Proof of retirement (SSA supporting letter)?

[Jason44]

I plan on visiting Thailand for three months. I followed the suggestion of another forum member, because I am over 50 years of age, and decided to apply for the Non-Immigrant O Retirement visa. Under Financial Evidence, I uploaded my brokerage statement for the past three months, which shows more than enough income to satisfy the income requirement. However, today I received a request for further documentation, one of which was my "Proof of retirement (SSA supporting letter)".

 

I searched through the forum, and cannot find mention of anyone else who has had to provide this letter. Because , I am not yet collecting Social Security (most in the US don't until they are between 65 and 70), I am confused as to what the agent actually wants me to provide? Should I just resend the financial evidence which I have previously provided, and reiterate that that is my income (i.e. dividends from my investments)?

 

(One theme that I have noticed from forum posts, is that the visa applications will often ask for the same information more than once, and members suggest merely pointing the representative to look at the documents provided to another question on the application. For example, one question where you have to provide proof of residency and then a later question being asked to verify your current residency, in which other forum members simply submit their passport for both.)

 

It seems bizarre that the agent should ask for documentation that is not listed as one of the requirements (https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/) and even more so, since I had already provided proof of income. Has anyone seen this happen to them before or a suggestion as to how I should respond?

[ubonjoe]

The embassy website only mentions financial proof equal to the standard 20k baht for all visa applications. They state that is $700 on the page you posted a link to.

Are you sure that you do did not apply for a Non-OA visa by mistake when doing the online application, It does require proof of 65k baht income.

Not sure it is worth the effort to apply for a non-o visa for only a 90 day stay. A tourist visa would allow a total stay of 90 days by extending the 60 days it allows for 30 days at immigration.

[DrJack54]

59 minutes ago, Jason44 said:

I plan on visiting Thailand for three months. I followed the suggestion of another forum member, because I am over 50 years of age, and decided to apply for the Non-Immigrant O Retirement visa.

For a 3 month stay only? 

You would be better off with a tourist visa (60 days) plus one 30 day extension

OR Enter Visa exempt (45 days)

and do one border bounce for a second visa exempt entry via land (45 days) 

Both give total 90 days. 

Require longer ? Then you can obtain 30 day extensions to each entry.

 

[Jason44]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure it is worth the effort to apply for a non-o visa for only a 90 day stay. A tourist visa would allow a total stay of 90 days by extending the 60 days it allows for 30 days at immigration.

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

For a 3 month stay only? 

You would be better off with a tourist visa (60 days) plus one 30 day extension

I get what you both are saying. However, getting the Non-O removes any hassle about having to navigate my way through getting an extension. I can see on the forum that people mention getting an extension as if it is nothing. Pay 1900 baht and you are done, no problem. But I also see mention of travelers who have had difficult immigration officers who cause issues.

 

So, I also see the possibilities for a ton of different complications. Right now I have airline and hotel reservations that are 90 days in duration. I would need to change those to match 45 or 60 days accordingly, or else risk the immigration officer asking why my itinerary does not match. 

For me, the 90-day Non-O visa appeared to be a perfect fit. But now the visa official is asking for documentation that is not required. (Guess I am not avoiding further complications after all. ????) 

[Jason44]

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you sure that you do did not apply for a Non-OA visa by mistake when doing the online application, It does require proof of 65k baht income.

I appreciate the response. Yes, I double checked, and it is the Non-Immigrant O Visa which I applied for, so I do not understand why I am being asked for a SSA letter, when that is not mentioned anywhere in the requirements. ????‍♂️

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, Jason44 said:

I appreciate the response. Yes, I double checked, and it is the Non-Immigrant O Visa which I applied for, so I do not understand why I am being asked for a SSA letter, when that is not mentioned anywhere in the requirements. ????‍♂️

Take the advice given. You have already come across more hassle than you expected.

 

I don't know anyone who has been asked to prove their retirement status.

[skatewash]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:07 AM, Jason44 said:

I get what you both are saying. However, getting the Non-O removes any hassle about having to navigate my way through getting an extension. I can see on the forum that people mention getting an extension as if it is nothing. Pay 1900 baht and you are done, no problem. But I also see mention of travelers who have had difficult immigration officers who cause issues.

