Liverpool Lou Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, monkfish said: Paypal has made the choice to only accept Thai ID's for proof of identification. No, it's a government regulation, not something dreamed up by PP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: No, it's a government regulation, not something dreamed up by PP. What's a government regulation? Do foreigners need a Thai ID to open a Thai Bank Account? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelaoffy Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, monkfish said: Paypal has made the choice to only accept Thai ID's for proof of identification. Could have accepted passport of non thais. Fact is if a paypal account is linked to Thai bank account that bank will have all details and able to see all transactions. So all this is bureacratic BS and the intent is to stop foreigners using paypal in Thailand.. nothing less 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etaoin Shrdlu Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Here's a bit more info on the NDID scheme: https://www.biometricupdate.com/202203/thailands-ndid-partners-with-mastercard-to-connect-digital-ids-internationally and this: https://govinsider.asia/transformation/thailands-vision-for-a-self-sovereign-digital-id/ Edited October 12, 2022 by Etaoin Shrdlu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cmsally Posted October 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, monkfish said: Which regulation exactly? PayPal will operating under laws for banks and banks accept Foreign Passport ID's but PayPal will only accept Thai ID's. As much as I hate Paypal this is a Thai thing rather than a Paypal thing. It all started in the past year or two when Paypal in Thailand had to move onshore because of the KYC regulations (previously PayPal Thailand was part of the Singapore operation). At that time there was a deadline for using PayPal and any business accounts had to get the right paperwork and submit it to Paypal to prove they were an actual business. At that time personal accounts were going to be made redundant but then the deadline was basically postponed (presumably to get their digital ID up and working). Now that they have it working they have seen it as a way to suck people into the digital ID system. Business accounts will already be in the tax system and they seem to have found a way to suck the ordinary person into the tax system with the added benefit of possibly selling their data. Foreigners are basically just collateral damage. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, monkfish said: 4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: No, it's a government regulation, not something dreamed up by PP. What's a government regulation? Do foreigners need a Thai ID to open a Thai Bank Account? A government regulation is a regulation introduced by the government and is what is causing the changes to PayPal Thailand accounts. Foreigners do not need Thai ID to open a bank account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said: A government regulation is a regulation introduced by the government and is what is causing the changes to PayPal Thailand accounts. Foreigners do not need Thai ID to open a bank account. But you don't know which regulation so I guess that's why you don't really answer the question lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, monkfish said: 14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: A government regulation is a regulation introduced by the government and is what is causing the changes to PayPal Thailand accounts. Foreigners do not need Thai ID to open a bank account. Expand But you don't know which regulation so I guess that's why you don't really answer the question lol. I do know which regulation, it's the regulation that requires PayPal Thailand account holders to register via the NDID system. If you need forensic details of it, research it yourself. If you think that I'm wrong, just say so. Edited October 12, 2022 by Liverpool Lou 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: I do know which regulation, it's the regulation that requires PayPal Thailand account holders to register via the NDID system. If you need forensic details of it, research it yourself. If you think that I'm wrong, just say so. But Paypal are not required by regulation to use the NDID system for ID all they are required to do is verify identity same as a Bank but PayPal has made the choice to use NDID for Identity verification! Note they say we are using NOT we have to use. From Paypal website. 7) Why does PayPal need me to enroll in NDID? Financial services providers like PayPal are obliged under Thai law to verify the identity of their customers, which helps us keep PayPal safe for everyone using it. We are using the National Digital ID (NDID) platform to help us verify the identity of customers seeking to use PayPal Thailand personal accounts (including existing account holders whose accounts will be transferred to PayPal Thailand). As Thailand’s digital identity verification service, NDID will allow us to do so in a standardized, reliable, fast and safe manner. This requirement applies regardless of whether you have linked a Thai bank account to your PayPal account or not.https://www.paypal.com/th/webapps/mpp/thailand-relaunch-faq?locale.x=en_TH&utm_source=epsilon&utm_campaign=A_OW_EM_AH_HR_NI_NI_202208_182268_Email_for_Opted_in_PPTHConLaunch_Individual_Merchant_TH_en_TH&utm_medium=email Edited October 12, 2022 by monkfish 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Paypal Thailand was forced by the Thai govt. to come onshore. As soon as they came onshore they had to abide by the rules set by the Thai govt. In this case I think it might be the Electronic Transactions Act or something similar (something to do with e-commerce regulations). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, cmsally said: Paypal Thailand was forced by the Thai govt. to come onshore. As soon as they came onshore they had to abide by the rules set by the Thai govt. In this case I think it might be the Electronic Transactions Act or something similar (something to do with e-commerce regulations). I believe they are under the same laws as every Bank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, monkfish said: I believe they are under the same laws as every Bank. PayPal isn't a bank , it's a company providing financial services (e-commerce company), the laws are different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, cmsally said: PayPal isn't a bank , it's a company providing financial services (e-commerce company), the laws are different. A Bank is a company providing financial services. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myran Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, monkfish said: Paypal has made the choice to only accept Thai ID's for proof of identification. And they are doing this to mess with people or due to the laws and regulations of Thailand? Why aren't they adopting the same policies everywhere if they are so hell-bent on alienating potential customers? Can you really expect PayPal to open offices all over Thailand for ID verification purposes (rather than relying on doing it electronically with a system that Thailand has only made available for Thai people)? How many hoops can they be expected to jump through to service a comparatively small number of expats in Thailand? In your view, is PayPal just arbitrarily messing with people or are there perhaps reasons beyond their control? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etaoin Shrdlu Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, monkfish said: A Bank is a company providing financial services. The usual definition of a bank is a financial institution that accepts deposits and makes loans. I'm not sure Paypal fits this definition. I think it is a money transfer service since I don't think it makes loans. I'm not sure if it accepts deposits in the legal meaning of the term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etaoin Shrdlu Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Myran said: Can you really expect PayPal to open offices all over Thailand for ID verification purposes (rather than relying on doing it electronically with a system that Thailand has only made available for Thai people)? How many hoops can they be expected to jump through to service a comparatively small number of expats in Thailand? I think this is a major part of the issue. I don't think Paypal has the infrastructure to do the kind of KYC and perhaps some record keeping that the Thai government is asking for. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Crossy Posted October 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2022 You could use the new system that's based in The Vatican - Papal Fetching my coat! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Caldera Posted October 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2022 This is quite ridiculous, they've postponed the migration time and again - and have still failed to come up with a solution for customers who aren't Thai citizens. No Thai financial service company has ever expected me (being a foreigner) to use NDID, understanding that only Thai citizens are able to do so. They've all provided alternative means of ID verification for foreigners. Which is why I see PayPal at fault here, not the Thai authorities. Just why PayPal can't or won't do the same is anyone's guess. Fortunately it isn't crucial for me to keep using my account with them, so once I can't I'll simply use other services. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aforek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, CharlieH said: I...Leave them alone ! is my advice & opinion. ok, leave them, but where to go ? I don't have money with them, I just buy goods throw them, avoiding to give my Visa card number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 56 minutes ago, Myran said: And they are doing this to mess with people or due to the laws and regulations of Thailand? Why aren't they adopting the same policies everywhere if they are so hell-bent on alienating potential customers? Can you really expect PayPal to open offices all over Thailand for ID verification purposes (rather than relying on doing it electronically with a system that Thailand has only made available for Thai people)? How many hoops can they be expected to jump through to service a comparatively small number of expats in Thailand? In your view, is PayPal just arbitrarily messing with people or are there perhaps reasons beyond their control? They should find a better solution like a copy of the Passport and utility bill or what ever if they want I will get certified by my Embassy if they like. But I don't think the solution is to close down my account after 10+ years without a single problem. Best solution would be just leave my account in Singapore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdsa Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 does Paypal require to prove your residence address by showing them an electricity bill or bank account statement? I don't remember because I've registered many years ago. Maybe a solution could be registering a new account in Paypal Singapore using a random address from Google Maps and then attaching your Thai credit card. I've used my home country credit card for several years in Paypal Thailand without any questions, until it expired, so they definitely