Mystery leaks hit Russian undersea gas pipelines to Europe

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Eleftheros said:

The media is supposed to do more than release statements - it's supposed to investigate.

 

Major stories like this would usually spawn a raft of questioning articles every day - but nowadays that only happens if it is a story that fits the approved narrative.

Are the media going to don their dive suits and go down 70 meters to investigate? I thought the Swedish investigation team was doing that first as we speak? Once they report I'm sure international media including Russia will be splashing it across the internet

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

The Western media has gone extremely quiet on this story, which would hardly be expected if it could be pinned on Russia or its allies. Methinks they doth protest too little.

Nonsense. It is to be expected when there's nothing new to report. Once Sweden gets a closer look, presumably there will be something newsworthy.

[Gweiloman]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:22 PM, gearbox said:

That sounds right as many Asian energy multinationals and state energy companies have long term contracts with the Australian LNG producers. The gas prices are linked to the price of oil, but the price of oil didn't go that high. Not hard to imagine if they have surplus they would sell it at the spot market.

Actually, China is also reselling US LNG to Europe at a huge profit. 
 

https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/google-news-update/china-is-rerouting-us-liquefied-natural-gas-to-europe/07249008-b39e-4cd8-bdfd-4a383e4c941b?mod=error_page

 

Like I said, despicable, profiting off Europeans suffering.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

The media is supposed to do more than release statements - it's supposed to investigate.

 

Major stories like this would usually spawn a raft of questioning articles every day - but nowadays that only happens if it is a story that fits the approved narrative.

And how do you know that they are not investigating? It takes research and digging to do an investigative report. At least a real one. Of course, if, you prefer Tass or some other Russian news source, you can probably enjoy an invented investigative report daily.

[Gweiloman]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:23 PM, Bkk Brian said:

 

Nothing you've said is substantiated by evidence as there is no evidence on who did this yet just opinions.

Many a court case has been determined by motive, ability and opportunity. Only one nation fulfills all 3 unequivocally.

 

Would love to say I rest my case but that’s premature.

[Eleftheros]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Are the media going to don their dive suits and go down 70 meters to investigate? I thought the Swedish investigation team was doing that first as we speak? Once they report I'm sure international media including Russia will be splashing it across the internet

It is not the aim of journalism just to wait patiently for a government report and parrot it unquestioningly.

 

The job of the media is - or used to be - to do the investigative work by maintaining a range of contacts who could eventually connect them with the people who don the dive suits, and garner information and informed comment through that and other methods.

 

But the media seems willfully uninterested. More, of course, is being made of the climate change effects that may be caused by the release of all this methane than on the sabotage itself.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Many a court case has been determined by motive, ability and opportunity. Only one nation fulfills all 3 unequivocally.

 

Would love to say I rest my case but that’s premature.

Yes I agree only Russia fits the bill on all points but as mentioned better wait for the investigation and see if they uncover any evidence or who carried out the explosions.

[placeholder]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Many a court case has been determined by motive, ability and opportunity. Only one nation fulfills all 3 unequivocally.

 

Would love to say I rest my case but that’s premature.

There have been plenty of motives offered for Russia to sabotage the pipeline. And it certainly has the means and plenty of opportunity. So, if that's the nation you're referring to, then I thinik you've got a strong case. But it still needs a bit of work.

[placeholder]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:38 PM, Gweiloman said:

 

Well, I jread in Tass yestersay that the Ukrainian push in Kherson had ended in disaster. Today I read reports that the Ukrainians have advanced far beyond the point where they were supposed to have met disaster yesterday. And, of course, this is typical of the official Russian media which pretty much portrays the war oops! I mean Special Military Operation as an unmitigated disaster for the Ukrainians.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

It is not the aim of journalism just to wait patiently for a government report and parrot it unquestioningly.

 

The job of the media is - or used to be - to do the investigative work by maintaining a range of contacts who could eventually connect them with the people who don the dive suits, and garner information and informed comment through that and other methods.

