Word Association (2024)

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

MG updated their website 1st October

https://www.mgcars.com/th/promotions/12

It's called marketing ... good luck finding one.

 

LAZ advertises 'free shipping' also, out of 100-150 orders, might have got free shipping once  ...

... marketing 

 

MG ZS EV gets 403 kms per charge ... marketing again.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by KhunLA

[Andrew Dwyer]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

There are a couple of negatives...   but they are not show stoppers.

 

 

1) There is the need for numerous different EV charging Apps ( I think about 8 in total )

... some of which requires money pre-loaded into in-app wallets.

 

2) When 'charging' at a shopping mall.

- its great if you can get a slower Type 2 AC charger that will gently top up the charge over a few hours (2-3-4 hrs etc)

- But, if you get a CCS2 DC charger that will top up the car in 20-30mins, then you have to go back and exit the charging bay and park elsewhere (which of course adds a further element of inconvenience).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I don’t see the fact that there are plenty of apps for charging EV’s as a negative, on the contrary. While I have downloaded a few app I only use 2 in nearly a year, 1 has no money loaded and the other does have money loaded into a wallet but it doesn’t have a minimum and I can transfer the minimum amount to it shortly before charging if necessary.

Where is the negative ?

 

2) Now it appears that charging too fast is a negative ?, just choose the AC option .

[jacob29]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Chinese EV's are sold in China at a realistic price, nobody thinks they are dumping product there, yet their cars are much cheaper there than Thailand which IMHO should be harmonised to that price structure.  There is no valid reason they should cost so much more here.

The vast majority of manufacturers are selling at a loss on the mainland, if it's not dumping it's still unsustainable.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, jacob29 said:

The vast majority of manufacturers are selling at a loss on the mainland, if it's not dumping it's still unsustainable.

 

I would prefer to see some evidence of that....

[vinny41]

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think there is an issue with how we consider depreciation of EV's.

 

A car (to take Vinny's example) that used to cost 1,189k and now costs 599k by comparing to a purchase cost of 1,189k will have depreciated massively.  But if we compare it to the new cost of 599k then it hasn't depreciated so much.

 

I think the moment a manufacturer slashes the price of their cars, all used examples take an extra hit of depreciation.

 

Is it fair to say EV's depreciate rapidly because of that?  aren't we taking an extraordinary event to make a generalised  conclusion?

 

I think manufacturers are finding their feet regarding pricing of EV's.  Particularly the Chinese who aren't slashing their prices to survive, they are simply adjusting them to what they should be, and especially with the price of batteries falling.

 

Chinese EV's are sold in China at a realistic price, nobody thinks they are dumping product there, yet their cars are much cheaper there than Thailand which IMHO should be harmonised to that price structure.  There is no valid reason they should cost so much more here.

 

I think they entered the Thai market thinking they could make a quick killing and now that they have competition, ( mostly from each other) they are stabilising to real price and real value.

 

The big issue I think, is if China can build and sell quality EV's in China to a price, why can't the rest of the world even get remotely close to that?

 

Competition is great for the consumer, it pushes price down and quality up.

For anyone that bought a MG ZS EV in 2022 and paid the after subsidy price of B949,000

their car value is approx B485K although most MG ZS EV are being advertised for around B469K now if there was no price reductions and alllowing an annual depreciation rate of 10% per year their car should be valued at B769K

The Chinese EV Brands are reducing their prices to sell and they have a huge overstock but at the same time the price of parts are not reducing at the same level that is taking place with the price reductions on cars

For the Chinese EV manufacturers that signed up to EV 3.0 subsidy in 2022 the conditions are for every car they imported in 2022 and 2023 they are required to build on a 1 to 1 ratio in 2024 there is an allowance that states if you don't build your quota in 2024 you can carry over that quota into 2025 but the ratio changes to 1.5 Thai builds for every 1 vehicle imported if you don't hit the quota and the end of 2025 they have to repay the subsidy + fines + import duties I have seen reports where the fines range from B550K to B750K

The easiest solution would be if they were allowed for the 2023,2024 imports to be allowed to delay some of the local build into 2025/2026 on the same ratio as 2024 1 to 1 ratio

Even with B450K price reductions that is still cheaper than paying back the subsidy y + fines + import duties

Chinese EV industry in Thailand faces a crisis. It is demanding an urgent hearing from the government on its promotions

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/10/09/chinese-ev-industry-in-thailand-faces-crisis-it-is-demanding-an-urgent-hearing-from-the-government/

[vinny41]

40 minutes ago, jacob29 said:

What practical difference does it make whether it's 700% or 900%?  It's a number massively higher than 100%, which is the point being made. It's my poor math converting 8x to 900% when it should have been 700%.

