 

There are specific regulations governing this. Immigration is, in most cases, supposed to prevent this, though the policy in disallowing it is supposed to be enforced flexibly (which, I think, means allowed if there are special reasons for believing it is justified).

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Do you??

I got it without insurance twice

[anterian]

about 14 years ago I applied to open an account with SCB. They said no problem but you will need to take our insurance first, so I said ok and supplied my passport details, Some time later the manager appeared and said sorry their computer said I was too old, I still got my account, 4 accounts in fact.

[micmichd]

7 minutes ago, anterian said:

about 14 years ago I applied to open an account with SCB. They said no problem but you will need to take our insurance first, so I said ok and supplied my passport details, Some time later the manager appeared and said sorry their computer said I was too old, I still got my account, 4 accounts in fact.

Too old for an insurance? 

[JoseThailand]

10 hours ago, micmichd said:

2 week holiday may be normal for you. In Germany you can legally claim 6 weeks holiday a year, and if you're smart you can extend it beyond that. 

I am smart enough to have a year round tourist holiday.

[JoseThailand]

5 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

You are supposed to have a certain amount of Money in your pocket upon entry (20,000 baht??)  If you don't, insufficient funds.........

You didn't get what I'm talking about. People do have 20,000 baht and more in cash. But the officials falsify the facts and cite "insufficient funds" as a fake reason for denying entry. 

[natway09]

I have said before & will say it again

Immigration has the right all around the world to deny entry to who ever, for what ever reason they see fit. There is no such thing as "illegal non entry"

If you ever are in this position good idea to take a long hard look at yourself to see if you are

abusing some priviliges

[JoseThailand]

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

If you have sufficient funds and a ticket out of Thailand - as the regulations say - then you won't need to pay a VIP-fee to enter, simple as that...

But the problem is, they don't follow the regulations and falsify the facts to deny entry.

[JoseThailand]

12 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Did that really happen to you in Thailand and what was the outcome? Would be very rare.

Yes, I was taken away from the main booths to a separate area for interrogation. Eventually I was allowed entry but for the next time I was advised to use their "special service" for $100.