Who is in charge? Liz Truss or Jeremy Hunt?

[Scott]

Who is in charge? Over the last couple of days you'd be forgiven for wondering if anyone was running the country.

The dizzying ups and downs of the mighty financial markets suggest they didn't really have faith that anyone had a grip on things either.

What happens on traders' screens affects the costs we have to grapple with - whether mortgages or rents - and how much of our taxes the government can spend on vital public services rather than paying interest on debt.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63268860

[BritManToo]

I think Liz should come out and say at the moment the UK is a complete mess and she can think of nothing to save it, then follow up by resigning the entire Conservative government and letting Labour have a go.

 

It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!

(now back to "Australia dollar is collapsing")

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think Liz should come out and say at the moment the UK is a complete mess and she can think of nothing to save it, then follow up by resigning the entire Conservative government and letting Labour have a go.

 

It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!

(now back to "Australia dollar is collapsing")

It would be far better to let this Government deal with its own mess.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Truss has driven the economy into crisis. 
 

Hunt’s in charge.

 

PMQs this week is going to be wonderful.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It would be far better to let this Government deal with its own mess.

COVID is a mess in which all world governments (left or right, military or democratic) participated.

Close your economy for 2 years and now reap the rewards.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

COVID is a mess in which all world governments (left or right, military or democratic) participated.

Close your economy for 2 years and now reap the rewards.

Oh, so it wasn’t Truss and Kwarteng that just sent the UK economy into crisis?

 

Why then is one sacked and the other [figuratively speaking] standing in the corner with a pointy hat on her head?

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh, so it wasn’t Truss and Kwarteng that just sent the UK economy into crisis?

Why then is one sacked and the other standing in the border with a pointy hat on her head?

I don't think that matters, at the moment anyone seen as in charge will be blamed.

They were just the latest two silly enough to stick their heads on the chopping block.

There will be plenty more to follow.

[brewsterbudgen]

Time for Sir Keir...

[Bluespunk]

Civil war continues within the tory party.

 

No one is in charge anymore.

 

''Another MP said there was no point hanging around: "We need to purge the current incumbents," they said, suggesting it would be a mistake to wait.

 

"The idea we would lose any credibility we have left by removing her is for the birds because we have no credibility."

 

It is one of the easiest things in politics to say: "We can't go on like this." And yet, very often, it does.''

 

#lameducktruss

[Bluespunk]

As I say, the party is riven with division and truss' incompetence has only made things worse.

 

''A group of senior MPs will meet on Monday to discuss the prime minister’s future, with some wanting her to resign within days and others saying she is now “in office but not in control”.

 

Some are threatening to publicly call on Truss to stand down after the implosion of her tax-cutting programme.

In a rearguard action to prop up the prime minister, her cabinet allies tonight warned MPs they would precipitate an election and ensure the Tories were “finished as a party” if they toppled a second leader in just a few months.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/15/tories-talks-ousting-truss-rescue-party

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

As I say, the party is riven with division and truss' incompetence has only made things worse.

 

''A group of senior MPs will meet on Monday to discuss the prime minister’s future, with some wanting her to resign within days and others saying she is now “in office but not in control”.

 

Some are threatening to publicly call on Truss to stand down after the implosion of her tax-cutting programme.

In a rearguard action to prop up the prime minister, her cabinet allies tonight warned MPs they would precipitate an election and ensure the Tories were “finished as a party” if they toppled a second leader in just a few months.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/15/tories-talks-ousting-truss-rescue-party

The Tory Party has been riven with division for over a decade.

 

Cameron only offered the Brexit Vote in order to try to prevent the Tory Party splitting up, all it achieved was damage to the country while the extreme rightwing of the Conservatives went back to fighting the moderates.

 

The whole nation self harming because of this bunch of corrupt self serving money grubbers.

 

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

COVID is a mess in which all world governments (left or right, military or democratic) participated.

Close your economy for 2 years and now reap the rewards.

All economies were negatively affected by the fallout from Covid, so that doesn't explain the current situation.

