Special master appointed to review documents from Mar-a-Lago search; DOJ request to revive criminal probe rejected

[Chomper Higgot]

The DOJ have lodged an appeal to overturn the Judge’s ruling with the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeal.

 

The court has accepted the petition and has given Trump until Tuesday to respond.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Apparently you think that Biden just let the FBI raid a former president without giving that an OK.

Yeah right!

Apparently you think it’s not necessary to inform the sitting President that the home of his predecessor is about to be searched for stolen documents relating to national security.

 

Perhaps you believe the, now private citizen, who has not accepted the results of the election that removed him from office, wouldn’t immediately respond to the lawful search by engaging in fermenting anger and discord amongst his millions of supporters.

 

Perhaps you believe the risks relating to a former President, who together with many of his followers, does not accept the results of the election that removed him engaging in fermenting anger and discord is of no concern at all to the sitting President.

 

Of course the DOJ ‘informed’ President Biden of the investigation and search.

 

There are obvious reasons why it’s a good idea to keep the President informed of lawful actions by the DoJ might give rise to dangerous political stunts by the subject of their investigations and his millions of supporters.

 

Not least of all his past behavior and the past response of many of his supporters.

 

 

The politicization of this lawful search is all coming from Trump.

 

Trump’s message to Garland which paraphrased read ‘nice country you’ve got there, shame if something happened to it’, 

is precisely why it is important for the DoJ to keep the sitting President informed of its moves against Trump.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[KanchanaburiGuy]

8 hours ago, candide said:

No misunderstanding when sentences are not cherry picked. Here's the full paragraph. What do you conclude from it?

During receipt of the production, FPOTUS COUNSEL 1 stated he was advised all the records that came from the White House were stored in one location within Mar-a-Lago, the STORAGE ROOM, and the boxes of records in the STORAGE ROOM were "the remaining repository" of records from the White House. FPOTUS COUNSEL 1 fwiher stated he was not advised there were any records in any private office space or other location in Mar-a-Lago. The agents and DOJ COUNSEL were pem1itted to see the STORAGE ROOM and observed that approximately fifty to fifty-five boxes remained in the STORAGE ROOM

I conclude the same thing I hinted at in my first post on this particular tangent...........

 

That all these many, many claims that "Trump's attorneys lied"............ "Lied! Lied! Lied!"............ is not actually supported by the documents themselves.

 

The documents themselves suggest the attorneys did the same thing attorneys always tell their clients to do................ "Only answer the question asked; don't elaborate. Giving more information than you've been asked for is not you being helpful. It's you being foolish."

 

Saying "I've been advised" is an admission of two things:

 

First, it's an admission that what is being conveyed is not first-hand knowledge.

 

Second, it's an admission that the knowledge may not be complete or all-encompassing. That it includes only those things about which a person "has been advised".......... but not necessarily everything there is to know about it.

 

Thus far, I've see no evidence that the attorneys lied. I merely see them answering the questions they've been asked, and no more.

 

 

[LosLobo]

23 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I conclude the same thing I hinted at in my first post on this particular tangent...........

 

That all these many, many claims that "Trump's attorneys lied"............ "Lied! Lied! Lied!"............ is not actually supported by the documents themselves.

 

The documents themselves suggest the attorneys did the same thing attorneys always tell their clients to do................ "Only answer the question asked; don't elaborate. Giving more information than you've been asked for is not you being helpful. It's you being foolish."

 

Saying "I've been advised" is an admission of two things:

 

First, it's an admission that what is being conveyed is not first-hand knowledge.

 

Second, it's an admission that the knowledge may not be complete or all-encompassing. That it includes only those things about which a person "has been advised".......... but not necessarily everything there is to know about it.

 

Thus far, I've see no evidence that the attorneys lied. I merely see them answering the questions they've been asked, and no more.

 

 

"Thus far, I've see no evidence that the attorneys lied".

 

Because you haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Perhaps you haven't looked.

 

Have you seen evidence that the world is not flat?

Have you seen this?

"A lawyer for Trump, Christina Bobb, also signed a statement saying that all of the information requested by the government had been handed back.

That information turned out to be false. When agents executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago on August 8, they found stashes of highly confidential records, including in Trump's offices, haphazardly kept alongside his personal items.

Analysts say the new evidence indicates Trump himself was likely behind the attorneys false claims".

 

Trump was likely behind a false statement to the DOJ about secret documents being held at Mar-a-Lago, legal analysts say - Business Insider India

Edited September 18, 2022 by LosLobo

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I conclude the same thing I hinted at in my first post on this particular tangent...........

 

That all these many, many claims that "Trump's attorneys lied"............ "Lied! Lied! Lied!"............ is not actually supported by the documents themselves.