 

But the media seems willfully uninterested. More, of course, is being made of the climate change effects that may be caused by the release of all this methane than on the sabotage itself.

5 million search results in Google, some from just hours ago, knock yourself out

"nord stream sabotage"

 

 

[Eleftheros]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And how do you know that they are not investigating? It takes research and digging to do an investigative report. At least a real one. Of course, if, you prefer Tass or some other Russian news source, you can probably enjoy an invented investigative report daily.

If they were investigating with an actual desire to find out something, the airwaves would be full of speculation, comments from marginally qualified people, interviews with local villagers (or fishermen, perhaps), radar tracks.

 

If it was a story they liked, that fitted the narrative, if it was suspected that climate change had caused the pipes to burst, they would be all over it from every angle, 24/7.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Eleftheros said:

If they were investigating with an actual desire to find out something, the airwaves would be full of speculation, comments from marginally qualified people, interviews with local villagers (or fishermen, perhaps), radar tracks.

 

If it was a story they liked, that fitted the narrative, if it was suspected that climate change had caused the pipes to burst, they would be all over it from every angle, 24/7.

I guess counterfactualism is contagious. At least for some. You've got nothing.

[Eleftheros]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I guess counterfactualism is contagious. At least for some. You've got nothing.

Yes,  I have.

 

I've got an open mind.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

If they were investigating with an actual desire to find out something, the airwaves would be full of speculation, comments from marginally qualified people, interviews with local villagers (or fishermen, perhaps), radar tracks.

 

If it was a story they liked, that fitted the narrative, if it was suspected that climate change had caused the pipes to burst, they would be all over it from every angle, 24/7.

You do realise this OP is 8 pages long, radar tracks, nearby Russian boats spotted, possible evidence observed has all been linked to already, have a read

[Bkk Brian]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:00 PM, Gweiloman said:

 

Helicopter - FFAB123 did not fly along the pipeline and did not even come close to the locations of the gas leaks. In particular, the northern gas leaks are far from FFAB123's flight path.

 

 

However, satellite pictures does reveal.

Russian warships and submarines spotted near sabotaged pipe

Russian Navy support ships, a warship and submarines were spotted close to the Nord Stream pipelines before the suspected sabotage

 

[placeholder]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:00 PM, Gweiloman said:

 

Fact check: US helicopter flight no proof of sabotage of Nord Stream pipeline

Sabotage is believed to be the likely cause of the leaks in the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Pro-Russian voices claim a US helicopter may have carried out the attack. DW takes a look at those claims.

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-us-helicopter-flight-no-proof-of-sabotage-of-nord-stream-pipeline/a-63295189

[Gweiloman]

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

 

Fact check: US helicopter flight no proof of sabotage of Nord Stream pipeline

Sabotage is believed to be the likely cause of the leaks in the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines. Pro-Russian voices claim a US helicopter may have carried out the attack. DW takes a look at those claims.

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-us-helicopter-flight-no-proof-of-sabotage-of-nord-stream-pipeline/a-63295189

I didn’t say that the flights were proof. Merely to contend your comrade’s implication that Russian boats seen were suspicious.

[Gweiloman]

the Russians wanted to be involved in the investigation. Perfectly justified as they are the majority owners. Not unlike Boeing wanting to be involved in the event of one of their planes crashing.

 

But, as far as I could tell, the minister did not comment. I’m more confident than ever that the right conclusion will be drawn.

[Scott]

A post making unsubstantiated claims has been removed along with other posts.  When posting information, a link to an approved source is required.  

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I didn’t say that the flights were proof. Merely to contend your comrade’s implication that Russian boats seen were suspicious.

The difference being that the helicopter flight has been ruled out as actually having been in the area. Can the same be said for the Russian ships?

[heybruce]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:19 PM, Gweiloman said:

Ok, I retract my use of the word know and replace it with suspect. 
 

Everything I’ve said have been substantiated by lots of evidence repeated by lots of experts. You have your opinions, they may or may not be right...

Why don't you provide a link to the evidence that the US blew up the pipeline?  So far you've only provided links to people speculating.

