Locked out and unpaid

[puchooay]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:52 PM, francie said:

had permission (verbal)

That's it right there. Game over.

 

Your contract quite probably states you must attend during holiday, at least dign in in thr morning.

 

If so, you broke the contract.

[puchooay]

12 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

So you brake the law by working without a work permit and you want justice, start by obeying the law yourself in the first place. That you only know 1 person says nothing.

He doesn't say that. Read again.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, puchooay said:

He doesn't say that. Read again.

Lamfalang post: "Both parties signed, they then changed things and I didn't agree.....another headache.  labor basically said, 'no work permit with them' (true, only signed contract and then headaches) so nothing."   

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Lamfalang post: "Both parties signed, they then changed things and I didn't agree.....another headache.  labor basically said, 'no work permit with them' (true, only signed contract and then headaches) so nothing."   

He didn't say he'd worked.

 

"True, only signed contract and then headaches"  

 

Problems before he started work.

[BonMot]

Note that this is a first post.

 

The OP took a contract in September is this an intentional school or a school that struggled to find teachers until Sept?

 

International schools don't break in the period mentioned. Hmmm.

 

Regardless, OP left and couldn't return and that's on the op. I vividly recall warning some morons at my school not to leave but they did and were locked out of the country.

 

The government publically announced it's intentions and you went anyway. Then, complain and think about filing suits. Plain as <deleted> day it was.

 

Move on.

 

If you were a great teacher you wouldn't be moaning but no shortage of schools ringing your phone for work.

 

It's always this way for the aggrieved, the suit filers... Sheet go get another job and why did you work for that cr*p school to begin with?

[marcusb]

It's actually very difficult for a school to cancel a contract without paying a severance. Labour board has a good scale on exactly what the funds should be. 

Unfortunately missing 3 or more consecutive days without proper notice is grounds for instant dismissal and no severance.  

 

Thai labour codes are easy to find and easy to read, not filled with legal jargon.

 

 

[francie]

Hello again,

Thanks again to everyone for their posts on my issue. I would like to

answer some more queries and clarify some issues though I suspect a few are trolls:

 

What was the situation when you left? Did you abandon the students?

I left early March 2020. There were no restrictions in place at that point and life was totally normal. The students had already started their school break and were returning mid-May. I had verbal permission to go on holiday as was the usual procedure followed by the other foreign teachers at the school. Although the legal requirement is to obtain written permission, this was not asked for and I consider this akin to a legal loophole exploited by the school.

 

Does your contract state you must attend during holidays and sign in?

No, It does not state this and I had permission to leave on holiday, returning mid May.

 

I do feel the school behaved in an unprofessional, unethical and really quite disgraceful fashion. Remember this was during a pandemic, a national and global emergency. A school should have felt a duty to support their teachers at that time, not exploit it as a way to get rid of teachers.

 

I would like to name and shame the school but of course forum rules prevent this. However, curious to know if I can report them to the Teachers Council. Do they have a role in ensuring professional standards of behaviour of schools? (This is a government school). Would welcome any advice.

 

I intend to follow up on some suggestions made but not hopeful of success. Thanks again to everyone for your replies.

 

Francie

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:59 PM, francie said:

Hello again,

Thanks again to everyone for their posts on my issue. I would like to

answer some more queries and clarify some issues though I suspect a few are trolls:

 

What was the situation when you left? Did you abandon the students?

I left early March 2020. There were no restrictions in place at that point and life was totally normal. The students had already started their school break and were returning mid-May. I had verbal permission to go on holiday as was the usual procedure followed by the other foreign teachers at the school. Although the legal requirement is to obtain written permission, this was not asked for and I consider this akin to a legal loophole exploited by the school.

 

Does your contract state you must attend during holidays and sign in?

No, It does not state this and I had permission to leave on holiday, returning mid May.

 

I do feel the school behaved in an unprofessional, unethical and really quite disgraceful fashion. Remember this was during a pandemic, a national and global emergency. A school should have felt a duty to support their teachers at that time, not exploit it as a way to get rid of teachers.

