Biden cancels $10,000 in federal student loan debt for most borrowers

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Exactly. If there is one thing the world needs less of, it is "communications" degree holders. Or perhaps "visual arts" majors.  Oh, and lawyers. And of course the aforementioned Interpretive Dance people. 

It's not a problem that those programs exist. The issue is that they overproduce graduates. Visual arts are fine, as long as they are a more exclusive course of study, instead of an undergraduate "undecided" dumping ground. If someone wants to study filmmaking or media arts, for example, they should be tested prior to entry for an aptitude in those majors. Or, if you really want to be effective, take the students interested in those programs and enroll them in majors that emphasize things such as storytelling, writing, narrative development, and history. Have them read. A lot. Then, upon graduation, those interested in direct application of their knowledge to industries such as film or television could take a six months vocational line of study at a place like SAE, which was a vocational training with hands on intensive study using equipment. Thus, exclusivity at the theoretical level, and broad based learning at the practical hands on level. Could cut costs enormously and save students from being directed into dead end careers.

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10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Must be terrible not to have one original thought. Does a college education take away your ability to have a thought of your own.

 

 

If you're writing science fiction novels, then fantasize away. So to your way of thinking, thoughts that are tied to reality aren't original? Not surprising that someone with a right wing bent would have disdain for, among other things, scientific thought. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

You do not get a 1099 on a Tax cut.  

How about the PPP loans he forgave? Did they get one?

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

You do not get a 1099 on a Tax cut.  

You did get a 10-99 under O'Bama for the Stimulus checks he sent out and you were taxed upon them if you were a Citizen

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You did get a 10-99 under O'Bama for the Stimulus checks he sent out and you were taxed upon them if you were a Citizen

So it's O'Bama not Obama? His father was black Irish?

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

NO, the government already lent the money.  Now they have to take money to fill that hole. 

 

And yes the recipients have extra income, but at the expense of the people who paid to fill the hole.  Classic income redistribution in an upwards direction. 

No individual with an annual income over $125,000 is getting any of this relief. 

 

It’s going to middle income and low income individuals.

 

And remember the Rightwing bleat, it’s the rich who pay most the taxes.

 

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, John Drake said:

It's not a problem that those programs exist. The issue is that they overproduce graduates. Visual arts are fine, as long as they are a more exclusive course of study, instead of an undergraduate "undecided" dumping ground. If someone wants to study filmmaking or media arts, for example, they should be tested prior to entry for an aptitude in those majors. Or, if you really want to be effective, take the students interested in those programs and enroll them in majors that emphasize things such as storytelling, writing, narrative development, and history. Have them read. A lot. Then, upon graduation, those interested in direct application of their knowledge to industries such as film or television could take a six months vocational line of study at a place like SAE, which was a vocational training with hands on intensive study using equipment. Thus, exclusivity at the theoretical level, and broad based learning at the practical hands on level. Could cut costs enormously and save students from being directed into dead end careers.

That is a good point. Frankly, aptitude testing should be a must for most, if not all, degree programmes.  A lot can also be learned at the community college/vocational level.  There is no need to pile up 100,000 plus in debt to study English Lit. or History. 

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No individual with an annual income over $125,000 is getting any of this relief. 

 

It’s going to middle income and low income individuals.

 

And remember the Rightwing bleat, it’s the rich who pay most the taxes.

 

 

 

 

According to Wharton, that is not true.  63% goes to people earning over $80,000.

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So it's O'Bama not Obama? His father was black Irish?

my typing fingers think he is Birish

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Never said that. But the chance that they are under large debt burdens, caused by their personal decisions, are much lower. 

 

You take out a loan for a service and use the service, you pay it back.  Especially if your family income is six figures plus. This is the part I truly don't understand- how is it possible to justify people with household incomes over 200 grand getting debt "relief". 

The line has to drawn somewhere.

 

Wherever it is drawn you’d be handed a rightwing talking point to regurgitate here.

 

The cut-off includes around 95 % of people holding student debt and only excludes the wealthy.

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to Wharton, that is not true.  63% goes to people earning over $80,000.

Also according to Wharton people in the 90-95th percentile constitute 2 percent of the recipients and those earning over that constitute 0%. Given how the bell curve works, it seems like a stretch to claim that a significant number of households earning $200,000+ constitute a significant number of recipients.