 

A lack of confidence in the UK government's ability to deal with the problems is the main reason for the market reaction. Who can blame them? 3 PMs in just over 3 years and 4 Chancellors inside 12 months hardly suggests a successful and stable administration. Throw the negative effects of Brexit coming home to roost into the mix and I'd suggest that the market reaction is quite rational for once.

 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, RayC said:

All economies were negatively affected by the fallout from Covid, so that doesn't explain the current situation.

Yes it does, all the western countries are in the same sinking currency ship.

Australia/NZ is even worse than the Uk, the EU about the same.

Haven't looked at Canada.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think Liz should come out and say at the moment the UK is a complete mess and she can think of nothing to save it, then follow up by resigning the entire Conservative government and letting Labour have a go.

 

It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!

(now back to "Australia dollar is collapsing")

No matter how hard you try, you're not going to succeed in making this mess about Labour. Give it up already.

[connda]

Kier Starma.  He just hasn't been sworn in yet but give it a week or two or three.  ????

[Chomper Higgot]

I can’t help thinking, Johnson must be loving this. 

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

No matter how hard you try, you're not going to succeed in making this mess about Labour. Give it up already.

You are correct. Then again, only the recent mini budget can be blamed  on the government. Covid19 is the biggest blame followed by the war in Ukraine.

 

How Labour would have handled things we'll never know. What are their ideas for the future? We don't know either. As usual with any opposition parties they belittle all government moves without offering alternatives. If an idea is ever put forward there are no figures.

 

I do believe it us time for a general election. However, other than planning a windfall tax on oil companies, which would damage investment and a plethora of pension schemes, and caving in to the trade unions asking for 10%+ pay rises, thus fueling inflation, it will be the same. Every government can only give so much. Someone is always going to moan.

 

Until people realise the damage Covid19 did to the world economy and just sit tight and wait for things to climb back, instead if believing everything will magic itself back to normal, the better. That includes politicians. In fact, Jeremy Hunt's first couple of days in No.11 have seen him basically say that.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Yes it does, all the western countries are in the same sinking currency ship.

If by that you mean that all currencies are suffering when measured against the $US then yes, agreed.

 

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Australia/NZ is even worse than the Uk, the EU about the same.

Haven't looked at Canada.

The value of the £ vis-a-vis those currencies is about the same as it was a month ago. However, none of those nations' governments and/or central banks have had to reverse their stated fiscal and monetary policies to prop up the value of their currencies over the past month.

 

Over the longer term (post Brexit), the UK is lagging behind most of its' competitors (esp. the EU) whatever measure is used e.g. growth, value of currency, inflation, etc.

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

Over the longer term (post Brexit), the UK is lagging behind most of its' competitors (esp. the EU) whatever measure is used e.g. growth, value of currency, inflation, etc.

Really? How do you know?

 

You say "longer term" but then use "is".

 

Are you making a prediction or is your longer-term now? 

 

Do you really think Brexit has even had the time to be gauged with the other distractions that gave occurred since it happened?

 

In order to suggest Brexit is going to mean UK lagging behind the EU, we first have to get the economy, growth, inflation and currency levels back to pre Covid19 levels and get the war in Ukraine stopped. Then, with Brexit the only factor, we can see what happens.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Really? How do you know?

 

You say "longer term" but then use "is".

 

Are you making a prediction or is your longer-term now? 

 

Do you really think Brexit has even had the time to be gauged with the other distractions that gave occurred since it happened?

 

In order to suggest Brexit is going to mean UK lagging behind the EU, we first have to get the economy, growth, inflation and currency levels back to pre Covid19 levels and get the war in Ukraine stopped. Then, with Brexit the only factor, we can see what happens.

Because it was only the UK that experienced economic distress due to covid?

[JonnyF]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Civil war continues within the tory party.

 

No one is in charge anymore.

 

''Another MP said there was no point hanging around: "We need to purge the current incumbents," they said, suggesting it would be a mistake to wait.

 

"The idea we would lose any credibility we have left by removing her is for the birds because we have no credibility."

 

It is one of the easiest things in politics to say: "We can't go on like this." And yet, very often, it does.''

 

#lameducktruss

I'm going to assume these are more unnamed sources from extreme left publications ?????