[internationalism]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:37 PM, Eleftheros said:

It is not the aim of journalism just to wait patiently for a government report and parrot it unquestioningly.

 

The job of the media is - or used to be - to do the investigative work by maintaining a range of contacts who could eventually connect them with the people who don the dive suits, and garner information and informed comment through that and other methods.

 

But the media seems willfully uninterested. More, of course, is being made of the climate change effects that may be caused by the release of all this methane than on the sabotage itself.

it took sometimes, over 4 months, but looks like there is a leak within biden administration, probably from the intelligence circles, which implicated biden in ordering nord stream blow up.

It weren't "mistery leaks" at all. Traces C4 were found already in November.

 

"How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

 

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, internationalism said:

it took sometimes, over 4 months, but looks like there is a leak within biden administration, probably from the intelligence circles, which implicated biden in ordering nord stream blow up.

It weren't "mistery leaks" at all. Traces C4 were found already in November.

 

"How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

 

Exactly how many threads do you plan to be rebutted in?

[internationalism]

call for an international investigation and for compensation for affected parties.

So far only some countries conduct their own investigations. There is no international body coordinating those investigations.

Russia was not allowed to visit blast sites, unlike the others.

 

"The Kremlin said on Thursday the world should know the truth about who sabotaged the Nord Stream gas pipelines and that those responsible should be punished after an investigative journalist said U.S. divers blew them up at the behest of the White House. ...

"The world must find out the truth about who carried out this act of sabotage," Peskov told reporters. "This is a very dangerous precedent: if someone did it once, they can do it again anywhere in the world."

"The appearance of such materials once again shows the need for an open international investigation of this unprecedented attack on international critical infrastructure," he said, adding the perpetrators should be punished."

 

after reuters

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/world/2023/02/09/russia-calls-for-international-probe-into-nord-stream-blasts-after-blogger-report

 

[internationalism]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:59 AM, Bkk Brian said:

There's a newly opened gas pipeline (Baltic Pipeline) to ween Poland and Europe off Russian gas.

 

The plausible explanation I've seen is that Russia used this to threaten an attack on that pipeline.

Norway, which runs baltic pipeline, is implicated (together with the USA), in blowing nord stream.

How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline? They have enough problems with Ukraine to risk potentially military conflict with Norway, which is in NATO.

 

The USA made some warnings, now can be treated as confessions:

 

"@UnderSecStateP

Victoria Nuland: “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

 

"U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Wednesday the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine.

"I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price told NPR. "I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-state-dept-2022-01-27/

 

"US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland has expressed joy over the destruction of Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. She also argued that, even if the US had sanctioned the infrastructure weeks before the Ukraine conflict broke out, this would not have prevented hostilities.

During a Senate hearing on Thursday, Nuland was asked by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) whether his legislation aimed at sanctioning the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which was voted down in January 2022, could have stopped the conflict before it began.

“Like you, I am, and I think the administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea,” Nuland said."

https://thepressunited.com/updates/top-us-official-hails-nord-stream-2-blast/

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Norway, which runs baltic pipeline, is implicated (together with the USA), in blowing nord stream.

How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline? They have enough problems with Ukraine to risk potentially military conflict with Norway, which is in NATO.

 

The USA made some warnings, now can be treated as confessions:

 

"@UnderSecStateP

Victoria Nuland: “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

 

"U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Wednesday the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine.

"I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price told NPR. "I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-state-dept-2022-01-27/

 

"US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland has expressed joy over the destruction of Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. She also argued that, even if the US had sanctioned the infrastructure weeks before the Ukraine conflict broke out, this would not have prevented hostilities.

During a Senate hearing on Thursday, Nuland was asked by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) whether his legislation aimed at sanctioning the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which was voted down in January 2022, could have stopped the conflict before it began.

“Like you, I am, and I think the administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea,” Nuland said."

https://thepressunited.com/updates/top-us-official-hails-nord-stream-2-blast/

Norway, which runs baltic pipeline, is implicated (together with the USA), in blowing nord stream.