do not check the card issuing country when you attach a card to Paypal account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavideol Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 I registered using my Pink ID Card number and went thru without any trouble, easy peasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myran Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, monkfish said: They should find a better solution like a copy of the Passport and utility bill or what ever if they want I will get certified by my Embassy if they like. But I don't think the solution is to close down my account after 10+ years without a single problem. Best solution would be just leave my account in Singapore. Easier said than done, and we don't know what level of KYC the Thai authorites now demand. And if leaving the accounts in Singapore and still letting them be connected to Thai bank accounts was an option, you can bet your ass they would've done it. PayPal wants as many customers as possible; that's how they make money. They have zero reason to arbitrarily cut people off. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skraach Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Mavideol said: I registered using my Pink ID Card number and went thru without any trouble, easy peasy You can enter any 13-digit number as your Thai ID number, but the problem will come later when you have to verify that number at the bank before 30 November 2022. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Myran said: Easier said than done, and we don't know what level of KYC the Thai authorites now demand. And if leaving the accounts in Singapore and still letting them be connected to Thai bank accounts was an option, you can bet your ass they would've done it. PayPal wants as many customers as possible; that's how they make money. They have zero reason to arbitrarily cut people off. Why not? Accounts are not literally connected they just transfer funds to your account same as Wise or Payoneer. Edited October 12, 2022 by monkfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mavideol said: I registered using my Pink ID Card number and went thru without any trouble, easy peasy It will probably work with any 13 digit number until they check it. You can test if it works by trying register for NDID through your Bank for Kbank you can even do it through your Mobile App. But if does work that would be perfect! Edited October 12, 2022 by monkfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myran Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, monkfish said: Why not? Accounts are not literally connected they just transfer funds to your account same as Wise or Payoneer. Alright, I give up. PayPal is a big meanie and are barring you and other expats in Thailand from their service out of spite, laziness, incompetence, and malice. They could easily make their services available to us, but would rather lose that income for the reasons above. It's probably some sort of conspiracy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arkady Posted October 12, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2022 I am wondering what level of domestic business PP can do in Thailand. The number of times I have seen a Thai online merchant accepting PP can be counted on the fingers of mutilated hand. Thai SME vendors also hardly ever accept credit or debit cards. Everyone transfers the money electronically and sends the slip by LINE. Not protection for scammed buyers but great for vendors with no fees or charge backs. For e-commerce I would guess that PP has only been used by Thais and foreigners who have credit cards and buy stuff from overseas vendors. A very small percentage of Thais do this and a large percentage of foreign residents for obvious reasons. While they were offshore, you couldn't link to a Thai bank account. So it was limited to credit cards. Coming onshore and being able to link to Thai bank accounts, I guess they hope they will be able to penetrate the domestic market. But it does seem a very long shot. Anyway the share price has been telling us that PP has been going down the tubes for a while. The only innovation I can see is their compliance with Thai regulations and coming onshore but this is negative as far as I can see. Their market niche for me was largely that they were offshore and not part of the Thai nanny state regulatory environment. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Myran said: Alright, I give up. PayPal is a big meanie and are barring you and other expats in Thailand from their service out of spite, laziness, incompetence, and malice. They could easily make their services available to us, but would rather lose that income for the reasons above. It's probably some sort of conspiracy as well. Logically they could as Thai credit card companies and other financial providers are able to do so but PP has chosen not to. Imagine the furore, if they tried to pull the same stunt in the US and closed the accounts of green card and work permit holders. They would be accused of racism and shamed into finding a work around without any doubt whatsoever. But discriminatory racist business practices are OK for PP in third world countries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbeth Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Why some are blaming Thai government? Last time it was Paypal's lawyer overly broad interpretation of the law that's lead to their mess in requiring business registration to receive payments that they had to backtrack out of And now? you'd give them the benefit of the doubt by blaming it on Thai Government requirements again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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