COVID-19 preventive measures in schools to be lifted from October 1st

[BangkokReady]

8 minutes ago, VBF said:

And you'd care about that because....?

The commenter was suggesting that his not wearing a mask went unnoticed (implying nobody cared). I was suggesting that it perhaps did not go unnoticed, but he failed to notice other people noticing (people cared).

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This is great news. Now that daily cases are down to a trickle, there is barely any reason for masking anymore.

 

However, I still see kids bicycling around with masks on and riding motorbikes with masks on. Will the extreme paranoia end? How long will it take people here to develop a comfort level, that allows them to leave a mask behind?

A little knowledge would be in order for the general population as well as the authorities regarding the current state. Could easily been suggested worldwide some 2-2.5 years ago. Sadly, it never evolved in this manner. 

Better late than never. 

[HappyExpat57]

Two of my classes have been reduced to less than half the normal attendance due to Covid. The school is quite thorough about bi-monthly checks, and a positive test results in having the students stay home for a week. No serious illnesses have occurred, everyone comes back after quarantine. I have no control whether or not the masks are to be worn in the classroom, and easily 30% of students in every class don't wear masks.

 

95% of the general population (Chanthaburi) still wear masks and the last time I went in to get a haircut, the people nearly sh!t themselves scrambling to find the hand sanitizer for this dirty farang.

 

The government can relax the rules all they want, the superstition still lingers heavily in the air here.

[Eleftheros]

53 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

We can obviously discuss whether the reduction in cases was/is worth the impact on people's lives, but I don't think you can refute the facts of their effectiveness.

There are several large-scale scientific studies that do suggest that masks were, if not useless, then marginally effective, notably those from Denmark and Bangladesh. They certainly did not find evidence to suggest that mask-wearing was an effective barrier to infection.

 

The downside of wearing masks is fairly limited in adults, but in developing children, who use facial cues as a primary way of making sense of the world and developing, the effect is little short of catastrophic, and even UNICEF, as far back as September 2021, was begging schools to reopen after losing a total of 1,826,402,916,679 school hours, (though that plea was aimed more at general lockdown principles than masks in particular.)

 

Were masks beneficial in adults? Inconclusive.

Were they beneficial in children? Quite the opposite.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Eleftheros
Spelling and clarification

[BangkokReady]

40 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

There are several large-scale scientific studies that do suggest that masks were, if not useless, then marginally effective, notably those from Denmark and Bangladesh. They certainly did not find evidence to suggest that mask-wearing was an effective barrier to infection.

Both these studies focus on the effectiveness of mask wearing recommendations, rather than the effectiveness of the masks themselves.  They also both claim that masks can reduce the spread of covid-19.

 

The Bangladesh study in particular not only sets out with the view that masks are a good thing and it is desirable that they are worn, posing the question "How can we get people to wear masks more?", but it also concludes with:

 

Quote

A randomized-trial of community-level mask promotion in rural Bangladesh during the COVID-19 pandemic shows that the intervention increased mask usage and reduced symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections, demonstrating that promoting community mask-wearing can improve public health.

I think you might want to re-read the articles you have linked with a slightly more open mind.

 

It would probably help if you did research with the perspective of "How effective are masks at reducing the spread of covid-19?", rather than "Can I find any research that supports my opinion that masks are not effective?".

 

44 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Were masks beneficial in adults?

According to the articles you linked, yes.

 

44 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Were they beneficial in children?

Certainly in terms of reduction of spread, but, as I said, we need to think about whether that reduction is worth it.

 

Now that we have Omicron and vaccines, I think it's probably worth giving "going maskless in schools" a try.  If numbers don't go up too much as a result, then it can stay that way.

[Eleftheros]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

It would probably help if you did research with the perspective of "How effective are masks at reducing the spread of covid-19?", rather than "Can I find any research that supports my opinion that masks are not effective?".

Well, I am glad that you think you can read my mind so clearly.

 

My position on masks for adults is, as I said, neutral - they don't appear to do much good, or much harm.

 

Masks for children are a different story entirely.  First, children do not generally get sick from Covid.

 

More importantly, children desperately need a normal and safe environment in which to grow and develop, and it is bound to be detrimental to them to deprive them of important social and educational development cues, the lack of which they can probably never fully recover from.

 

I'm all for "saving Granny" from this virus, but not at the expense of our children's futures.

[BangkokReady]

17 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Well, I am glad that you think you can read my mind so clearly.

Well, you are free to present some evidence that says clearly that masks are not effective at reducing spread of covid-19.

 

17 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

My position on masks for adults is, as I said, neutral - they don't appear to do much good, or much harm.

And you're entitled to your opinion.  The research doesn't seem to support you, but your opinion is your opinion.

 

17 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Masks for children are a different story entirely.  First, children do not generally get sick from Covid.

It was never about children getting sick, but protecting vulnerable members of the family.

 

17 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

More importantly, children desperately need a normal and safe environment in which to grow and develop, and it is bound to be detrimental to them to deprive them of important social and educational development cues, the lack of which they can probably never fully recover from.