 

So, I also see the possibilities for a ton of different complications. Right now I have airline and hotel reservations that are 90 days in duration. I would need to change those to match 45 or 60 days accordingly, or else risk the immigration officer asking why my itinerary does not match. 

For me, the 90-day Non-O visa appeared to be a perfect fit. But now the visa official is asking for documentation that is not required. (Guess I am not avoiding further complications after all. ????) 

Getting a 30-day extension of stay for purposes of tourism is indeed as close to a sure thing as you can get.  The requirements are almost non-existent and there is really nothing to prove to immigration.  If you will be staying in hotels, which do the address notification (TM-30) for you, there is really no potential problem with getting this particular extension.

The airline problem can be solved by renting an onward ticket.  For example, https://onwardticket.com/.  Google onward tickets for other alternatives.  The cost for most is around $10, which gives you proof of an onward ticket to show airport check-in staff that will satisfy their concern and allow you to board.  Thai immigration in Thailand will not raise the same concern.

[JimTripper]

Does SSA give a letter of projected future payouts, even if your not yet collecting?

 

I know it has this info on the website. Worst case print it out and send that in.

Edited November 11, 2022 by JimTripper

[cjinchiangrai]

You need a big wad of cash for an O visa. The O implies that you are going to deposit 800k baht within 90 days. Americans are not eligible for the 65k a month income version because the State Department will not certify pensions. You will need to be able to show ~500k in cash available to be deposited in Thailand.

[Dan O]

35 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Does SSA give a letter of projected future payouts, even if your not yet collecting?

 

I know it has this info on the website. Worst case print it out and send that in.

They give a "projected" income until you actually apply and start to receive your benefit. That letter  outlines the monthly payment projection.

 

Once you start to receive benifits you'll get a letter that details the actual payments but it will not be accepted as proof of income. 

[flexomike]

2 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

You need a big wad of cash for an O visa. The O implies that you are going to deposit 800k baht within 90 days. Americans are not eligible for the 65k a month income version because the State Department will not certify pensions. You will need to be able to show ~500k in cash available to be deposited in Thailand.

he is not applying for an extension, he just wants to get a 90 day non O in the states

[flexomike]

just looked at the Chicago website and the only visa for over 50 and not married to a Thai is an OA, which will require insurance along with all the other requirements, you do not want to get this for just a 90 day stay, do as others have suggested, tourist visa or come in visa exempt

[Paradise Pete]

12 hours ago, skatewash said:

The airline problem can be solved by renting an onward ticket.  For example, https://onwardticket.com/.  Google onward tickets for other alternatives.  The cost for most is around $10, which gives you proof of an onward ticket to show airport check-in staff that will satisfy their concern and allow you to board.  

Interesting. I'd not heard of that. From looking at the site, though, it says you get a reservation, not a ticket. Is that good enough?

 

[skatewash]

1 minute ago, Paradise Pete said:

Interesting. I'd not heard of that. From looking at the site, though, it says you get a reservation, not a ticket. Is that good enough?

 

Yeah, should have made it clear you are only getting a booking or reservation not an actual ticket.  You won't be able to actually use the reservation or booking to get a ticket but it is enough to satisfy airline check-in staff.

[Jason44]

11 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Does SSA give a letter of projected future payouts, even if your not yet collecting?

 

I know it has this info on the website. Worst case print it out and send that in.

Thanks that is an idea that I am considering. If you generate a Proof of Retirement from SSA today, it will merely tell you that you are not collecting funds. But they do send an annual statement that show what your expected benefits are intended to be. Not sure if they would accept that as proof, but perhaps I can include that as well as showing my current "pension" (i.e. dividends).

[Jason44]

11 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

You need a big wad of cash for an O visa. The O implies that you are going to deposit 800k baht within 90 days. Americans are not eligible for the 65k a month income version because the State Department will not certify pensions. You will need to be able to show ~500k in cash available to be deposited in Thailand.

Is that accurate? There appear to be many sub-categories of the Non-Immigrant O visa, many of which do not deal with retirement, but rather family relations (marriage, relatives, or children). But one of the categories is for Retirement visits of no more than 90 days.

