One question concerning a Last Will and Testament

[Keith5588]

Hi,
I am from the UK. Can a Last Will & Testament for all my assets that I have in Thailand be written in English only with no Thai language copy?
This has been on my mind for a while as I have read a few times that it needs a copy in Thai language as well as English but to me that does not make any sense. I cannot read Thai, how can I possibly sign something that I do not understand?
After I die then my Will can be translated if required.
Any help much appreciated.

A little explanation.
My Thai girlfriend and myself have been living together in Thailand for the past 5 years.
During the Covid lockdown nearly 2 years ago I researched on the internet then wrote 2 Wills myself, one for all my Thai assets and another separate Will for all my UK assets.
I have no children and I have never been married, no dependents, my parents have die, so basically no family. My Thai girlfriends children are grow up. My assets in both countries are very simply described.
I am confident that I wrote very clear Wills in English language, in both stating my girlfriend as executor and also leaving everything to her. I signed both Wills in the presence of witnesses who then signed.

Thank you
Keith

[Farmerslife]

For a will to be legally enforceable in Thailand it must be written in Thai. You can have a copy in English but the legal document is the Thai language version. A reputable law firm will draw up copies in both languages.

 

If you were concerned that the Thai version might not accurately reflect your wishes you could have it translated by an independent company before signing the will.

[Keith5588]

14 minutes ago, Farmerslife said:

For a will to be legally enforceable in Thailand it must be written in Thai. You can have a copy in English but the legal document is the Thai language version. A reputable law firm will draw up copies in both languages.

 

If you were concerned that the Thai version might not accurately reflect your wishes you could have it translated by an independent company before signing the will.

Thank you @Farmerslife I will make more enquiries. I still do not understand, it is my Will and I need to fully understand it. If I die my girlfriend knows where to find the Thai Will written in English. She could then go to a lawyer and have it legally translated and notarised if necessary. You have confirmed what I have previously read.

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

Thank you @Farmerslife I will make more enquiries. I still do not understand, it is my Will and I need to fully understand it. If I die my girlfriend knows where to find the Thai Will written in English. She could then go to a lawyer and have it legally translated and notarised if necessary. You have confirmed what I have previously read.

Imagine a Thai person would live in the UK and write a will in Thai language. And then the person dies and someone official should read the will. Do you think that official will be able to read Thai?

qed

[Keith5588]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine a Thai person would live in the UK and write a will in Thai language. And then the person dies and someone official should read the will. Do you think that official will be able to read Thai?

qed

I agree not many people in the UK would be able to read Thai.  My thoughts are that if this Thai male in the UK dies then his English girlfriend should be able to take his Will to be officially translated into English and notarised then that official translation should be accepted by the UK court. 

I think it would be unfair to the Thai male living in the UK who cannot read any English to sign an English written Will that he does not understand.

I really am missing something?

[Farmerslife]

For a will to be legally binding your signing of the document needs to be done in the presence of two witnesses who will also be required to sign the document. (Incidentally, these witnesses cannot be beneficiaries.) 

 You could not have a version, notarised or not, that was produced after your death. It would be impossible to confirm whether the document was genuine or not.    

[Keith5588]

11 minutes ago, Farmerslife said:

For a will to be legally binding your signing of the document needs to be done in the presence of two witnesses who will also be required to sign the document. (Incidentally, these witnesses cannot be beneficiaries.) 

 You could not have a version, notarised or not, that was produced after your death. It would be impossible to confirm whether the document was genuine or not.    

Thank you @Farmerslife but please read my original post. I stated that I wrote the Wills and then signed then in front of witnesses who then signed the Wills.  They are not beneficiaries, I was aware of that.

Without going into too much detail I think I made very good clear Wills, including my gf's ID, her registered address in her village where she owns a house etc.  etc.

These Wills where written and signed by me and 2 witnesses almost 2 years ago. 

The UK Will I am happy with.

The Thai Will is in English language only.

[Joe Farang]

Think back to the UK scenario again. If there is a dispute regarding a will and the exact meaning of it. The legal people, Judges etc need to be able to read and understand what the original says. Judges or any legal system cannot be expected to deal with documents in 100 different languages. Why not just get married  then she will get everything when you die, maybe even a widows pension from UK

[Sparktrader]

5 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

I agree not many people in the UK would be able to read Thai.  My thoughts are that if this Thai male in the UK dies then his English girlfriend should be able to take his Will to be officially translated into English and notarised then that official translation should be accepted by the UK court. 

I think it would be unfair to the Thai male living in the UK who cannot read any English to sign an English written Will that he does not understand.

I really am missing something?

Yes you cant make up your own rules. Wills are to be written in local official language. Otherwise you would have German, French etc

 

50 different languages

[Sparktrader]

6 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

think it would be unfair to the Thai male living in the UK who cannot read any English to sign an English written Will that he does not understand.