 

The documents themselves suggest the attorneys did the same thing attorneys always tell their clients to do................ "Only answer the question asked; don't elaborate. Giving more information than you've been asked for is not you being helpful. It's you being foolish."

 

Saying "I've been advised" is an admission of two things:

 

First, it's an admission that what is being conveyed is not first-hand knowledge.

 

Second, it's an admission that the knowledge may not be complete or all-encompassing. That it includes only those things about which a person "has been advised".......... but not necessarily everything there is to know about it.

 

Thus far, I've see no evidence that the attorneys lied. I merely see them answering the questions they've been asked, and no more.

 

 

The first post you responded to on this made the claim:

 

Have you forgotten that his lawyers acting on the advice of an unnamed party, falsely asserted to the Justice Dept that all documents marked classified had been returned? 

 

You are the one saying the Lawyers "Lied! Lied! Lied!" not anyone else.

 

What is clear someone held back information that more documents were there and wanted to keep that hidden.

[SunnyinBangrak]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The DOJ have lodged an appeal to overturn the Judge’s ruling with the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeal.

 

The court has accepted the petition and has given Trump until Tuesday to respond.

 

I just can't understand why the DOJ is so worried about the special master. If everything was kosher they would be only too pleased to have this raid, the origins and how it was conducted scrutinized properly. Legal cases are not a race or a game of timing, it must be done correctly and within the constraints of the law. If that doesn't help the democrats in the midterms, that's tough. Reminds me of the frequently posted here saying, nothing to hide nothing to fear.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, SunnyinBangrak said:

I just can't understand why the DOJ is so worried about the special master. If everything was kosher they would be only too pleased to have this raid, the origins and how it was conducted scrutinized properly. Legal cases are not a race or a game of timing, it must be done correctly and within the constraints of the law. If that doesn't help the democrats in the midterms, that's tough. Reminds me of the frequently posted here saying, nothing to hide nothing to fear.

 

 

The job of the special master is to review documents seized in the ‘lawful search’ (not a raid) and advise if any the documents are subject to ‘privilege’.

 

The special master does not get to examine the rational for the search (that was examined and approved by the judge who authorized the search warrant.

 

The special master does not get to examine how the lawful search was conducted, that’s the job of the courts if Trump has evidence of illegal or non constitutional behavior by the lawfully authorized search team.

 

The DoJ and US National Security agencies have a very clear reason to avoid any delay to this critically important investigation.

 

I look forward to the appeal court ruling, all indications are they want to get this settled ASAP.

[ThailandRyan]

23 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I just can't understand why the DOJ is so worried about the special master. If everything was kosher they would be only too pleased to have this raid, the origins and how it was conducted scrutinized properly. Legal cases are not a race or a game of timing, it must be done correctly and within the constraints of the law. If that doesn't help the democrats in the midterms, that's tough. Reminds me of the frequently posted here saying, nothing to hide nothing to fear.

 

 

  This whole charade of a special master appointment keeps the DOJ from reviewing the documentation and finding out what is still missing which can pose a danger to the US.  It also keeps Trumps from being indicted with all of the evidence put together, and possibly allows him to continue making threats.  Your hero is nothing but a true liar, crook, and does not have the US's best interests at heart, only his own interests.  Your last statement says mountains about Trump.  If he had nothing to hide or nothing to fear then why file for a special master to slow things down, as well as giving him more time to hide more files....

 

What comes to mind, is a drug house we raided once upon a time, and the inhabitants tried to hide the stash and money under the floorboards while we were gaining entrance.  The owner wanted his lawyer present before we entered the house with our warrant, delaying and obstructing, the same as your beloved Orange Man is doing.

[SunnyinBangrak]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The DoJ and US National Security agencies have a very clear reason to avoid any delay to this critically important investigation

Avoiding delay you say? I'm thinking if these documents were so critically serious then waiting 2 years after Trump finished his term and decided just before the midterms to launch this unprecedented raid could be construed as particularly careless. Dawdling around for 2 years while America was under such grave threat looks like a bigger crime than Trump allegedly having classified documents at MAL in the 1st place.

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Avoiding delay you say? I'm thinking if these documents were so critically serious then waiting 2 years after Trump finished his term and decided just before the midterms to launch this unprecedented raid could be construed as particularly careless. Dawdling around for 2 years while America was under such grave threat looks like a bigger crime than Trump allegedly having classified documents at MAL in the 1st place.

 

You are full of surprises.  Do you really think the the National Archives waited two years for the former POTUS to return the documents before they started asking for them?  This warrant was the final culmination after the National Archives and the DOJ were rebuffed time and time again.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I conclude the same thing I hinted at in my first post on this particular tangent...........

