How to raise low stairway headroom?

[RamenRaven]

I just bought a newly built two-story house in Thailand. It's gorgeous and everything looks great, except for the low kitchen counter and the low stairway headroom. At the 6th step, the space between the step and the roof or beam is 187 cm, which is dangerously low for me since I'm just a bit over 185 cm (I'm afraid to wear even slippers), and I'm always feeling my hair brush against the top. There are 18 steps total that are about 19-20 cm high each (irregular), not including the first and second level floors. Each step is 25 cm wide.

 

There's a small storage room under the stairs too.

 

US standards require the stairway headroom or clearance to 80 inches (203 cm). I'm not sure if this violates any Thai building codes, if they have any at all. I don't know why anyone would build a new house where you only have 187 cm when climbing the stairs, but then again, we're in Thailand.

I would like the stairway clearance to be at least my height (185 cm) + the vertical height of each step (20 cm), or at least 205 cm (in New York City, the minimum is 213 cm).

 

The seller warned me that chipping off the top (presumably made up of concrete and wood) to create more headroom is not recommended, since it could put the house at risk of structural damage.

Or maybe I should just take a risk and see if I can at least chip off a bit to make the headroom to be 190 cm.

 

But then, completely tearing down the steps to create spacious headroom is a tricky and expensive process. Presumably I'd have to raise the height of each step by 1-3 cm each, which would mean shortening the length of the stairway. There would be less room in the storage room underneath the stairway and then the bathroom that's below the stairs might also have to be modified.

 

Which company or home renovator in Chiang Mai can take on this kind of work?

[FrederikKitten]

Looking at the internet and thinking out of box, leg shortening starts at $12,000. ????

[JeffersLos]

54 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

I'm always feeling my hair brush against the top.

54 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

Which company

The MOSER 1400 has become a global success story among hair clippers due to its striking design, extraordinary performance and precision "Made in Germany". More than 50 million units have been sold in more than 100 countries since 1962!

[Crossy]

Can you post a photo of the area you want to modify please?

 

If it's rendered concrete you could certainly lose the rendering and gain a couple of cm but I wouldn't want to be removing much meat from a structural beam. 

 

And of course, making changes like this will kiss any warranty goodbye ???? 

 

Humans are very adaptable creatures, bang your head a couple of times and muscle-memory will take over ???? 

[Crossy]

This is our solution to a low door on the feed shed.

 

[carlyai]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

This is our solution to a low door on the feed shed.

 

Most people call where you eat a kitchen. But, if you want to call it a feed shed that's fine.

 

 

 

 

[RamenRaven]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Most people call where you eat a kitchen. But, if you want to call it a feed shed that's fine.

Feed shed = chicken coop? That's usually what comes to mind when you use such phrasing.

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Most people call where you eat a kitchen. But, if you want to call it a feed shed that's fine.

 

Argh. It really was a mistake removing the laugh icon!

[carlyai]

3 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

Feed shed = chicken coop? That's usually what comes to mind when you use such phrasing.

Not to Australians. ????

[carlyai]

Sorry to go off topic. 

I usually take the stairs everywhere (no lifts etc) and many/most of the stairs are built incorrectly. Either the 'run' is too small or large or the 'rise' is the same. Many, many 2 or 3 storey buildings have low head height. 

But the builders seem to use those cement slabs, placed side by side for the second, third floors. So you may be able to have steps to a landing, then 90 degrees for more steps to the second floor and remove some cement slabs without interfering with the beams.

But as Crossy says, need a picture or two.

Building correct stairs is a real art.

 

[Dante99]

8 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

+ the vertical height of each step (20 cm), or at least 205 cm (in New York City, the minimum is 213 cm)

Suggest that you check that information again.  Recommended to me by US builder, stairs should be 7-11, 7 inches rise up and 11 inch flat.  7 inches is less than 18 centimeters so your 20 cm could be a bit high.  I built 7-11 and am very happy with it.  I find stairs with narrow flat and big rise to be uncomfortable.

 

I also had the same issue as you with a bathroom under the stairs and a horizontal beam I wanted to walk under.  It is a puzzle with some fixed data and some variables to manipulate.  My solution was to change the level of the landing but keeping it high enough for an okay ceiling height in the bathroom.  Result more stairs below the landing than above but for me that is not a problem.  But since you have not posted a photo I do not know if you have a landing or not!  If not, putting one in may help.

[itsari]

Replace the staircase with a spiral staircase with the steps no more than 17cm.

You see many badly designed staircases in Thailand 

[itsari]

25 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Not to Australians. ????

Tucker box maybe ?

[carlyai]

2 minutes ago, itsari said:

Replace the staircase with a spiral staircase with the steps no more than 17cm.

You see many badly designed staircases in Thailand 

Do you think spiral staircases are ok when you're oldish or pissedanbroke?

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Do you think spiral staircases are ok when you're oldish or pissedanbroke?

Not a problem if you design the staircase correctly . Allow a large circumference and a sensible tread height .

[chickenslegs]

Possible solution?

[RamenRaven]

14 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Possible solution?

That's not a solution. That's just a way to remind you that your unsolved issue is still there.

[VocalNeal]

9 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

US standards require

????