Absolutely, and hopefully things will return to normal as soon as possible.

 

17 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I'm all for "saving Granny" from this virus, but not at the expense of our children's futures.

You can attempt to trivialise, but we know this was a case of someone you love and care about dying, probably long before their time.  You're entitled to your opinion, but most people were OK with kids having a year of studying online if it meant their mother, father, husband, wife, etc., didn't die.

[CosmicSurfer]

Say "GOOD-BYE" to Soap in the Bathrooms!!!

[mnomad]

3 minutes ago, CosmicSurfer said:

Say "GOOD-BYE" to Soap in the Bathrooms!!!

Through your double mask?  Will it be heard?

[CosmicSurfer]

7 minutes ago, mnomad said:

Through your double mask?  Will it be heard?

You were obviously never a Teacher in a Thai Public School!! 

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

From Saturday, face-mask wearing all the time in schools, seat distancing of 1-2 metres, limits on the number o participants in group activities, the provision of additional hand cleaning facilities and daily disinfecting of classrooms, toilets and frequently touched will cease.

But Anutin in his sheer arrogance will continue to make snide remarks towards foreigners.

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Absolutely wonderful news for the children and teachers!!!

Unless they get Covid which is still with us... a family I know both parents and three school aged children all were tested positive Monday.

I'm not saying I don't agree with revising precautions but don't for one minute believe it's all over.

 

[Fairynuff]

15 hours ago, mnomad said:

I'm not going to argue or debate with someone who voluntarily restricts their own breathing... 

 

Strangulation restricts breathing not a mask…. That’s just in your head

[Fairynuff]

12 hours ago, LarryB said:

I've been to immigration offices and various banks in Chiang Mai without a mask and nobody even raised an eyebrow. 

 

They’re probably just fed up of foreigners thinking the rules don’t apply to them.

[Eleftheros]

8 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

It was never about children getting sick, but protecting vulnerable members of the family.

Then it's even worse than I thought.

 

If it was a misguided attempt to save the children themselves, I could tolerate that. But punishing children to try to save adults? That is truly awful and soulless.

 

There is a reason they shouted "Women and children first!" before lowering the lifeboats on the Titanic - these people are quite simply the future of the race.

 

Shouting "Geriatrics first - children to the back of the queue!" is neither a sensible nor, I would argue, a moral policy.

[hotchilli]

16 hours ago, mnomad said:

Children should never have been burdened with this ridiculous requirement for the last 2.5+years just to give a few very sensitive adults a further minor feeling of safety...

Endless bleating about having to wear a mask... 

there's another hundred reasons to keep wearing one... saving young lungs from the endless pollution breathed in every day is one of them.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, Eleftheros said:

If it was a misguided attempt to save the children themselves, I could tolerate that. But punishing children to try to save adults? That is truly awful and soulless.

So just let the virus rage and kill a load of people because you can't cope with a year of study online?

 

That's pretty wild.

 

"It doesn't matter if people are dying, the kids need to go to school! They're the future, so let the adults die!"

 

As I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but this one I can't see many people agreeing with.

 

It's very noble of you if you are personally willing to die, or have members of your family die, needlessly to allow kids to not miss a year of school, I'm not sure how many others would lay down their lives or those of their family for the same reason.

[Spilornis]

When removing indoor masks in Singapore and Malaysia both governments emphasised how important it was to get masks off children in schools.

Message ignored with almost 100% of school children still in masks a month later

[Eleftheros]

12 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

So just let the virus rage and kill a load of people because you can't cope with a year of study online?

Let me first echo your generous sentiment by saying that you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are engaging in some first-class catastrophising here.

 

I don't think there is any data to show that children being allowed to go about their normal routine would have caused the virus to "rage and kill a whole load of people" or that that in any way equates to a policy of "let the adults die".

 

Certainly that was not the experience in Sweden, where a short closure period for higher education was brought to an end in June 2020 because "it would not be an efficient and effective measure to stop the spread of the virus".

 

As for online learning, that may work to an extent for some families in richer countries, but it does not adequately replace the full experience of attending school.

[BKKBike09]

10 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but most people were OK with kids having a year of studying online if it meant their mother, father, husband, wife, etc., didn't die.

That's a rather binary choice: if your child doesn't study online, someone you love will die?

 

I suspect the people who were okay with kids having a year of studying online were nice middle-class folk with the infrastructure to let their children study at home (dedicated space, a laptop/Ipad, high speed internet), likely with their children attending a private school. I can assure you that the home learning experience for many poorer pupils at state schools was not a good one [my sister being a teacher at an inner city primary].

 

If not studying online for a year = someone in your house will die, then of course that's a pretty clear cut choice.

 

However the reality was study online for a year = potentially long-term and significant impacts to your child's educational progress, and a mildly enhanced risk that someone in your house might get sick.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

18 hours ago, mnomad said:

Got an appointment in October at CW, I still suspect I'll have to wear a mask that day, seen the young ones snap at the farangs even though some of aunties working there no longer wear them, it will the first time (from today at least) and last time I suspect I'll wear a mask (yes that includes flights, BTS, cinema etc..) anywhere in Thailand.  Banks will probably fall inline next week I suspect.
 