 

That all these many, many claims that "Trump's attorneys lied"............ "Lied! Lied! Lied!"............ is not actually supported by the documents themselves.

 

The documents themselves suggest the attorneys did the same thing attorneys always tell their clients to do................ "Only answer the question asked; don't elaborate. Giving more information than you've been asked for is not you being helpful. It's you being foolish."

 

Saying "I've been advised" is an admission of two things:

 

First, it's an admission that what is being conveyed is not first-hand knowledge.

 

Second, it's an admission that the knowledge may not be complete or all-encompassing. That it includes only those things about which a person "has been advised".......... but not necessarily everything there is to know about it.

 

Thus far, I've see no evidence that the attorneys lied. I merely see them answering the questions they've been asked, and no more.

 

 

The FBI are investigating a serious crime, the theft of documents containing national security secrets.

 

Trump’s lawyers made statements that all documents had been returned - this we now know was a lie.

 

If Trump’s lawyers wish to claim they made their declaration on the base I’d of what a third party advised them, then they are not guilty of the crime of giving false statement, they are however witnesses to the crime of concealment (listed in the search warrant).

 

As witnesses to a crime they may now be required to give testimony on who advised them all documents have been returned. They can of course refuse to give testimony at risk of being charged with obstruction of Justice.

 

They can’t claim ‘attorney client privilege’ because the ‘Crime Fraud Exception’ applies.

 

So they are in a trap of their own making.

 

Had they recognized the serious of the matter, and the duplicity of their client, they would have checked themselves before submitting their statement. 
 

Obviously they did not, so now they need to point the finger at the person who was attempting concealment - who might that be?

 

Their first mistake of course was going to work for Trump, all this trouble he’s brought upon them, and he probably won’t pay their invoices.
 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Avoiding delay you say? I'm thinking if these documents were so critically serious then waiting 2 years after Trump finished his term and decided just before the midterms to launch this unprecedented raid could be construed as particularly careless. Dawdling around for 2 years while America was under such grave threat looks like a bigger crime than Trump allegedly having classified documents at MAL in the 1st place.

 

Nobody is dawdling now.

 

And look who’s getting mighty upset about the progress being made.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Avoiding delay you say? I'm thinking if these documents were so critically serious then waiting 2 years after Trump finished his term and decided just before the midterms to launch this unprecedented raid could be construed as particularly careless. Dawdling around for 2 years while America was under such grave threat looks like a bigger crime than Trump allegedly having classified documents at MAL in the 1st place.

 

First off, it wasn't known that there were documents with serious security implications for most of the time. The document that were originally returned weren't in that class. So only NARA was involved. Apparently, it was only after some actual witnesses reported that there may have been highly classified documents present, that a more urgent effort was triggered.. The fact is that Trump violated the law, a law he signed, a law which actually increased the penalties for illicit possession of government documents. And he was treated with kid gloves for a long time He got special, favored treatment. Despite the fact that he was not cooperative with the government. And just as a further note, Mike Pence had no problem complying with the law. 

[riclag]

38 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Avoiding delay you say? I'm thinking if these documents were so critically serious then waiting 2 years after Trump finished his term and decided just before the midterms to launch this unprecedented raid could be construed as particularly careless. Dawdling around for 2 years while America was under such grave threat looks like a bigger crime than Trump allegedly having classified documents at MAL in the 1st place.

 

Almost 2 years with these declassified docs with classified markings and the only security issues were from the dishonest doj/ fbi  leaks reported to the media according to court documents !

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/denial-of-justice-department-s-request-for-a-partial-stay/5a04a0af482fe04f/full.pdf

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

Almost 2 years with these declassified docs with classified markings and the only security issues were from the dishonest doj/ fbi  leaks reported to the media according to court documents !

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/denial-of-justice-department-s-request-for-a-partial-stay/5a04a0af482fe04f/full.pdf

 

You know this for a fact? You know that no one who shouldn't have seen these documents did get to see them? We know that one very shady character managed to get close to Trump. Why not others? 

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, riclag said:

Almost 2 years with these declassified docs with classified markings and the only security issues were from the dishonest doj/ fbi  leaks reported to the media according to court documents !

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/denial-of-justice-department-s-request-for-a-partial-stay/5a04a0af482fe04f/full.pdf

 

A lawyer representing Donald Trump in a New York tax fraud probe told a court that she thoroughly searched his Mar-a-Lago home for documents - less than a week before the Justice Department subpoenaed him in an investigation over his handling of highly classified records.

Though the investigations are separate, the revelation that Alina Habba performed a 'diligent' search of Trump's office raises new questions about the level of exposure other people had to top secret government files that the ex-president was keeping at his Florida home.