Also, you keep on neglecting to take into account the fact that Pell Grant recipients are eligible for up to $20,000 in relief. A proviso not reflected in the Wharton report.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

my typing fingers think he is Birish

Interesting. I also let my fingers do the thinking when I have to count past 5.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to Wharton, that is not true.  63% goes to people earning over $80,000.

Because incomes of graduates are skewed higher than those of non graduates.

But please, $80,000 per year is not a lot of money. It’s not by any means a high income.

[The Hammer2021]

This is a blatant handout or bribe to the already wealthy middle class academic establishment. It’s a gift to Biden’s political base at a cost to the American taxpayers of 300 billion  dollars.

[The Hammer2021]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because incomes of graduates are skewed higher than those of non graduates.

But please, $80,000 per year is not a lot of money. It’s not by any means a high income.

It's above average.

[The Hammer2021]

Actually Biden’s plan is really grotesque: manual workers are paying off the loans of wealthy doctors and lawyers. This is anti working class legislation.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Trump's tax cut benefited the people who pay an overwhelming share of income taxes.

 

The people who received little or no benefit from Trump's tax cuts........... got their benefits beforehand.......... by already having to pay little or no income tax!

 

----------------

 

There's really no comparison between Trump's Tax Cut and Biden's Student Loan Debt Relief. They are very different things reflecting entirely different circumstamces.

 

Sure, there are things that CAN BE compared......... but they really shouldn't be!

 

--------------

 

Here's a more accurate thing to compare..........

 

People owe taxes and don't pay them. Penalties and Interest get added, so the number gets larger. But the people still don't pay.

 

Time passes and the number keeps getting larger.

 

These are what are known as  "Tax Cheats."

 

Every once in a while, the IRS will give "Tax Cheats" an opportunity to get out from under. They'll offer a program wherein if you pay off a smaller amount right away....... (sometimes 80% less!)....... they will clear your books. They call this "Tax Relief," I believe.

 

It is basically an amnesty program that allows them to collect SOME money.......... and eliminates the costs associated with having to keep chasing after these "Cheats."

 

If you want to compare something related to taxes to Studen Debt Relief........... THIS is the thing to compare.

 

Deadbeats not paying what they owe........... then getting rewarded for it!

 

Tax deadbeats..........

vs........

Student Loan deadbeats!

 

Those two circumstances are truly worthy of comparison.......... not.......... Trump's Tax Cuts vs Biden's Student Debt Relief!

 

Cheers!

 

 

The term tax cheats would more commonly be used to those who evade tax in the first place but  those not paying their debts are a big problem too. The third big problem is existing loopholes such that many corporations, and those who can afford the best advice, can find offshore and other solutions to  pay a lower marginal rate of tax that many average wage earners. 

All three problems can be helped by beefing up and funding the IRS with 1. smart well paid staff to increase audits at all levels but mainly at the top, 2. tax specialists who can identify loopholes and propose a fairer tax code, and 3. IT specialists and new computer systems that can increase the current poor technology to better data match and to identify evasion and find those who can pay their debts and choose not to. 

Biden's new funding of the IRS with an additional $80 billion can help this happen. If done correctly  it should bring in additional taxes of multiples of this. 

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to Wharton, that is not true.  63% goes to people earning over $80,000.

Here's Wharton's revised table that reflects the Pell Grant.

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/8/26/biden-student-loan-forgiveness

As you can see, the lower 60% receive about 74% of the benefits. And those in the highest quintile receive 5.69% of the benefits. 

 

[EVENKEEL]

46 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If you're writing science fiction novels, then fantasize away. So to your way of thinking, thoughts that are tied to reality aren't original? Not surprising that someone with a right wing bent would have disdain for, among other things, scientific thought. 

You know I started the reply talking about kids who aren't college material and the lack of High school programs to better prepare them for a brighter future than complaining about minimum wages. And the fact that the money could be better spent addressing the needs of those individuals.

 

How is that not inline with reality. Taking on massive college debt to secure a starting wage of 56K/yr isn't really good math. If the parents can foot the bill, fine.

 

Kids in High school should be taught about the alternatives to college, and there are many.

A truck driver makes more than a college grad. Amazing. The maritime industry pays well.

