Law enforcement ratchets up presence in voting process as some sheriffs push election conspiracy theories

[Scott]

 

Early voters dropping off ballots in Berks County, Pennsylvania, are confronted by a sight surprising for elections in the United States:  A pair of uniformed sheriff’s deputies armed with guns and tasers guarding the ballot box.  

 

Directed by local election officials to question voters before letting them deposit their ballots, the deputies guarding the drop boxes underscore the growing schism in this country over the debunked claims that the 2020 election was marred by rampant vote fraud.  

 

To some in Berks County, the deputies are only trying to ensure a fair and clean election. Others say their presence and direct questioning risks intimidating voters and stoking baseless conspiracy theories.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/03/politics/elections-law-enforcement-conspiracy-theories-invs/index.html

[Slip]

When I saw the headline I thought this was going to be about the authorities tackling the intimidation from armed magas at polling stations.  Imagine my surprise that it's a different wing involved.

[candide]

19 minutes ago, Slip said:

When I saw the headline I thought this was going to be about the authorities tackling the intimidation from armed magas at polling stations.  Imagine my surprise that it's a different wing involved.

Well, I'm not really surprised. 

[Bluespunk]

45 minutes ago, Slip said:

When I saw the headline I thought this was going to be about the authorities tackling the intimidation from armed magas at polling stations.  Imagine my surprise that it's a different wing involved.

Wish I could say I was surprised. 

[Bluespunk]

“Some of them are aligned with so-called “constitutional sheriffs” groups that claim their members have the right to ignore or block federal or state laws they deem unconstitutional and to intervene in elections.”

So paramilitary fascists… quelle surprise. 

[riclag]

The law enforcement was there to ask people if they filled their ballots out correctly, despite what cnn claims. Sad Imop! Fill out the ballots correctly for God sake .

 

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/hundreds-of-berks-ballots-canceled-after-court-ruling/article_e36fa878-5c4f-11ed-a68f-8bb5ec0328ae.html

 

Barnhardt, a Democrat, attempted to get his colleagues to agree to ballot curing based on a decision made last week to have deputy sheriffs stationed at the drop boxes to ask voters whether they signed and dated the envelope.

 

"I got to thinking, well, we're not affording the same courtesy to people that mailed theirs in," Barnhardt said, "so I think there is a little disparate treatment that we're asking deputy sheriffs to verify that you've done that before you put it in the box, but we're not doing the same for the mail-in ballots."

 

Barnhardt said that, as of Wednesday, the county had received 563 undated ballots and 49 ballots with erroneous dates.

[candide]

25 minutes ago, riclag said:

The law enforcement was there to ask people if they filled their ballots out correctly, despite what cnn claims. Sad Imop! Fill out the ballots correctly for God sake .

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/hundreds-of-berks-ballots-canceled-after-court-ruling/article_e36fa878-5c4f-11ed-a68f-8bb5ec0328ae.html

Barnhardt, a Democrat, attempted to get his colleagues to agree to ballot curing based on a decision made last week to have deputy sheriffs stationed at the drop boxes to ask voters whether they signed and dated the envelope.

"I got to thinking, well, we're not affording the same courtesy to people that mailed theirs in," Barnhardt said, "so I think there is a little disparate treatment that we're asking deputy sheriffs to verify that you've done that before you put it in the box, but we're not doing the same for the mail-in ballots."

Barnhardt said that, as of Wednesday, the county had received 563 undated ballots and 49 ballots with erroneous dates.

Unless there's something else which is unknown to me, you may have a point, for once.

[Why Me]

Well, we see the seeds of the conspiracy theory to replace "Russia dunnit": voters intimidated by officers asking their name and where they live.

[Credo]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

The law enforcement was there to ask people if they filled their ballots out correctly, despite what cnn claims. Sad Imop! Fill out the ballots correctly for God sake .

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/hundreds-of-berks-ballots-canceled-after-court-ruling/article_e36fa878-5c4f-11ed-a68f-8bb5ec0328ae.html

Barnhardt, a Democrat, attempted to get his colleagues to agree to ballot curing based on a decision made last week to have deputy sheriffs stationed at the drop boxes to ask voters whether they signed and dated the envelope.