[placeholder]

And in related news:

Trump's former accounting firm turns over docs to Congress

The House Committee on Oversight and Reform has begun receiving documents from Mazars USA, which was Donald Trump's longtime accounting firm before it severed ties.

"After a yearslong legal fight, the House Oversight Committee has received a first trove of documents from the firm, which recently entered into a legal settlement agreeing to produce a range of financial documents from several years before Mr. Trump took office and during his early presidency. Mazars said in February it could no longer stand behind a decade of annual financial statements it had prepared for the Trump Organization," The New York Times reported Saturday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-former-accounting-firm-turns-over-docs-to-congress/ar-AA11WVTT?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited September 18, 2022 by metisdead
6. After pasting a reply format the text you have pasted. An easy way to do this is to click the "Paste as plain text instead" option at the bottom of the reply box.

[tilaceer]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I just can't understand why the DOJ is so worried about the special master. If everything was kosher they would be only too pleased to have this raid, the origins and how it was conducted scrutinized properly. Legal cases are not a race or a game of timing, it must be done correctly and within the constraints of the law. If that doesn't help the democrats in the midterms, that's tough. Reminds me of the frequently posted here saying, nothing to hide nothing to fear.

 

 

If you bothered to research what the DOJ's brief is in this case, you would be aware that it is not about the appointment of a special master. Indeed, considering who has been selected as the arbitrator, this could well explode in Trumps face.
 

The DOJ is asking the Appeals Court to allow the FBI to regain access to about 100 documents retrieved from MAL, as this interferes with an ongoing criminal probe.
 

Judge Cannon has made so many mistakes in trying to justify her decisions that it is a distinct possibility that, even if the Trump appointees were amongst the three selected to review this appeal, they would not rule in favour of Cannon. The Trump appointees are amongst the most conservative of the Appeals court and just might act in accordance with the law, and not because of their own political viewpoints.

 

" Legal cases are not a race or a game of timing, it must be done correctly and within the constraints of the law. "  Yet we have Trumpers on this forum continually bellowing.."arrest him now, why hasn't he been arrested yet ? "

[nauseus]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:17 AM, placeholder said:

I think you've been so conditioned by the reign of Biden's predecessor, that you think it normal for Presidents to intervene in the workings of law enforcement. There is absolutely no evidence that Biden specifically gave an OK for the FBI's search of Mar a Lago. There is a ton of evidence that the govt went out of its way to avoid making this a criminal case. For a year, NARA negotiated with Trump for the return of documents. It was only after their request was met with a blatant lie, that the FBI conducted the search.

Ton of evidence? Nobody has produced anything and everybody still knows nothing.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ton of evidence? Nobody has produced anything and everybody still knows nothing.

Really?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/detailed-list-fbi-agents-found-mar-lago-rcna46075

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ton of evidence? Nobody has produced anything and everybody still knows nothing.

Poor reading skills or a bad memory??

 

Or of course it could be the well-known, and often experienced phenomenon on this thread, of, "trumpie's disease", whereby they live in an alternate universe, where trump is godlike, never lies, never cheats or steals and is a fine upstanding character – – yeah right!

Edited September 18, 2022 by xylophone

[ThailandRyan]

38 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ton of evidence? Nobody has produced anything and everybody still knows nothing.

Go on believing that

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/detailed-list-fbi-agents-found-mar-lago-rcna46075

Your detailed list is low on detail. Now where is the "ton of evidence" that the govt went out of its way to avoid making this a criminal case? 

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Go on believing that

I'll believe anything fairly proven in court.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Your detailed list is low on detail. Now where is the "ton of evidence" that the govt went out of its way to avoid making this a criminal case? 

A sad, but expected retort. 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your detailed list is low on detail. Now where is the "ton of evidence" that the govt went out of its way to avoid making this a criminal case? 

Pretty sure you're trolling, evidence everywhere for this

 

Inside the 20-Month Fight to Get Trump to Return Presidential Material

The government tried repeatedly for more than a year and a half to get the former president to give back documents from his time in office. Finally, it resorted to a search of his property.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

A sad, but expected retort. 

Relevant to the post I replied to but you probably missed that.

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'll believe anything fairly proven in court.

Innocence until proven guilty in other words...I don't believe the Orange man will walk from anything, that even includes his Financials..  

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Pretty sure you're trolling, evidence everywhere for this

 

Inside the 20-Month Fight to Get Trump to Return Presidential Material

The government tried repeatedly for more than a year and a half to get the former president to give back documents from his time in office. Finally, it resorted to a search of his property.

Evidence?  

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Innocence until proven guilty in other words...I don't believe the Orange man will walk from anything, that even includes his Financials..  

In your words. You are free to believe as you like.