MaxFar Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hi, I'm thinking of buying an apartment in Cassia Phuket as an investment. The Cassia hotel would rent it out, manage and so on - for a fee, obviously. They promise that it's a completely hands-free investment, also profitable. I'm not sure if I believe them ???? Any happy owners here? Please share your experience. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adumbration Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 What is the spruiked ROI and ownership structure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFar Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 Leasehold, no guarantees but I was told ~6%/year after expenses, taxes and whatnot (before Covid obviously). Not impressive, but not that bad. Would love to check. @Adumbration, any ideas whom to ask? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DrDave Posted October 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2022 These type of arrangements are generally a horrible investment. The investor (you) who puts up all of the money is the last to be paid, that is if there's any money left after the management company or developer take their cut. The only ones making any money on these arrangements are the developers and their management companies who sell over-priced condos and then skim most of the ongoing revenue off the back end. Many, many condos in Phuket were sold pre-covid using this 6% ROI scheme. You might ask those who bought them how their investment is paying off. I wouldn't be surprised if most would be too embarrassed to respond. 9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFar Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 Hi Dave, well, this is basically what I'm doing: asking those who bought them ???? Anyone not too embarrassed to respond? I'm willing to pay actually. If you are an owner of apartment in Cassia and have one of those quarterly "rental pool returns" documents for 2018, please PM me. I need this to check my agent's words (don't need any personal info, just numbers). I would transfer a few thousand baht as a gesture of gratitude if anyone can help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Myran Posted October 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2022 If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit? 5 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 9 hours ago, Myran said: If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit? Right!!! It's far more profitable to follow this script: "I'm going to use YOUR money to build this project, and make a tidy profit off of the sale. Then, I'll rent out the unit YOU paid for while paying myself and a staff an ongoing salary from the rental proceeds. I'll also pocket charges for any *cough, cough* 'expenses' as I see fit. Whatever crumbs that may be left, I'll give to YOU. To sweeten the deal, I'll let you use the unit YOU paid for 5% of the time." Near-zero capital investment and risk for the developer, with a very significant upside. You are basically financing the developer's business. Oh, and any "guaranteed ROI", is in reality not guaranteed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Myran said: If it's so profitable, why aren't they just renting out the units themselves? Why "cut you in" on the alleged profit? Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, Sparktrader said: Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand. Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, stevenl said: Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows. Too many hotels. They dont fill up. Cleaning costs too. I looked at something like this net was 3% and thats in a better city. 6% net pigs bum. If they would getting 6% net they wouldnt sell. 6% gross is normal. Net no way. What they do is base this bs on another hotel in the best part of the world in boom times. Read the fine print. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) On 10/23/2022 at 10:32 PM, Sparktrader said: Too many hotels. They dont fill up. Cleaning costs too. I looked at something like this net was 3% and thats in a better city. 6% net pigs bum. If they would getting 6% net they wouldnt sell. 6% gross is normal. Net no way. What they do is base this bs on another hotel in the best part of the world in boom times. Read the fine print. Read my reply to your post. You said low season is dead, I said Low season is dead wasn't true pre COVID. Next low season, who knows. your reply now is not related to my post. Edited October 24, 2022 by stevenl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Adumbration Posted October 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 10:31 PM, MaxFar said: Leasehold, no guarantees but I was told ~6%/year after expenses, taxes and whatnot (before Covid obviously). Not impressive, but not that bad. Would love to check. @Adumbration, any ideas whom to ask? Dreadful investment. A leasehold is an amortizing asset. After thirty years (assuming that is the lease duration) you will have nothing. Don't touch it with a barge pole is my advice. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ChasingTheSun Posted October 24, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2022 Better idea….Find an existing built foreign-freehold condo for a reasonable price along the coast between Kamala-Kata and just hire a rental agency to manage rentals for you. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieroaming Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 You have to ask the developer what formulae they use to calculate the ROI e.g. are they calculating ROI on income generated from room leasing or is it income generated + supposed yearly property appreciation? There is absolutely no way that a developer will risk taking a yearly loss of profit in order to guarantee an ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropposurfer Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well. Edited October 27, 2022 by Tropposurfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said: A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well. Although property prices in Australia have dropped by 10 % this year and by even more in NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisfeld Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 OP: I have a bridge to sell, uhm sorry lease. 6% ROI! Guaranteed, uhm sorry I mean not guaranteed but promised for sure! Put your money into SP500 for 30 years you'll be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Tropposurfer said: A total rip off. Why oh why invest in ANY real estate - anywhere! that offers a nett return of 6% ludicrous. Go and buy a house in Australia and make 20% perm annum mean average, and not get bled pale by all and sundry off that nett profit as well. 6% gross is normal on rentals. 6% net is not common. 20% pa rise is not normal. 