Popular Post nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: I think the fact that Biden had a reason for that speech is the sad part here. Could anybody imagine 10 years ago that an American president would refuse to accept the certified result of the vote? And then, would anybody have imagined that the outgoing president would not only deny reality but then inflame the organized mob to storm the capitol? And then? Many of us thought now it's over, finally. But it wasn't over. Then lots of GOP politicians, who maybe for a day criticized Trump, supported him again. I could add hundred similar lines to this post. A few years ago nobody would have thought any of that could happen. Remember, we all thought W was bad, and we thought it could not possibly get worse. Those times... And now millions and millions of Americans are so far away from reality that they still support all the utterly crazy things which happen over there. In 2006 the film Idiocracy showed a crazy president, 500 years in the future. Look at this now and it almost looks like a normal speech of this MAGA guy. Quo Vadis America? If Trump's non-acceptance is the issue then why wait more than 18 months to complain about it? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, nauseus said: No. Not me. There is no way to check this "data" properly, with references like that. How do you check the data with a poll aside from rely on the results given? Would you like to check the data properly with the crime statistics as well? How would you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, nauseus said: If Trump's non-acceptance is the issue then why wait more than 18 months to complain about it? Many of us though so many people can't be so ignorant and stupid for such a long time. They must wake up at some time, and many of us though let them wake up and accept reality. But somehow lots of people don't want to see reality. So finally, someone has to tell them that they should align their thinking with the truth. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: I think the fact that Biden had a reason for that speech is the sad part here. Could anybody imagine 10 years ago that an American president would refuse to accept the certified result of the vote? And then, would anybody have imagined that the outgoing president would not only deny reality but then inflame the organized mob to storm the capitol? And then? Many of us thought now it's over, finally. But it wasn't over. Then lots of GOP politicians, who maybe for a day criticized Trump, supported him again. I could add hundred similar lines to this post. A few years ago nobody would have thought any of that could happen. Remember, we all thought W was bad, and we thought it could not possibly get worse. Those times... And now millions and millions of Americans are so far away from reality that they still support all the utterly crazy things which happen over there. In 2006 the film Idiocracy showed a crazy president, 500 years in the future. Look at this now and it almost looks like a normal speech of this MAGA guy. Quo Vadis America? I think It's not only about stupidity. I would tend to think that some Trump supporters are not that stupid, but rather consider that all shots are allowed against the other camp. Hence the relevance of referring to fascism. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Many of us though so many people can't be so ignorant and stupid for such a long time. They must wake up at some time, and many of us though let them wake up and accept reality. But somehow lots of people don't want to see reality. So finally, someone has to tell them that they should align their thinking with the truth. Do you think the MAGA crowd actually believe trump is speaking the truth - if so they would truly have to be stupid. Perhaps it's just expressing support for trump's anti government / anti institution ideology - remember trump appointed people to departments who actually had zero qualifications for the role and were intent on destroying them. trump has made it very clear he's only interested in people loyal to him as the priority, not to the Constitution, trump is in fact the "Enemy of the State". 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, simple1 said: Do you think the MAGA crowd actually believe trump is speaking the truth - if so they would truly have to be stupid. Perhaps it's just expressing support for trump's anti government / anti institution ideology - remember trump appointed people to departments who actually had zero qualifications for the role and were intent on destroying them. trump has made it very clear he's only interested in people loyal to him as the priority, not to the Constitution, trump is in fact the "Enemy of the State". Now I don't find the link. Not long ago I saw a video with interviews of people who came to see Trump at one of those MAGA events. Obviously I don't know how much editing was necessary but it seemed all of them were utterly ignorant and/or stupid. They didn't want to look at anything that could possibly change their minds. I.e. Ivanka Trump testifying that Biden won, that must be fake. And and and. I am sure there are also people like you describe. But it seems the MAGA masses are stupid and ignorant, and they do everything to stay like that. In a way that shouldn't be my concern. If Americans want to vote for such a guy to be their president because they think he represents them, fine, let them do it. But there is the rest of the world which can't just ignore America. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, nauseus said: If Trump's non-acceptance is the issue then why wait more than 18 months to complain about it? Because he was waiting to use it against Trump in the midterms? And it looked like it worked perfectly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Now I don't find the link. Not long ago I saw a video with interviews of people who came to see Trump at one of those MAGA events. Obviously I don't know how much editing was necessary but it seemed all of them were utterly ignorant and/or stupid. They didn't want to look at anything that could possibly change their minds. I.e. Ivanka Trump testifying that Biden won, that must be fake. And and and. I am sure there are also people like you describe. But it seems the MAGA masses are stupid and ignorant, and they do everything to stay like that. In a way that shouldn't be my concern. If Americans want to vote for such a guy to be their president because they think he represents them, fine, let them do it. But there is the rest of the world which can't just ignore America. Agree. trump is not isolated to US politics nor insulated from world affairs - unfortunately he's an influencer on the world stage - IMO it will a huge negative for USA and world stability should he again win the Presidency. Edited September 5, 2022 by simple1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said: How do you check the data with a poll aside from rely on the results given? Would you like to check the data properly with the crime statistics as well? How would you do that? 1. It's not a poll. 2. Precisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: Many of us though so many people can't be so ignorant and stupid for such a long time. They must wake up at some time, and many of us though let them wake up and accept reality. But somehow lots of people don't want to see reality. So finally, someone has to tell them that they should align their thinking with the truth. Oh right. Align or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 32 minutes ago, placeholder said: Because he was waiting to use it against Trump in the midterms? And it looked like it worked perfectly. Probably. But I think it could backfire perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, simple1 said: Agree. trump is not isolated to US politics nor insulated from world affairs - unfortunately he's an influencer on the world stage - IMO it will a huge negative for USA and world stability should he again win the Presidency. If a poll was taken I'd bet that neither biden nor Trump 2024 would be the people's choice for president. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, nauseus said: Probably. But I think it could backfire perfectly. Really? You think that Trump's performances in Pennslyvania are a plus for Republican candidates? You think that someone so easily triggered is not going to be voicing the same kind of repugnant comments over and over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, simple1 said: Agree. trump is not isolated to US politics nor insulated from world affairs - unfortunately he's an influencer on the world stage - IMO it will a huge negative for USA and world stability should he again win the Presidency. To me it seemed that the world stabilized quite a bit while Trump was president - no new foreign wars nor major threats - I can only say the opposite about Biden so far. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: Really? You think that Trump's performances in Pennslyvania are a plus for Republican candidates? You think that someone so easily triggered is not going to be voicing the same kind of repugnant comments over and over again? I was talking about Biden's rant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, nauseus said: Oh right. Align or? What do you think? Is it good that people know the truth and act according to the truth? I.e. should people know the earth is not flat? Is there any advantage of leaving flat-earthers ignorant? There was a time when the political left and right just had different opinions. We could argue about how we would like to see the future. One example is we could argue if poor people should be supported with taxes from the rich people and to what extent. There are many positions and one or the other position is not really right or wrong, they are just different. But now, at least in the USA, it seems it's always us against them. If they say A is true, then we must insist A is wrong. The "problem" is that there are some universal truths. Biden won, Trump lost, is one of those truth. And inciting people to overthrow an election result is something that should never happen in any democracy - even if we don't like the winner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 minute ago, nauseus said: To me it seemed that the world stabilized quite a bit while Trump was president - no new foreign wars nor major threats - I can only say the opposite about Biden so far. trump carried on with existing US military involvement with overseas wars as well as negotiaiting with terrorists, whilst excluding the exisiting government. He also signalled intent contrary to US strategic interests. Yes, IS was mostly destoyed whilst he was in power, but that was just a continuation os existing strategy. Unfortunately he attempted to betray the Kurd who were the main infrantry combatants against IS. So far as I'm aware Biden Administration has not committed US forces to any new war or generated new threats. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, nauseus said: I was talking about Biden's rant. Even if Biden's speech could be characterized as a rant, do you think it's anywhere near the league of Trump's outright vicious and lunatic comments? All Biden has to do now is sit back and watch Trump ruin the chances of so many Republican candidates. Or do you believe that Trump will repent of his ways and only talk sense from now on? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: What do you think? Is it good that people know the truth and act according to the truth? I.e. should people know the earth is not flat? Is there any advantage of leaving flat-earthers ignorant? There was a time when the political left and right just had different opinions. We could argue about how we would like to see the future. One example is we could argue if poor people should be supported with taxes from the rich people and to what extent. There are many positions and one or the other position is not really right or wrong, they are just different. But now, at least in the USA, it seems it's always us against them. If they say A is true, then we must insist A is wrong. The "problem" is that there are some universal truths. Biden won, Trump lost, is one of those truth. And inciting people to overthrow an election result is something that should never happen in any democracy - even if we don't like the winner. The US constitutional democracy allows individual freedoms and beliefs. As soon as those rights and liberties are withdrawn. then it is no longer a democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, simple1 said: trump carried on with existing US military involvement with overseas wars as well as negotiaiting with terrorists, whilst excluding the exisiting government. He also signalled intent contrary to US strategic interests. Yes, IS was mostly destoyed whilst he was in power, but that was just a continuation os existing strategy. Unfortunately he attempted to betray the Kurd who were the main infrantry combatants against IS. So far as I'm aware Biden Administration has not committed US forces to any new war or generated new threats. What are you on about "intent"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, nauseus said: The US constitutional democracy allows individual freedoms and beliefs. As soon as those rights and liberties are withdrawn. then it is no longer a democracy. Yes. Nothing is stopping Americans from believing that the Earth is flat or that Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election. But because Americans enjoy freedom of speech, there is no law compelling such nonsensical beliefs to be treated with respect. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, placeholder said: Even if Biden's speech could be characterized as a rant, do you think it's anywhere near the league of Trump's outright vicious and lunatic comments? All Biden has to do now is sit back and watch Trump ruin the chances of so many Republican candidates. Or do you believe that Trump will repent of his ways and only talk sense from now on? I think it's way worse - Trump has targeted individuals - Biden has further alienated 75 million. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 40 minutes ago, nauseus said: 1. It's not a poll. 2. Precisely Did I say it was a poll? Precisely you can't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Just now, placeholder said: Yes. Nothing is stopping Americans from believing that the Earth is flat or that Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election. But because Americans enjoy freedom of speech, there is no law compelling such nonsensical beliefs to be treated with respect. Point well missed but that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Did I say it was a poll? Precisely you can't How do you check the data with a poll aside from rely on the results given? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, nauseus said: I think it's way worse - Trump has targeted individuals - Biden has further alienated 75 million. First off, he didn't refer in his speech to all 75 million. For one thing, it's 70% of Republicans who believe the elections were stolen. And I don't think it's possible to alienate such individuals further in any significant way. They are already alienated from reality. As for targeting individuals, he called the Justice Dept and FBI "vicious monsters" And you don't think his crazy accusation against Fetterman is going to be replayed over and over again? Trump has succeeded in making his ugliness and his obsessions big issues in the 2022 elections. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, nauseus said: Point well missed but that's OK. Thanks for the non-explanation. But that's OK. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, nauseus said: How do you check the data with a poll aside from rely on the results given? Ok seems you need to rewind a little, you say "There is no way to check this "data" properly" because the report says the following: "We pulled the data from yearly crime reports released by state governments, specifically the Departments of Justice and Safety. For states that didn’t issue state crime reports, we pulled data from reputable local news sources." https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem So tell me why are you concerned about checking the data when you do not seem concerned on checking the data from random polls or crime statistics? I know why, because its not from Fox News but I'll leave that with you...............lol For anyone else who wants to check the data then all they need to do is email or contact Thirdway.org which I'm sure the Washington Post also did when they ran the report. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, nauseus said: The US constitutional democracy allows individual freedoms and beliefs. As soon as those rights and liberties are withdrawn. then it is no longer a democracy. And what's your point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven100 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 how depressing is the state of the current leadership selections in the US ....... Joe Biden who talks like he's got a mouth full of marbles, with constant mistakes in speeches etc .... and another crook named Trump who supports Russia & China ..... jeeeeze ..... god help us ! source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-compliments-fierce-smart-putin-101715059.html 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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