"I got to thinking, well, we're not affording the same courtesy to people that mailed theirs in," Barnhardt said, "so I think there is a little disparate treatment that we're asking deputy sheriffs to verify that you've done that before you put it in the box, but we're not doing the same for the mail-in ballots."

Barnhardt said that, as of Wednesday, the county had received 563 undated ballots and 49 ballots with erroneous dates.

As far as I am concerned, this is nothing more than voter intimidation.  If I want to turn in a ballot that does not have my signature or date on the envelope, that is my businesses.  It's not a crime.  I don't need anyone questioning me, and certainly not the police.   

Are they monitoring the collection boxes 24/7 every day?  If not, then it's intimidation.  Apparently, they don't have any crimes to be dealing with because this is the biggest waste of time I can think of.   

I vote in a conservative state with a long history of mail-in and early voting.  Some areas are remote and making it to a poll is difficult.   So here's how it works:  Whether it is early voting or mail-in, your ballot arrives by mail.  Inside is the ballot and the envelope in which it has to be returned.  There is a bar code on the return envelope that is used to confirm basic information.  There is a place for the signature, date and your phone number.   

When your ballot is received, the signature is verified.  A panel of signature versifiers does this.  They are trained and there is one from each party.   They work independently, not together.  They have access to previous signatures on ballots and can access your signature on other state documents, like your Driver's License.  If the signatures don't match, the voter is contacted to clear up any discrepancy.   This system does work.  I know someone who was contacted about their signature.  The person had broken his arm and had a cast.  He could write, but it was more difficult and apparently, the number of hesitations in his signature got him flagged.  He went in with ID and signed an affidavit that it was his ballot.   

I haven't heard of anyone who had their ballot rejected for not having a date on the envelope, and rejecting it on that basis sounds pretty suspect.  If it is mailed in, the date it was mailed is clearly on the envelope.   

 

Any of the ballots that have a problem are considered to be provisional and there is a timeline to get it cleared up and if it is not, then the ballot is rejected.   

The system has worked very well for many, many years.  

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

The law enforcement was there to ask people if they filled their ballots out correctly, despite what cnn claims. Sad Imop! Fill out the ballots correctly for God sake .

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/hundreds-of-berks-ballots-canceled-after-court-ruling/article_e36fa878-5c4f-11ed-a68f-8bb5ec0328ae.html

Barnhardt, a Democrat, attempted to get his colleagues to agree to ballot curing based on a decision made last week to have deputy sheriffs stationed at the drop boxes to ask voters whether they signed and dated the envelope.

"I got to thinking, well, we're not affording the same courtesy to people that mailed theirs in," Barnhardt said, "so I think there is a little disparate treatment that we're asking deputy sheriffs to verify that you've done that before you put it in the box, but we're not doing the same for the mail-in ballots."

Barnhardt said that, as of Wednesday, the county had received 563 undated ballots and 49 ballots with erroneous dates.

Election officials can do that.

[JohnOFphon]

I can almost hear taps playing as the American Flag is lowered ....for the last time.  

I blame social media. 

 

[stevenl]

48 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Election officials can do that.

Exactly. If they have time for something like this maybe some of the money spent on police can be diverted to more socialable destinations.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, riclag said:

The law enforcement was there to ask people if they filled their ballots out correctly, despite what cnn claims.

 

Seems as though the Republican majority election commissioners in this part of Pennsylvania already were playing fast and loose with the state's election law.

 

Court orders Berks to certify undated mail-in ballots

...

The court on Friday ordered Berks, Lancaster and Fayette counties to certify the undated mail-in ballots that they received before May's primary election deadline.

 

The court ruled that the lack of a handwritten date "on the return envelope of a timely received absentee or mail-in ballot" does not disqualify the ballot.

...

