Enoch Powell, he wasnt wrong in his forecast !

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'm not arguing about the gist of what he was saying but what he actually said.

That is what he did say though  , although he spent about 20 minutes saying it 

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yeah. This is the (increasingly irrelevant) dinosaur fan club thread.

Yes, back when people could discuss things without just calling each other names . 

  

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is what he did say though  , although he spent about 20 minutes saying it 

I repeat, nobody ever said they supported unrestricted immigration despite the right wing projection accusing their opponents as saying otherwise.

[NanLaew]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:05 AM, transam said:

Not a fixation, to those who didn't know, it maybe an eye opener, it certainly was for me...

Obviously. Maybe an eye opener for  you but having to Google one's newly found national hero?

 

Honestly...

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I repeat, nobody ever said they supported unrestricted immigration despite the right wing projection accusing their opponents as saying otherwise.

At the time the U.K had unrestricted immigration from Commonwealth Countries and Enoch wanted that to change .

   So you do agree with him on that issue 

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I just listened to the speech again and he said no such thing .

I suggest that you listen to the speech as well , before falsely saying its content 

And, in fact, he did cite 15-20 years in his rivers of blood speech in paragraph 10. He also said this following up on his rivers of blood comment: 

"That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century."

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

At the time the U.K had unrestricted immigration from Commonwealth Countries and Enoch wanted that to change .

   So you do agree with him on that issue 

No. Britain raped those countries for centuries and that was an attempt at the time to provide some redress. I think if you want to discuss this topic you need to examine the reasons why they allowed that immigration. It was the law at the time.

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually I believe it was in that Dick Cavett interview that he foretold disaster in 15-20 years. The interview took place in 1971

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And, in fact, he did cite 15-20 years in his rivers of blood speech in paragraph 10. He also said this following up on his rivers of blood comment: 

 

 

 

You initially told me that it was in the Dick Cavett interview in 1971 .

   I listened to that throughout and it wasn't in there .

Now you are saying that its in a different speech a few years earlier .

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No. Britain raped those countries for centuries and that was an attempt at the time to provide some redress. I think if you want to discuss this topic you need to examine the reasons why they allowed that immigration. It was the law at the time.

You dont seem to have listened to the interview in the O.P

You seem to be guessing at the reason , and the real reason is stated in the video .

   Its to do with "British Subjects" .

Give it a listen 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You dont seem to have listened to the interview in the O.P

You seem to be guessing at the reason , and the real reason is stated in the video .

   Its to do with "British Subjects" .

Give it a listen 

It was about the fact that some British Subjects weren't white.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, ozimoron said:

It was about the fact that some British Subjects weren't white.

If you are not going to listen to the video in the OP , I am not going to sit here typing and telling you what he said and explaining it to you 

[NanLaew]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:54 PM, Kwasaki said:

I liked Enoch Powell's time back when the OP 's clip was shown. 

You had comedians like Jim Davidson and a few others that were toasted by the PC take the knee brigade sad days, no flogging sense of humour anymore  because of immigrants.

You sound like a proper 'love they neighbour' sort of bloke.

 

On 9/2/2022 at 1:23 PM, chalawaan said:

Immigrant Indian Priti Patel deporting Afghans to Rawanda is pure Monty Python, without the laughs. I'd rather have an Afghani living next door to me than that cow!

She's not a favorite of mine but immigrant? So Islington's a whole different country now?

 

On 9/2/2022 at 1:41 PM, billd766 said:

On 9/2/2022 at 11:05 AM, transam said:

Not a fixation, to those who didn't know, it maybe an eye opener, it certainly was for me...

And me too.

Oh look! Another one!

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you are not going to listen to the video in the OP , I am not going to sit here typing and telling you what he said and explaining it to you 

I did listen to it and my comments reflect what I heard. Stop judging others by your own standards vis a vis not reading links.

[Chomper Higgot]

41 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I didn't say that you were shouting at me .

I was talking about interviews with Politicians on television 

Oh you want to go back to the days when a politician could say whatever they like, including promoting racist ideas, without being challenged?

 

As it is I think interviewer allow politicians to get away with too much lying and hate mongering as it is.

 

Leave deference where it belongs, back in history.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh you want to go back to the days when a politician could say whatever they like, including promoting racist ideas, without being challenged?

 

As it is I think interviewer allow politicians to get away with too much lying and hate mongering as it is.

 

Leave deference where it belongs, back in history.

They still want to tug the forelock.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh you want to go back to the days when a politician could say whatever they like, including promoting racist ideas, without being challenged?

 

No, I think that the topic of immigration should be able to be discussed and spoken about without name calling and abuse from people who have a different opinion to the person speaking .

   Once that person has spoken, other people are then free to reply .

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

You initially told me that it was in the Dick Cavett interview in 1971 .

   I listened to that throughout and it wasn't in there .

Now you are saying that its in a different speech a few years earlier .