I really am missing something?

The Thai would get a Thai person to translate before signing.

 

Plus its pretty easy to translate language. Simply download an ap from Playstore.

 

Isaan follks speak Isaan and Thai. Only Thai is used on official papers. 

 

Any will not signed off correctly is invalid. Any will not written in official language invalid.

 

You cant have people writing wills on beer coasters.

 

 

[malt25]

"I am from the UK. Can a Last Will & Testament for all my assets that I have in Thailand be written in English only with no Thai language copy?" NO !  You've been given the correct advice. Move on.

[nigelforbes]

Your Will in Thailand should be written in your native language and then translated (by a third party) and certified by MOFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs). As a non Thai you cannot be expected to be fluent in Thai and to have understood and agreed with a document written in a foreign language, the will can potentially be challenged on that basis. The cost to translate a one page will shouldn't be more than about 500 baht or so, the MOFA charge is very similar.

[Keith5588]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:35 AM, nigelforbes said:

Your Will in Thailand should be written in your native language and then translated (by a third party) and certified by MOFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs). As a non Thai you cannot be expected to be fluent in Thai and to have understood and agreed with a document written in a foreign language, the will can potentially be challenged on that basis. The cost to translate a one page will shouldn't be more than about 500 baht or so, the MOFA charge is very similar.

Thank you @nigelforbes

[nigelforbes]

Whoever does your translation into Thai must be prepared to make any changes required by MOFA before they agree to sign off. And they will require changes, sometimes two or three iterations, depending on which office you use. MOFA are regarded as THE authority on translation into Thai.

[Keith5588]

10 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Whoever does your translation into Thai must be prepared to make any changes required by MOFA before they agree to sign off. And they will require changes, sometimes two or three iterations, depending on which office you use. MOFA are regarded as THE authority on translation into Thai.

Thanks again @nigelforbes My Thai Will is in English language with very clear instructions etc.  I started this post because someone put doubt in my mind and so I was prepared to have my Wills checked by a Lawyer.  I now feel again that I have done things correctly. I believe that no Thai translation needs to be done until just before it is presented at a Thai court before probate.  I have left details of a Lawyer for my girlfriend to contact, then my girlfriend can have the translation done as you describe or what the Lawyer or court says it needs. 

[arithai12]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:58 PM, Keith5588 said:

I am from the UK. Can a Last Will & Testament for all my assets that I have in Thailand be written in English only with no Thai language copy?

 

I just went through the same. The testament is written in Thai, only, for my Thailand assets. Redacted by a City Office notary, witnessed, translated to me by a person that I entirely trust, signed, a copy deposited at the local city office, the original with my wife. Unassailable by any hypothetical contestants.

As the document pertains assets which are in Thailand, I find this logical.

btw, although I do not read Thai in general, the document is simple enough (mainly condo, bank accounts) that I could more or less follow even the reading by the Thai notary.

 

If you want it your way, then have the document written, witnessed and notarized in the UK. Be mindful that in this case it will have to follow the UK law (e.g., if you have descendants or wife in the UK maybe they cannot be excluded entirely). Then your gf will have to jump some extra hurdles such as to obtain a legally valid translation, possibly at your embassy, to act on it. You can't get away from the fact that, if you are leaving assets in Thailand to her, they can be released only upon presenting a valid Thai document.

 

 

[arithai12]

6 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

....I now feel again that I have done things correctly. I believe that no Thai translation needs to be done until just before it is presented at a Thai court before probate.

....

It all depends on the compromise you want to accept, between making it easy and fast for you now, or making it easy and fast for your gf to benefit after your demise.

[Keith5588]

11 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

It all depends on the compromise you want to accept, between making it easy and fast for you now, or making it easy and fast for your gf to benefit after your demise.

Thank you @arithai12 .   

My Thai Will is in English language, the only language that I understand. I would not sign it if it was written in Thai language.

I can understand you doing so because you were very confident that the Thai translation was correct.

If I died my girlfriend will take my Will to a Lawyer in Thailand to help process the probate at a Thai court.   At this point why can't my Will be officially translated into Thai language for the court if necessary?

Why can't this all be done while living in Thailand?

This is what I am having a lot of trouble understanding.

 

[JimGant]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:15 PM, Farmerslife said:

For a will to be legally enforceable in Thailand it must be written in Thai. You can have a copy in English but the legal document is the Thai language version.

Wrong. The legal document can be the English version, with a copy needed in Thai to process thru the Thai court system. A Google search will make this clear.

Quote

Does my will need to be in the Thai language? A valid will may be written in either Thai or English, but, if written in English only, will need to be translated to Thai before presentation to any relevant authority.