 

I would like to name and shame the school but of course forum rules prevent this. However, curious to know if I can report them to the Teachers Council. Do they have a role in ensuring professional standards of behaviour of schools? (This is a government school). Would welcome any advice.

 

I intend to follow up on some suggestions made but not hopeful of success. Thanks again to everyone for your replies.

 

Francie

 

 

You need to change your attitude and not only look what the school needs to do from your perspective but also what a school expect from their employees and the children from their teacher.

1. How much effort would it have taken you to get written permission for your holiday which is very common practice.
2. You can't blame the school for a pandemic, a national and global emergency. You didn't show up for work anymore.
3. Name and shame? Don't worry about the forum rules, you will end up in jail for defamation. It will also bring attention to your own unprofessional attitude.
4. The school did nothing wrong; you did and where unlucky with the pandemic, national and global emergency.
5. Stop moaning and put negative energy in this topic and find a new job and learn from your mistakes. 

 

 

[scorecard]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:11 PM, Iamfalang said:

went to the labor board once, they were useless (IMO).  sat, listened to me talk to my old school, did nothing, I had to do all the negotiations, had to take maybe 40% or less (long time ago) and then had to sign some forms.   felt very, very useless.      second time I had to email labor about a bad contract.  Both parties signed, they then changed things and I didn't agree.....another headache.  labor basically said, 'no work permit with them' (true, only signed contract and then headaches) so nothing.   then another school changed another contract, only verbal.  i didn't agree with the change, they didn't care.  i didn't do anything.   

 

The school will find a way to end your contract.  If it involves money, they will fight it.   Odds of getting that salary is probably 0%, even if you spend 10 to 20k on a good lawyer.  plus all the time.   and don't work in that same province.   

 

remember the story of the Brit who hired 18, EIGHTEEN, lawyers before one didn't steal his money.   crazy situation, and he broke out of jail (youtube will find his documentary).   yea, I've only heard of one falang who had luck with a labor department.  only one.  

The Labour Dept., have a good track record, they've helped many people including farang. 

 

But be realistic, if the complainant doesn't have a case then they can't help.

[matchar]

Is there any statute of limitations for labour disputes?

I have a much stronger case against a previous school regarding illegal salary deductions dating back to 2014-16 that I never bothered to pursue after finding a much better job.

[marin]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:59 PM, francie said:

I left early March 2020. There were no restrictions in place at that point and life was totally normal

 

On 11/4/2022 at 9:59 PM, francie said:

. Remember this was during a pandemic, a national and global emergency.

Which was it? You seem to contradict yourself. 

[puchooay]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:22 AM, FritsSikkink said:

You need to change your attitude and not only look what the school needs to do from your perspective but also what a school expect from their employees and the children from their teacher.

1. How much effort would it have taken you to get written permission for your holiday which is very common practice.
2. You can't blame the school for a pandemic, a national and global emergency. You didn't show up for work anymore.
3. Name and shame? Don't worry about the forum rules, you will end up in jail for defamation. It will also bring attention to your own unprofessional attitude.
4. The school did nothing wrong; you did and where unlucky with the pandemic, national and global emergency.
5. Stop moaning and put negative energy in this topic and find a new job and learn from your mistakes. 

 

 

Get off your high horse.

 

There is nothing wrong with thinking a verbal agreement on a holiday would be fine. It was a mistake. Simple.

 

Had the pandemic not occurred and the OP had got back in time there most likely would not have been a problem.

 

The guy came on here for some advice. Not a lecture.

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, marin said:

 

Which was it? You seem to contradict yourself. 

Read his whole post.

 

No restrictions when he left for a holiday.

 

Restrictions put in place during his holiday.

 

No contradiction.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Get off your high horse.

 

There is nothing wrong with thinking a verbal agreement on a holiday would be fine. It was a mistake. Simple.

 

Had the pandemic not occurred and the OP had got back in time there most likely would not have been a problem.

 

The guy came on here for some advice. Not a lecture.