I got it right the first time when I said it was in his rivers of blood speech. But as you pointed out, the speech was made in 1968. Which doesn't change the fact that he predicted horror well before the end of the 20th century.

[transam]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Obviously. Maybe an eye opener for  you but having to Google one's newly found national hero?

 

Honestly...

No hero of mine, just a splendid fellow with his own vision of the UK's future.

 

Honestly....????

 

PS. But glad to see you are now updated with some facts...???? 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I got it right the first time when I said it was in his rivers of blood speech. But as you pointed out, the speech was made in 1968. Which doesn't change the fact that he predicted horror well before the end of the 20th century.

I quoted you where you stated in was in the Dick Cavett interview from 1971 . 

  Enoch was saying that unless there were restriction on immigration , immigrants would outnumber British people within 20 years

[Chomper Higgot]

34 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

At the time the U.K had unrestricted immigration from Commonwealth Countries and Enoch wanted that to change .

   So you do agree with him on that issue 

No, he wanted a political platform from which to launch his bid for party leader and PM.

 

He parked his intellect, knowledge of very recent history and climbed on board theracism bus.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

No hero of mine, just a splendid fellow with his own vision of the UK's future.

 

Honestly....????

 

PS. But glad to see you are now updated with some facts...???? 

As I remarked earlier, he had his admirers defenders then as now.

 

 

[pedro01]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

He was from an era where people could actually talk about things, rather than just calling each other names .

  Like *Only racists talk about immigration*

He didnt just 'talk about immigration' 

 

He came from a time when racism was acceptable. I mean, some of the TV shows/comedians at the time were funny but offensive by todays standards.

 

But Enoch wasnt a TV Show or a comedian.

 

Alf Garnett's show was hilarious, as was 'love thy neighbour'. Both reflections of their time. But COMEDY, i am not being woke but Enoch was a racist by any standard.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, I think that the topic of immigration should be able to be discussed and spoken about without name calling and abuse from people who have a different opinion to the person speaking .

   Once that person has spoken, other people are then free to reply .

I think immigration should be discussed without resorting to the use of racism towards immigrants and the scapegoating of immigrants.

 

I’m sure you would agree.

[Mac Mickmanus]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Stop judging others by your own standards vis a vis not reading links.

I do read links , its just that I don't read Guardian link after Guardian link .

  When people don't post their own opinion and just sent a Guardian link to be read .

   I now longer open Guardian links (because I became a regular daily reader due to all the links that got posted )

[transam]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ll need to demonstrate that link.

 

But yes, I’m quite sure this failing Government would like voters to believe their failures are all down to immigration.

 

The most on topic failure of this 12 year old Government is of course the failure to control immigration, despite having destroyed the economy, ostensibly to get back control of the UK’s borders.

 

So go ahead, trot out the old favorite rightwing excuse - scapegoat immigrants. 
 

It doesn’t solve anything but I’m sure it helps you to clear the bile.

 

 

 

 

You are off-topic with that bluster, you keep telling others to "Get back on topic", try it yourself........................????

[transam]

7 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Enoch Powell was a nasty little racist. 

 

No big shock to see he has fans here. 

Good morning, looks like rain today..........????

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

He didnt just 'talk about immigration' 

 

He came from a time when racism was acceptable. I mean, some of the TV shows/comedians at the time were funny but offensive by todays standards.

 

But Enoch wasnt a TV Show or a comedian.

 

Alf Garnett's show was hilarious, as was 'love thy neighbour'. Both reflections of their time. But COMEDY, i am not being but Enoch was a racist by any standard.

Nevermind the cultural acceptance of racism, Powell was speaking in the immediate aftermath of atrocities committed by the British in Kenya.

 

As a politician he was aware of this. As a politician and a WW2 veteran he was absolutely aware of the part racism had in played in the most vile atrocity committed against a race of people in recorded history.

 

And yet still he climbed aboard the racism bus.

 

It is an immense credit to the British public that they rejected him and his hatred.

 

Or at least to those that did then and still do now.

 

Sadly, he like all purveyors of racism has and still has his admirers and defenders.

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I quoted you where you stated in was in the Dick Cavett interview from 1971 . 

  Enoch was saying that unless there were restriction on immigration , immigrants would outnumber British people within 20 years

He predicted 3.5 million Commonwealth members and their descendants in 15-20 years. Doesn't seem like a majority to me.

[transam]

46 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No. Britain raped those countries for centuries and that was an attempt at the time to provide some redress. I think if you want to discuss this topic you need to examine the reasons why they allowed that immigration. It was the law at the time.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, now we are getting to your anti-British stuff, I just knew it, the click..........Well done.....????

[transam]

39 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh you want to go back to the days when a politician could say whatever they like, including promoting racist ideas, without being challenged?

 

As it is I think interviewer allow politicians to get away with too much lying and hate mongering as it is.

 

Leave deference where it belongs, back in history.

The thread is about a bloke from past history, try staying focused..????