You are being sarcastic right?  It will take a long time to trickle down and still many will wear masks.....not your choice to tell others what to do.  You can go sans mask and if asked to wear one and you do not then you will be asked to move along.

[coolcarer]

42 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Let me first echo your generous sentiment by saying that you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are engaging in some first-class catastrophising here.

 

I don't think there is any data to show that children being allowed to go about their normal routine would have caused the virus to "rage and kill a whole load of people" or that that in any way equates to a policy of "let the adults die".

 

Certainly that was not the experience in Sweden, where a short closure period for higher education was brought to an end in June 2020 because "it would not be an efficient and effective measure to stop the spread of the virus".

 

As for online learning, that may work to an extent for some families in richer countries, but it does not adequately replace the full experience of attending school.

Covid affects families, over 10 million children worldwide lost parents or primary care giver due to covid. The impact will last for the rest of their lives. It’s impossible to say how many of those parents caught it from their children who went to school but it will certainly be a large enough proportion to have made the health decisions justified for mask mandates in schools. That said I am very pleased they have now dropped this in schools here due to the lessening impacts of the pandemic.

[isanviking]

I am "na-rak" with my mask ???? thank you very much

*irony end*

[James105]

Poor kids, and not just here, but in virtually every country they have paid by far the biggest price for the overreaction of the adults to covid.  Not only did they lose face to face education at the most important part of their lives, but they will be spending the rest of their lives (and probably their kids lives) paying the cost of the 2.5 years of utter madness of weak leadership and profiteering pharma companies.  

 

They will become very resentful adults when they come to realise the true cost of what the adults of today have done to their lives, even though covid was basically harmless to them.    If there was another Titanic disaster I have no doubt that 70%-80% of adults of today would sacrifice the children so they could get themselves a seat on the lifeboat.   

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Poor kids, and not just here, but in virtually every country they have paid by far the biggest price for the overreaction of the adults to covid.  Not only did they lose face to face education at the most important part of their lives, but they will be spending the rest of their lives (and probably their kids lives) paying the cost of the 2.5 years of utter madness of weak leadership and profiteering pharma companies.  

 

They will become very resentful adults when they come to realise the true cost of what the adults of today have done to their lives, even though covid was basically harmless to them.    If there was another Titanic disaster I have no doubt that 70%-80% of adults of today would sacrifice the children so they could get themselves a seat on the lifeboat.   

I bet those 10 million kids who lost parents are even sadder

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, James105 said:

Poor kids, and not just here, but in virtually every country they have paid by far the biggest price for the overreaction of the adults to covid.  Not only did they lose face to face education at the most important part of their lives, but they will be spending the rest of their lives (and probably their kids lives) paying the cost of the 2.5 years of utter madness of weak leadership and profiteering pharma companies.  

 

They will become very resentful adults when they come to realise the true cost of what the adults of today have done to their lives, even though covid was basically harmless to them.    If there was another Titanic disaster I have no doubt that 70%-80% of adults of today would sacrifice the children so they could get themselves a seat on the lifeboat.   

Maybe instead of your take on how the Children will grow into resentful adults they will become truly engaged in society knowing that they spared the lives of family and friends by not becoming infected and wearing a mask while also being vaccinated.  I know my 2 nieces feel this way.

[James105]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I bet those 10 million kids who lost parents are even sadder

What does that even mean?   Due to the decreased life expectancy caused by poverty these same kids will end up sacrificing more years of their own lives to give (maybe) a little bit extra life for people who already had lived their lives.    Covid only rarely took the lives of healthy, young individuals.   

 

This is why the answer to the "trolley problem" shouldn't be to pull the lever as the unknown or unintended consequences of intervening could cause far more devastation than pulling the lever.   

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, James105 said:

What does that even mean?   Due to the decreased life expectancy caused by poverty these same kids will end up sacrificing more years of their own lives to give (maybe) a little bit extra life for people who already had lived their lives.    Covid only rarely took the lives of healthy, young individuals.   

 

This is why the answer to the "trolley problem" shouldn't be to pull the lever as the unknown or unintended consequences of intervening could cause far more devastation than pulling the lever.   

Again your view and not the view of others. Agree to disagree as it seems your getting wrapped around the axels like you do when we discuss a topic. You never can find middle ground.

[James105]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

Again your view and not the view of others. Agree to disagree as it seems your getting wrapped around the axels like you do when we discuss a topic. You never can find middle ground.

I would change my mind if the stats supported it, but they don't, so I cannot.   

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Maybe instead of your take on how the Children will grow into resentful adults they will become truly engaged in society knowing that they spared the lives of family and friends by not becoming infected and wearing a mask while also being vaccinated.  I know my 2 nieces feel this way.

Exactly, from personal experience with my school age child and knowing many more of them as a result of her friends and parents they all appreciate the reasons for the restrictions that were in place.