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

10 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

+ the vertical height of each step (20 cm), or at least 205 cm (in New York City, the minimum is 213 cm)

Suggest that you check that information again.  Recommended to me by US builder, stairs should be 7-11, 7 inches rise up and 11 inch flat.

don't understand why you are trying to apply US standards to something built in Thailand where the general population is not as tall as us imports.

[Dante99]

1 minute ago, foreverlomsak said:

don't understand why you are trying to apply US standards to something built in Thailand where the general population is not as tall as us imports.

This thread is not about the general population in Thailand, it is about  farang issues, for a farang house, where the owner/occupant has stated that the Thai standards are not what he wants.  

 

 

[couchpotato]

The seller warned me that chipping off the top (presumably made up of concrete and wood) to create more headroom is not recommended, since it could put the house at risk of structural damage.

Or maybe I should just take a risk and see if I can at least chip off a bit to make the headroom to be 190 cm.

 

I had the same problem many years ago, and after many discussions, the only way to help the problem was to take off all the cement/render up to the 2nd floor beam, smooth it out nicely and repaint (as this was only cosmetic, it did not pose any structural problems). That gave me another 10-12cm, which saved the hitting my head problem and still looked good.

 

Trying to modify the step heights, or landing areas could create a multitude of problems.

Edited September 11, 2022 by couchpotato

[foreverlomsak]

3 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

This thread is not about the general population in Thailand, it is about  farang issues, for a farang house, where the owner/occupant has stated that the Thai standards are not what he wants.  

 

 

He stated 

10 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

I just bought a newly built two-story house in Thailand.

If he didn't want Thai standards should not have bought an existing house.

[Dante99]

2 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

If he didn't want Thai standards should not have bought an existing house.

I think he knew what he was buying and is generally happy with it.  I also think that wanting to modify a few things in a newly purchased house is not unusual so his wanting to consider changing a couple of things is quite reasonable.

 

More generally, there are existing houses in Thailand that are not built to "Thai standards".  How do you know his house was built to Thai standards?  He only mentions two aspects of it which may, just may, be.

[RamenRaven]

27 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

 

I had the same problem many years ago, and after many discussions, the only way to help the problem was to take off all the cement/render up to the 2nd floor beam, smooth it out nicely and repaint (as this was only cosmetic, it did not pose any structural problems). That gave me another 10-12cm, which saved the hitting my head problem and still looked good.

 

Trying to modify the step heights, or landing areas could create a multitude of problems.

Great tip. Hopefully this can work in my case.

 

Hang on tight guys, I'll get some photos in a bit.

I'm not currently in my new house since there's some remodeling going on downstairs.

[Dante99]

30 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

the only way to help the problem was to take off all the cement/render up to the 2nd floor beam, smooth it out nicely and repaint (as this was only cosmetic, it did not pose any structural problems). That gave me another 10-12cm,

10-12 cm of render under the beam seems like an unusually large amount

 

 A couple of centimeters as Crossy mentioned would seem more usual

[RamenRaven]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

I think he knew what he was buying and is generally happy with it.  I also think that wanting to modify a few things in a newly purchased house is not unusual so his wanting to consider changing a couple of things is quite reasonable.

 

More generally, there are existing houses in Thailand that are not built to "Thai standards".  How do you know his house was built to Thai standards?  He only mentions two aspects of it which may, just may, be.

Almost all of the house that I bought is actually built to US/UK standards.

I've painstakingly measured everything.

 

Thai friends commented on how things seem to be built higher in the house.

 

All doors are 2 m.

The top of all of the bathroom sink bowls are 38 inches (96.5 cm) high, which is much higher than usual than most Thai homes. Standard sink height in the US is 29-36 inches. Shorter Thais using the sink might have to reach up a bit to wash their hands.

Ceilings are 2.9 m.

The tops of the bathroom mirrors are all 2.1 m high, and I can still see ample space above my head while standing up straight. All windows are set up quite high.

Toilet seats are 16 cm high (too high can mean a lot of straining).

 

That's the weird thing about newly built Thai homes. They try to make some things Western-style with dimensions that might actually not be so comfortable for shorter Thais, while some of the other things are still built for shorter people.

 

The bathroom sinks are higher even than in Western homes, but the stairway headroom and kitchen sink are too low. Go figure.

 

[RamenRaven]

Does anyone know what the minimum Thai standard is for stair head clearance?

 

In the US, OSHA says it's 80 inches or 203 cm.

 

[Kwasaki]

Anything that needs alterations in a building is possible, if you can't do it yourself you need a structual engineer to look at the house plans and the actual finished of the house stairway headroom structure.

[transam]

When I bought a house land combo they showed me an example house, the stair angle/rake was ridiculous, so I thought about a fix and told them what I wanted, all done, no problem, by simply doing away with a side entrance door and changing a window to a sliding door.

Sorry, that doesn't help you, though....????

[couchpotato]

25 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

10-12 cm of render under the beam seems like an unusually large amount

 

 A couple of centimeters as Crossy mentioned would seem more usual

Agree, but in the Thai way, the builder originally thought it was too high, so compensated with the extra render, so I just reversed it, and it worked out.

As we know, no house is ever the same, and most builders have different ideas and ways of building.

Unfortunately I was away working when that house was built, but these days with all my builds, I supervise every single day (morning and afternoon), so problems are changed on the spot...saves a lot of headaches later.