 

Yes you've posted multiple times today on all the threads on this claim by an anonymous source.

[billd766]

Many countries make C4 plastic explosive.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_explosive

 

List of plastic explosives
Australia: PE4,[9][10] PE4-MC[11]
Austria: KNAUERIT SPEZIAL
Czech Republic: Semtex-1H (orange-colored), Semtex 1A (red-colored), Semtex 10 (also called Pl Np 10; black-colored), Pl Hx 30 (gray-colored)
Finland: PENO
France: Hexomax,[12][13] Composition C-4[14] PLASTRITE (FORMEX P1, Pla Np 87)
Germany: Sprengkörper DM12, P8301, Seismoplast 1 (Sprengmasse, formbar)
Netherlands: Knaverit S1 (light orange-colored)
Greece: C3, C4
India: PEK-1[15]
Israel: Semtex
Italy: T-4 Plastico
Norway: NM91 (HMX), C4, DPX10 (PE8)
Pakistan: PE-3A[16]
Poland: PMW, NITROLIT
Russia: PVV-5A Plastic Explosive
Slovakia: CHEMEX (Composition C-4 equivalent), TVAREX 4A, Pl Hx 30
South Africa: PE9 (Composition C-4 equivalent)[17]
Sweden: Sprängdeg m/46, NSP711 (PETN-based), NSH711 (cyclonite-based)
Switzerland: PLASTEX produced by SSE[18]
Turkey: Composition C-4[19][20]
United Kingdom
MOD explosives: PE2 (sheet explosive, superseded by SX2),[21] PE3A (superseded by PE4),[22] PE4 (pure to off-white slab, block, or stick, superseded by PE7 and PE8 in MOD usage),[23][22][24][25][26][27][28][12] SX2 (sheet explosive, superseded by SX4),[23][24][29][30] PE7 (pure to off-white slab or block, Hexomax variant),[12][13] PE8 (pure to off-white slab or block, current in-service slab charge),[31][32][33] SX4 (sheet explosive),[34] DPX (DPX1 used in L26A1 Bangalore Torpedo Demolition Charge, DPX9 used in SABREX)[35][36][37]
Non-MOD explosives: Composition C-4 (M5A1 and M112 charges produced by Mondial Defence Systems),[38] Semtex (Several variants including Razor produced by Mondial Defence Systems, PW4 variant produced by Chemring)[39])[40][41][42]
USA: Composition C-4 (pure white block or sheet, current in-service charges designated as M112 and M118)[43][44]
Yugoslavia/Serbia: PP–01 (Composition C-4 equivalent)

[internationalism]

yes, and that one used on nord stream can't be traced, unfortunately, to any country.

I have just mentioned about c4, because I wanted to point they weren't  just "mystery leaks" but delibarate action, international terrorism.

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, internationalism said:

yes, and that one used on nord stream can't be traced, unfortunately, to any country.

I have just mentioned about c4, because I wanted to point they weren't  just "mystery leaks" but delibarate action, international terrorism.

I have just mentioned about c4, because I wanted to point they weren't  just "mystery leaks" but delibarate action, international terrorism.

 

Deliberate sabotage was already announced by the EU end of Sept................

 

There's an OP on it if you look.

[internationalism]

Within 1h after blast, american surveillance aircraft Poseidon came to an area on a sheduled flight. Recorded on flightradar. 

 

"Igor Korotchenko, the head of the Centre for Analysis of World Arms Trade, has told Sputnik that the flight path of the aircraft on Flightradar24 supports the investigation of Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist SeymourHersh on the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipelines. 

"Taking into account that the route of American P-8A Poseidon was calculated with refueling over Poland and it was necessary to synchronize all these moments, we can say that its arrival at the given time � immediately after the attack� indicates the scheduled flight and, therefore, is another confirmation of the version put forward by American journalist Hersh of the reasons and circumstances of the attack. This once again proves the involvement of official US governmentagencies in this sabotage," Korotchenko said.

 

https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/us-surveillance-aircraft-monitored-results-of-1640324.html