A lecture is advice. He came here to find a way to get money which he didn't deserve as he never worked for it.

[new2here]

On 10/27/2022 at 9:40 AM, scorecard said:

Have you actually been to the labour complaints office of the Labour ministry at Din Daeng?

 

It's on the ground floor. If you appraoch the building the signs about 'COMPLAINTS OFFICE' or perhaps it's called 'DISPUTES OFFICE' or similar are very big. You can't miss it.

 

The staff are actually good listeners, friendly and welcoming and many speak excelllent English.

 

They have helped many people. They don't discriminate against foreigners.

 

 

I have been a witness in a case before .. I can attest that SO LONG AS your case falls within the law, then they will act.. Thai or not.. they don’t care ..

 

To me the key is what are the facts…

 

I was rather impressed …. they listened, took copious notes, copies of relevant documents.. it wasn’t an overnight process, but if i recall within about a month, after calling in both parties and their respective witnesses, a department case manager had ruled and their written decision - which is effectively a government order -  was sent to both parties with an order that it had to be completed within 30 days i recall. 

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

A lecture is advice. He came here to find a way to get money which he didn't deserve as he never worked for it.

Incorrect. A lecture and giving advice is different.

 

Although I have already advised he probably won't get any compensation, the labour office might think differently.

[FritsSikkink]

32 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Incorrect. A lecture and giving advice is different.

 

Although I have already advised he probably won't get any compensation, the labour office might think differently.

No they won't, he has already been there. For the Labour office you need written permission for your holiday. Anyone can say they had verbal permission.

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

No they won't, he has already been there. For the Labour office you need written permission for your holiday. Anyone can say they had verbal permission.

Like I said, the labour office might think differently.

 

If some foreign teachers were treated differently, as he gas mentioned in a recent post, he may have a case.

 

[FritsSikkink]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Like I said, the labour office might think differently.

 

If some foreign teachers were treated differently, as he gas mentioned in a recent post, he may have a case.

 

Can't you read, the OP has been to the Labour Office and they refused his claim. Read the Labour Law.

[puchooay]

30 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Can't you read, the OP has been to the Labour Office and they refused his claim. Read the Labour Law.

I can read, yes. He said he was sure he was at the right office but did not confirm.

 

He did not just go on holiday, as the most recent post confirms. It was regular school break. If his contract does not state he must go in, he might have a case. Simple.

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, puchooay said:

I can read, yes. He said he was sure he was at the right office but did not confirm.

What are you trying to say here?

[puchooay]

7 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

What are you trying to say here?

It's quite straight forward. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

It's quite straight forward. 

He said he was at the Labour Office and they didn't help him. What is there to confirm, does he need to say it 3 times before you believe it?

[puchooay]

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He said he was at the Labour Office and they didn't help him. What is there to confirm, does he need to say it 3 times before you believe it?

Go back and read his posts. It's all self explanatory.

 

 

[francie]

On 11/17/2022 at 1:53 AM, marin said:

 

Which was it? You seem to contradict yourself. 

I guess I need to clarify the timeline.  I went on holiday with permission early March 2020 after the school break had begun when everything was normal. I was fired in May 2020 (by email) following an exchange of emails with the school. This was of course after restrictions were introduced ( mid-March 2020: flight ban, closure of schools etc) so there is no contradiction.

[francie]

20 hours ago, puchooay said:

I can read, yes. He said he was sure he was at the right office but did not confirm.

 

He did not just go on holiday, as the most recent post confirms. It was regular school break. If his contract does not state he must go in, he might have a case. Simple.

The Labor Office did not reject my claim or refuse to help, they just did not get back to me. I can confirm my contract does not state I must attend school during school breaks or holidays.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, francie said:

The Labor Office did not reject my claim or refuse to help, they just did not get back to me. I can confirm my contract does not state I must attend school during school breaks or holidays.

They didn't come back to you because you have no case. Learn and move on.

[markclover]

The salary is so low I wouldn't bother.  Unless you run out of toilet paper.