 

 

 

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Company-Truck-Driver-Salary#:~:text=As of Jul 27%2C 2022%2C the average annual,This is the equivalent of %241%2C574%2Fweek or %246%2C823%2Fmonth.

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

How about the PPP loans he forgave? Did they get one?

PPP, during the global pandemic?  No because it was during a global pandemic.  Last time I checked going to college was optional.  I chose this option, borrowed money, got some pell grants, Jones the Army, did a stint on Active Duty after graduated.   After I graduated I made a lot of sacrifices and paid back every cent I borrowed.  

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

You did get a 10-99 under O'Bama for the Stimulus checks he sent out and you were taxed upon them if you were a Citizen

I am a citizen and I do not recall getting stimulus checks between 2009 and 2017(the Obama years).  I do not recall this on my past tax returns.  

 

I did not qualify under these conditions:

 

 

• Direct cash payments
  • Senate – $17 billion to give one-time $300 payments to recipients of Supplemental Security Income and Social Security, and veterans receiving disability and pensions.
  • House – $4 billion to provide a one-time additional Supplemental Security Income and Social Security Disability Insurance payment to the elderly, of $450 for individuals and $630 for married couples.
  • Conference – $250 one-time payment to each recipient of Supplemental Security Income, Social Security (Regular & Disability) Insurance, Veterans pension, Railroad Retirement, or State retirement system^[26]

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

PPP, during the global pandemic?  No because it was during a global pandemic.  Last time I checked going to college was optional.  I chose this option, borrowed money, got some pell grants, Jones the Army, did a stint on Active Duty after graduated.   After I graduated I made a lot of sacrifices and paid back every cent I borrowed.  

And now you're all butt hurt because other people got free stuff.

[sqwakvfr]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

And now you're all butt hurt because other people got free stuff.

No.  The money has to come from somewhere;  Where could it come from?

 

1. Cancel other Federal Programs(highly unlikely).

2. Raise Taxes

3. Print more money

 

This is where free stuff comes from.  “Nothing in life is truly free”. 

 

In April 1992 I arrested a young man who was coming out of burned out store and he was carrying a TV.  At this time LA was undergoing a little thing called a Riot. He said “it’s free”.  I said no and then I handcuffed him.  

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

No.  The money has to come from somewhere;  Where could it come from?

 

1. Cancel other Federal Programs(highly unlikely).

2. Raise Taxes

3. Print more money

 

This is where free stuff comes from.  “Nothing in life is truly free”.

The same pot that Trump gave away 2.4 trillion (with a T) dollars to the rich from. Those arguments about it being taxpayers money so all taxpayers have a right to be butt hurt is just a talking point, probably found on Breitbart or Infowars.  Governements spend money according to their mandate and student tax relief is popular.

[stoner]

whats the us defense budget yearly ?  

[sqwakvfr]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The same pot that Trump gave away 2.4 trillion (with a T) dollars to the rich from. Those arguments about it being taxpayers money so all taxpayers have a right to be butt hurt is just a talking point, probably found on Breitbart or Infowars.  Governements spend money according to their mandate and student tax relief is popular.

Who watches the <deleted> on infowars?  Do you?  Because I have never.  Andrew Bretibart has been dead for years. Also, what is going to be popular next for government to spend on?  Credit Card debt? Auto Loan Debt? So canceling student loan debt is now tax relief? 

[sqwakvfr]

Just now, stoner said:

whats the us defense budget yearly ?  

700 Billion or more.

[stoner]

9 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

 Where could it come from?

they could drop a few less bombs next week. that should cover it. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Who watches the <deleted> on infowars?  Do you?  Because I have never.  Andrew Bretibart has been dead for years. Also, what is going to be popular next for government to spend on?  Credit Card debt? Auto Loan Debt? So canceling student loan debt is now tax relief? 

Oh, right wing talking point #3, the slippery slope argument. They spent money on X so the universe is the limit.

 

Any reduction in tax burden has always been tax relief.

 

Debt and deficit always goes up under GOP presidencies and down under dem presidencies.

[sqwakvfr]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Oh, right wing talking point #3, the slippery slope argument. They spent money on X so the universe is the limit.

 

Any reduction in tax burden has always been tax relief.

Paying or not paying debt is a tax burden/tax relief? So only a “right winger” can make the Slippery Slope argument?