 

If there are lots of links showing 100% increases in premiums, maybe you should post those instead of an article that talks about the volume of claims.

It makes a huge difference also important to show the baseline number

if I sold one product in 2022 and then I said I increased sales by 1000% in 2023 that would mean I sold 10 products in 2023 selling 10 products not as impressive as saying sales increased by 1000%

[jacob29]

45 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I would prefer to see some evidence of that....

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3275699/chinese-ev-makers-losses-mount-rising-sales-fail-offset-steep-discounts

[richard_smith237]

50 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

1) I don’t see the fact that there are plenty of apps for charging EV’s as a negative, on the contrary. While I have downloaded a few app I only use 2 in nearly a year, 1 has no money loaded and the other does have money loaded into a wallet but it doesn’t have a minimum and I can transfer the minimum amount to it shortly before charging if necessary.

Where is the negative ?

 

2) Now it appears that charging too fast is a negative ?, just choose the AC option .

 

Fair point - lots of apps but we can get used to that easily enough.

 

On the second point - having to go back to the car to move it is an inconvenience.

CCS2 chargers are great… but not at the shops etc (the one I just used didn't have a Type 2 AC charger).

 

Just highlighting that EV usage / charging etc not quite the perfect world.

 

Just pulled into a PTT station with KFC - so we could charge & grab a snack…

CCS2 chargers in use.

 

Another point - scanning all those QR codes on my phone  (QR stickers on the charge machines)…. that’s a massive security risk…. Lots of warnings going about alerting to the risk of scanning ‘fraudulent’ QR codes that gives scammers access to the phone. 
 

 

 

 

 

[jacob29]

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It makes a huge difference also important to show the baseline number

It's not a huge difference compared to 100%, which is the reason I  converted to percent (incorrectly) in the first place. 700% vs 100%, compared to 900% vs 100%. The point remains, that there is nothing unusual about a dramatic increase in the number of claims, considering the explosive growth in sales.

 

Baseline number is practically irrelevant, since it applies in equal measure to the number of insurance claims made (e.g. also makes your 100% increase in claim 'look impressive')

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by jacob29

[motdaeng]

41 minutes ago, jacob29 said:

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3275699/chinese-ev-makers-losses-mount-rising-sales-fail-offset-steep-discounts

 

i'm not a finance expert or a business expert...

but isn't it normal for every new car company to face years of losses before making profits?

the investment costs for a startup can easily reach a few billions of dollars...

 

tesla took about 15 years to produce at a profit, and now no one talks about that as a bad business

decision ... is there a different to the chinese ev car markers?

[KhunLA]

So ... any " Real Life Experiences " to add to the thread since I posted an update on my experience with the ZS, over 5 hrs ago 

 

PEACE OUT

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, jacob29 said:

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3275699/chinese-ev-makers-losses-mount-rising-sales-fail-offset-steep-discounts

 

That doesn't help your point as none of those automakers are in the general Thailand yet.  By far the largest Chinese automaker sold here is BYD who are profitable.

 

My point stands that prices here in Thailand should not be substantially different from China.  Chinese automakers are not dumping their cars in China and if they are being sold elsewhere for more than that, then they are not dumping there either.

 

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

i'm not a finance expert or a business expert...

but isn't it normal for every new car company to face years of losses before making profits?

the investment costs for a startup can easily reach a few billions of dollars...

 

tesla took about 15 years to produce at a profit, and now no one talks about that as a bad business

decision ... is there a different to the chinese ev car markers?

 

Yes, it's perfectly normal.  Costs are taken upfront and profits are taken as they are made.