[puchooay]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because it was only the UK that experienced economic distress due to covid?

Oh dear. At least the question mark has left you with some credibility.

[RayC]

2 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Really? How do you know?

 

You say "longer term" but then use "is".

 

Are you making a prediction or is your longer-term now? 

 

Do you really think Brexit has even had the time to be gauged with the other distractions that gave occurred since it happened?

 

In order to suggest Brexit is going to mean UK lagging behind the EU, we first have to get the economy, growth, inflation and currency levels back to pre Covid19 levels and get the war in Ukraine stopped. Then, with Brexit the only factor, we can see what happens.

Given that the rest of the world is  experiencing the effects of Covid - and  reacted in the same way i.e. by shutting down their economies - and the Ukraine war, why should that explain the relative underperformance of the UK?

 

(The UK came out of lockdown quicker than most, and is less exposed to the effects of the war than the EU).

[placeholder]

Just now, puchooay said:

Oh dear. At least the question mark has left you with some credibility.

Your comment leaves you with none. But let me put it to you as a statement. The UK was not the only nation to experience economic distress from covid. To assist you in the understanding the point of this statement, here's a question: why is its performance since Brexitworse than that of other economically developed Nations?

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Your comment leaves you with none. But let me put it to you as a statement. The UK was not the only nation to experience economic distress from covid. To assist you in the understanding the point of this statement, here's a question: why is its performance since Brexitworse than that of other economically developed Nations?

To know the full answer to that one would have to take into account the levels of financial help each nation's government gave to their public. You would also need to check the levels of help given to Ukraine in defence aids and that given to Ukrainian refugees. You would also need ti show the figures of other economically developed nations, whilst at the same time defining what nations are economically developed.

 

I look forward to seeing that.

[puchooay]

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

Given that the rest of the world is  experiencing the effects of Covid - and  reacted in the same way i.e. by shutting down their economies - and the Ukraine war, why should that explain the relative underperformance of the UK?

 

(The UK came out of lockdown quicker than most, and is less exposed to the effects of the war than the EU).

You may wish to see my reply to Placeholder. You could give him a hand collating the data.

 

I look forward to seeing that.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think Liz should come out and say at the moment the UK is a complete mess and she can think of nothing to save it, then follow up by resigning the entire Conservative government and letting Labour have a go.

 

It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!

(now back to "Australia dollar is collapsing")

"It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!"  It sure would. Labour has never been the party of the working class in my adult lifetime. Now they have a "Sir" as it's leader and probable next PM.

Even the Tories have never had a "Sir" as a PM in my adult lifetime, and people with a "Sir" in front of their name are all stinking rich.

Does anyone really believe that this present "Sir" and leader of the Labour Party will do anything for the working class? If so they can dream on.

[brewsterbudgen]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"It would be fun to see Labour also fail in such an epic way!"  It sure would. Labour has never been the party of the working class in my adult lifetime. Now they have a "Sir" as it's leader and probable next PM.

Even the Tories have never had a "Sir" as a PM in my adult lifetime, and people with a "Sir" in front of their name are all stinking rich.

Does anyone really believe that this present "Sir" and leader of the Labour Party will do anything for the working class? If so they can dream on.

They'll do more than the Tories, that's for sure. I do partly agree with you though.  The best PM we never had was Jeremy Corbyn. 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

It currently seems to be in a similar  situation from a few weeks ago when it was announced that Queen Elizabeth wasn't feeling too well and all her Family are on the way to Balmoral .

   Similar to the other Lizs current predicament . 

As in, we are just waiting for the official announcement of her demise 

[RayC]

43 minutes ago, puchooay said:

You may wish to see my reply to Placeholder. You could give him a hand collating the data.

 

I look forward to seeing that.

No need for Placeholder and myself to bother, someone got there before us.

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/research-papers/?_sft_theme=the-economics-of-brexit

 

Can't claim to have read most of the reports but those I have browsed paint a negative picture.

 

I look forward to you presenting your objections to the methodology and/or findings in due course. 

 

In the meantime, perhaps you could list the economic benefits we have gained from Brexit or are they all due 'mañana'?