The county's two Republican commissioners — Christian Leinbach and Michael Rivera — have said that they are following state law requiring ballots to be signed and the outside envelope to be signed and dated.

 

(more)

 

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/court-orders-berks-to-certify-undated-mail-in-ballots/article_01295442-1fe5-11ed-8e6b-27b47fcc4bc8.html

 

The court obviously disagreed with those two Republicans' interpretation of the state's election law.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And that county already has garnered some U.S. elections-related notoriety in recent months:

 

Berks man gets prison for role in attack on US Capitol

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Berks County man was sentenced on Friday to nearly three years in prison for assaulting an Associated Press photographer and attacking police officers with a stun gun during the U.S. Capitol riot.

...

Byerly, 55, pleaded guilty in July to assaulting AP photographer John Minchillo and then activating a stun gun as he charged at police officers who were trying to hold off the mob that formed outside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

...

Leaving the rally before then-President Donald Trump finished speaking, Byerly went to the west side of the Capitol and joined other rioters in using a metal Trump billboard as a battering ram against police, prosecutors said.

 

(more)

 

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/berks-man-gets-prison-for-role-in-attack-on-us-capitol/article_18f61018-5174-11ed-8eeb-ebe3f583cfbb.html

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Berks is also not the only county in that area of PA where the same practice is occurring. Add Lehigh County to the list:

Lehigh County DA says detectives’ ballot drop box monitoring continues; Berks County has had uniformed deputies watching boxes since 2020

...

Some Lehigh Democratic leaders and other entities called the plan “a criminalization of democracy.”

 

[Acting Secretary of State Leigh] Chapman said she, too, was concerned about voter intimidation.

 

“Law enforcement officers, whether they be in uniform or in civilian clothes, positioned near a ballot drop box may very well dissuade eligible voters as well as authorized designated agents from legally casting ballots,” Chapman said in the letter to Martin.

 

(more)

 

https://www.mcall.com/news/elections/mc-nws-pa-drop-box-discussions-20220511-zu7msut75nawza6ojqpleex5hq-story.html

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[candide]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And that county already has garnered some U.S. elections-related notoriety in recent months:

 

Berks man gets prison for role in attack on US Capitol

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Berks County man was sentenced on Friday to nearly three years in prison for assaulting an Associated Press photographer and attacking police officers with a stun gun during the U.S. Capitol riot.

...

Byerly, 55, pleaded guilty in July to assaulting AP photographer John Minchillo and then activating a stun gun as he charged at police officers who were trying to hold off the mob that formed outside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

...

Leaving the rally before then-President Donald Trump finished speaking, Byerly went to the west side of the Capitol and joined other rioters in using a metal Trump billboard as a battering ram against police, prosecutors said.

 

(more)

 

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks/berks-man-gets-prison-for-role-in-attack-on-us-capitol/article_18f61018-5174-11ed-8eeb-ebe3f583cfbb.html

 

 

A MAGA's nest, it seems!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, candide said:

A MAGA's nest, it seems!

Kinda sense a pattern might be going on there...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:00 PM, Credo said:

If I want to turn in a ballot that does not have my signature or date on the envelope, that is my businesses.  It's not a crime.  I don't need anyone questioning me, and certainly not the police.   

Actually you have every right to do so, but you don't have the right to have it counted if it doesn't comply with requirements for a valid ballot.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/6/2022 at 6:06 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

“Law enforcement officers, whether they be in uniform or in civilian clothes, positioned near a ballot drop box may very well dissuade eligible voters as well as authorized designated agents from legally casting ballots,” Chapman said in the letter to Martin.

 

Why? Unless they are wanted by the law, they surely have nothing to fear. Will not the Dems  have observers to make sure no harassment by said police officers?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, or perhaps setting the stage for appealing the vote when the Dems get wiped out by a big GOP win.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/5/2022 at 3:39 AM, Scott said:

Early voters dropping off ballots in Berks County, Pennsylvania, are confronted by a sight surprising for elections in the United States:  A pair of uniformed sheriff’s deputies armed with guns and tasers guarding the ballot box.  