8% is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerve Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, DrDave said: Right!!! It's far more profitable to follow this script: "I'm going to use YOUR money to build this project, and make a tidy profit off of the sale. Then, I'll rent out the unit YOU paid for while paying myself and a staff an ongoing salary from the rental proceeds. I'll also pocket charges for any *cough, cough* 'expenses' as I see fit. Whatever crumbs that may be left, I'll give to YOU. To sweeten the deal, I'll let you use the unit YOU paid for 5% of the time." Near-zero capital investment and risk for the developer, with a very significant upside. You are basically financing the developer's business. Oh, and any "guaranteed ROI", is in reality not guaranteed. And this assumes that the building even gets built. Some don't, and where does the money flow? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bupko Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasingTheSun Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bupko said: I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6% Can you get out of the rental contract with the condo management company and just use your own agent to lease it out? If not, try selling. Perhaps some russians or chinese will buy if the price is right. Edited August 7, 2023 by ChasingTheSun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eezergood Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 10/23/2022 at 9:48 PM, Sparktrader said: Exactly. 6% is bs. More like 1%. Low season is dead in Thailand. Current "low season" - I manage hotel are we are over 85% month on month! low season myth is exactly that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 1:03 PM, Bupko said: I own 2 app in Cassia - have huge problems with management. They simply don't pay revenue. And im not alone. Preparing for the court. Dont believe in 6% We have one condo in Phuket as part of a hotel. They basically conned us. We paid for it all including the furniture. They started payments fine, but after a few months they stopped. They said they could not afford to pay us becasue of covid, then floods, then low season, then staff off sick.. Etc etc.. After long battle with getting the ownership in our name (which never happened) despite the fact we have all the records of contracts and our payments to them...they finally agreed to buy it back from us to stop us taking them to court.. After a few very erratic payments and many missed ones each month payments last year all payments stopped. They do not reply to email, calls, anything. Yet their hotel is full and doing well...and they are using our room to rent to holidaymakers. We don't have enough money for the lawyer and are worried if we can actually trust a Thai lawyer. It's been so stressful over 3 years. Now we seriously considering waking away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasingTheSun Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, jak2002003 said: We have one condo in Phuket as part of a hotel. They basically conned us. We paid for it all including the furniture. They started payments fine, but after a few months they stopped. They said they could not afford to pay us becasue of covid, then floods, then low season, then staff off sick.. Etc etc.. After long battle with getting the ownership in our name (which never happened) despite the fact we have all the records of contracts and our payments to them...they finally agreed to buy it back from us to stop us taking them to court.. After a few very erratic payments and many missed ones each month payments last year all payments stopped. They do not reply to email, calls, anything. Yet their hotel is full and doing well...and they are using our room to rent to holidaymakers. We don't have enough money for the lawyer and are worried if we can actually trust a Thai lawyer. It's been so stressful over 3 years. Now we seriously considering waking away from it. Put it up for sale. Somebody will buy it for the right price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said: Put it up for sale. Somebody will buy it for the right price. Would do. But we have no blue book. They never registered it it in our names. We saw a black and white photo copy of it from when they went to And office to register...but that does not have our names in it...and it was never completed. Said it would e complete on last payment. Well, we did last payment and then nothing. All we have are the receipts of payments. 3 months now and no money fron them...desoite our contact. We are moving out of Thailand now...they spoilt it for us. Just trying to forget about it. Can't even put a friend in it...as the hotel has electronic swipe cards.. I would have loved to go down there and ruin the room and flood the place... And clear out all our furniture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BE88 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Investing in Thailand, are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasingTheSun Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 7 hours ago, jak2002003 said: Would do. But we have no blue book. They never registered it it in our names. We saw a black and white photo copy of it from when they went to And office to register...but that does not have our names in it...and it was never completed. Said it would e complete on last payment. Well, we did last payment and then nothing. All we have are the receipts of payments. 3 months now and no money fron them...desoite our contact. We are moving out of Thailand now...they spoilt it for us. Just trying to forget about it. Can't even put a friend in it...as the hotel has electronic swipe cards.. I would have loved to go down there and ruin the room and flood the place... And clear out all our furniture. Is your condo unit leasehold or foreign freehold or thai freehold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 9 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said: Is your condo unit leasehold or foreign freehold or thai freehold? It's a hotel. There are 6 separate blacks of rooms, a big restaurant and reception, and 2 swimming pools. Also a beach bar. The land was bought by a farang / Thai business that owns a couple more such hotels in Phuket. Best Western Hotel was supposed to run it, but they pulled out. So now it's a private hotel.. Be bought our condo as freehold. The file was only a certain number of the condos were allowed to be farang owned...the rest Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasingTheSun Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: It's a hotel. There are 6 separate blacks of rooms, a big restaurant and reception, and 2 swimming pools. Also a beach bar. The land was bought by a farang / Thai business that owns a couple more such hotels in Phuket. Best Western Hotel was supposed to run it, but they pulled out. So now it's a private hotel.. Be bought our condo as freehold. The file was only a certain number of the condos were allowed to be farang owned...the rest Thai. You should have received a chanote for your foreign freehold unit. it would have your name on it. Did you get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 2 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said: You should have received a chanote for your foreign freehold unit. it would have your name on it. Did you get that? There is a chonote but it had no ones name on it as no one has taken ownership of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now