 

On 9/28/2022 at 3:56 PM, Keith5588 said:

If I died my girlfriend will take my Will to a Lawyer in Thailand to help process the probate at a Thai court.   At this point why can't my Will be officially translated into Thai language for the court if necessary?

Why can't this all be done while living in Thailand?

This is what I am having a lot of trouble understanding.

OP, you're good to go. Don't know what your assets are, but maybe, even if bank accounts, will not have to go thru probate thus no need to get an up-front Thai translation. Even if you had a single Will, written in the UK, that says something like, I leave all my worldwide assets to blah blah -- it, as a foreign Will, would be acceptable in Thailand:

 

Quote

Foreigners can but do not have to make a separate Last Will for Thailand as foreign wills are enforceable in Thailand.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

A Google search will make this clear.

That convinced me.

Next time when I need legal advice, I will just google it. And then I choose whatever link I like most.

 

Your honor, it was written on Google, really!

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That convinced me.

Next time when I need legal advice, I will just google it. And then I choose whatever link I like most.

Yes, doing a little background research before you spout off erroneous information on a forum -- would be a nice touch. And much more helpful to the poor soul  looking for solid advice.

[Keith5588]

On 10/2/2022 at 11:29 AM, JimGant said:

Wrong. The legal document can be the English version, with a copy needed in Thai to process thru the Thai court system. A Google search will make this clear.

 

OP, you're good to go. Don't know what your assets are, but maybe, even if bank accounts, will not have to go thru probate thus no need to get an up-front Thai translation. Even if you had a single Will, written in the UK, that says something like, I leave all my worldwide assets to blah blah -- it, as a foreign Will, would be acceptable in Thailand:

 

 

@JimGant You seem like a very intelligent helpful person, thank you very much.  Unfortunately Thailand does like to have lot's of paperwork and a few weeks ago I did sign bank forms written in Thai while inside a main bank while opening new bank accounts. But when it is something important like your own Will that you have total control of I am amazed that some people think that it best to sign the Will that is written in a language that they do not understand? 
Soon after I posted on here I received the strange comments so I also posted elsewhere. There I received good advice as I have from you. Some comments were from a Lawyer (not a Lawyer in a private company looking for work) and they said exactly as you in that later a Thai court can have my Will translated into Thai or request that it is done, if they wish.  It's common sense really and what I originally thought.
Thanks also for your other comment about can have just the one Will, that makes sense. I did spend quite a lot of time 2 years ago forming the Wills, condensing them to just the one A4 page each. My UK Will clearly states it is only for my UK assets. I also mentioned that I have a separate Will for my Thai assets.  My Thai Will states similar. I am now happy again that they are good.
Thanks again Jim

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:34 AM, Sparktrader said:

You cant have people writing wills on beer coasters.

Actually, you could, as long as it is signed and witnessed correctly.  A will is just a piece of paper with words written on it, and signed and witnessed.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:15 PM, Farmerslife said:

For a will to be legally enforceable in Thailand it must be written in Thai.

That is incorrect, wills in Thailand can be written in Thai or English but, if written in English only, will need to be translated to Thai before presentation to any relevant authority.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:01 AM, Sparktrader said:

you cant make up your own rules. Wills are to be written in local official language.

An English language will in Thailand would not be "making up one's own rules".  Wills written in English are valid, they just have to be translated before being processed for probate.

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

An English language will in Thailand would not be "making up one's own rules".  Wills written in English are valid, they just have to be translated before being processed for probate.

Do you have a link to prove it

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

An English language will in Thailand would not be "making up one's own rules".  Wills written in English are valid, they just have to be translated before being processed for probate.

Do you have a link to prove it

Yes, I have a few...

https://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/thailand-last-will-and-testament-faqs.php

https://legal.co.th/resources/thailand-real-estate-property-law/title/can-thai-will-be-written-english/

 

Do you have a link to prove what you stated?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:58 PM, Keith5588 said:

I am from the UK. Can a Last Will & Testament for all my assets that I have in Thailand be written in English only with no Thai language copy?

Yes.  It would have to be translated into Thai before being processed for probate, though,

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, I have a few...

https://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/thailand-last-will-and-testament-faqs.php

https://legal.co.th/resources/thailand-real-estate-property-law/title/can-thai-will-be-written-english/

 

Do you have a link to prove what you stated?

It is not so much a matter of testamentary intent. You can do it all in theory in English and then have it translated but it is best to do it all up front so that there is no question that at the time the person drafted their Will, 

 

So your lawyer link says Thai as well. Otherwise it can be challenged.

 

Thought so.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/25/2022 at 12:52 AM, Joe Farang said:

If there is a dispute regarding a will and the exact meaning of it. The legal people, Judges etc need to be able to read and understand what the original says. Judges or any legal system cannot be expected to deal with documents in 100 different languages.

They wouldn't have to deal with any language except Thai, the will would be translated for probate.