LOL. That is really pushing it IMO. Guns and tasers would be part of a deputy's normal equipment.

[Credo]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why? Unless they are wanted by the law, they surely have nothing to fear. Will not the Dems  have observers to make sure no harassment by said police officers?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me, or perhaps setting the stage for appealing the vote when the Dems get wiped out by a big GOP win.

We don't need anybody policing the ballot boxes any more than we need people policing a postal box.  A fair number of people simply do not like the police, do not wish to engage with them and they are not wanted by the police.  The police do not have the right to question someone who is not suspected of a crime without their permission.  Voting is not a crime and if someone is voting illegally, they aren't going to catch it.  They don't have the voter registration list with them.  

 

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[Tippaporn]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:29 AM, stevenl said:

Exactly. If they have time for something like this maybe some of the money spent on police can be diverted to more socialable destinations.

Why object to police ensuring that ballots are legal before they're dropped?  Who wouldn't want that to ensure a fair election?  Or are you saying you prefer illegal ballots being dropped and counted?

[Tippaporn]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. That is really pushing it IMO. Guns and tasers would be part of a deputy's normal equipment.

IMO the mention of guns and tasers is included to hype up the 'voter suppression' narrative.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

IMO the mention of guns and tasers is included to hype up the 'voter suppression' narrative.

Indeed it was, IMO. Only to be expected from CNN.

Edited November 8, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[Tippaporn]

56 minutes ago, Credo said:

We don't need anybody policing the ballot boxes any more than we need people policing a postal box.  A fair number of people simply do not like the police, do not wish to engage with them and they are not wanted by the police.  The police do not have the right to question someone who is not suspected of a crime without their permission.  Voting is not a crime and if someone is voting illegally, they aren't going to catch it.  They don't have the voter registration list with them.  

 

If they're ensuring that ballots dropped are legal then sure they're preventing illegal ballots from being cast.  What's your problem with that?

As far as people feeling uncomfortable with police presence that's a canard if the police are there only to ensure that the law is being followed.

[Credo]

5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

If they're ensuring that ballots dropped are legal then sure they're preventing illegal ballots from being cast.  What's your problem with that?

As far as people feeling uncomfortable with police presence that's a canard if the police are there only to ensure that the law is being followed.

First, it infringes on my freedom of movement and to vote.  It's harassment and intimidation.  It does not stop illegal voting.  Any ballot has to be signed.  The voter has to be on the voter registration list.  The voter has to have requested a ballot.  If a ballot is submitted without a signature, it's not counted.  If the signature doesn't mask with previous signatures for voting and other documents (such as a Driver's License), it's removed.  Depending on the state, the person may be contacted to clarify any discrepancies -- and they must clear it up with a signed, formal affidavit.  If they do not then it's referred to the DA for possible prosecution.   

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Credo said:

First, it infringes on my freedom of movement and to vote.  It's harassment and intimidation.  It does not stop illegal voting.  Any ballot has to be signed.  The voter has to be on the voter registration list.  The voter has to have requested a ballot.  If a ballot is submitted without a signature, it's not counted.  If the signature doesn't mask with previous signatures for voting and other documents (such as a Driver's License), it's removed.  Depending on the state, the person may be contacted to clarify any discrepancies -- and they must clear it up with a signed, formal affidavit.  If they do not then it's referred to the DA for possible prosecution.   

 

Seems that having the police check the ballot is correct saves a lot of taxpayer money being wasted following up on following up on incorrect ballots. It's not like they see how the person voted.

How does it "infringes on my freedom of movement and to vote" if they are not stopping anyone voting with a correct ballot?

Intimidation? Are you fearful of the cops?

Saving taxpayer money is always a good thing.

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, Credo said:

First, it infringes on my freedom of movement and to vote.  It's harassment and intimidation.

People are getting soooo tired of those who make never ending claims of every type that their personal interpretations and their personal feelings should be everyone's truth.

Then explain all of those people who do not feel that it infringes, harasses or intimidates.  I myself would feel reassured and be grateful of their presence.