 

I believe that what you are describing is the Non-Immigrant O-A Retirement visa, which allows stays of up to one year, but also has the requirement that you deposit funds into a Thai bank.

9 hours ago, flexomike said:

just looked at the Chicago website and the only visa for over 50 and not married to a Thai is an OA, which will require insurance along with all the other requirements, you do not want to get this for just a 90 day stay, do as others have suggested, tourist visa or come in visa exempt

You have to get further into the application process. On the web site they list one collection of categories, but if you actually start the application, then one of the sub-categories that you can apply for is the Non-Immigrant O Retirement, which allows for stays of no more than 90 days.

 

Members appear to be split, as I initially took this approach based on the suggestion(s) from other members, who have used this approach several times in the past.

[Jingthing]

Why not just fly in get your 45 days at the airport and then do a visa run out and in air or land? Another 45 days.

That's 90 days.

Am I missing something? 

To me it's totally bonkers to bother with a 90 day O from the US unless you intend to convert that to an annual retirement extension in Thailand from that, which you don't even need to do because you can usually get the initial 90 day O IN Thailand when you want to do that (bank account method 800K baht). 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jason44]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Why not just fly in get your 45 days at the airport and then do a visa run out and in air or land? Another 45 days.

That's 90 days.

Am I missing something? 

Three things.

 

First, as someone who has never visited Thailand before, counting on an extension or a border bounce seems risky (to me). Many in the forum mention these items as if they are nothing, and they may very well be. I was just looking to do the approach that provided the least amount of hassle, once I had entered Thailand. This may be one of those things that once I have done it, it is such an easy process that it becomes a no-brainer. But for someone who has spent a frustrating day or two at the DMV in the US, the idea of trying to navigate a foreign bureaucracy in a language I don't speak, while in the middle of my vacation, sounds problematic.

 

Second, currently I have both flight and hotel reservations for 90 days. Immigration probably won't care if I have a hotel reservation for the full 90 days, but they might cause issues if my outbound flight is longer than the initial amount of time I am allowed to stay in the country. Not saying that they would, but since entry is often at the "sole discretion of the officer", I was not looking for anything which would cause the officer to deny my entry. (Someone above mentioned the Onward Ticket option, which is something that I might consider.)

 

Finally, as I understand it, That immigration requirements change all the time. Up until September, I believe that they were offering 60 days when you arrived, but then that suddenly changed. And I believe that the 45-day stay itself is a modification of a policy which used to be 30 days. Whereas with a visa, it is "locked in".

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, Jason44 said:

Three things.

 

First, as someone who has never visited Thailand before, counting on an extension or a border bounce seems risky (to me). Many in the forum mention these items as if they are nothing, and they may very well be. I was just looking to do the approach that provided the least amount of hassle, once I had entered Thailand. This may be one of those things that once I have done it, it is such an easy process that it becomes a no-brainer. But for someone who has spent a frustrating day or two at the DMV in the US, the idea of trying to navigate a foreign bureaucracy in a language I don't speak, while in the middle of my vacation, sounds problematic.

 

Second, currently I have both flight and hotel reservations for 90 days. Immigration probably won't care if I have a hotel reservation for the full 90 days, but they might cause issues if my outbound flight is longer than the initial amount of time I am allowed to stay in the country. Not saying that they would, but since entry is often at the "sole discretion of the officer", I was not looking for anything which would cause the officer to deny my entry. (Someone above mentioned the Onward Ticket option, which is something that I might consider.)

 

Finally, as I understand it, That immigration requirements change all the time. Up until September, I believe that they were offering 60 days when you arrived, but then that suddenly changed. And I believe that the 45-day stay itself is a modification of a policy which used to be 30 days. Whereas with a visa, it is "locked in".

Change your hotel bookings. Buy a RT air ticket to a nearby country before your first 45 days. Show that ticket your airline in the US will let you board. 

Why not make a great side trip of it like to Siam Reap  Penang, or Singapore, etc.?

My understanding is that currently land visa runs should be booked through a specialist company on places like Pattaya and Chiang Mai.

I can't address your existential worries. There are pros and cons to any approach. I was actually looking for feedback from a seasoned expat on my idea. I personally have had no need for a visa run in over a decade. Good luck.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Jason44 said:

Thanks that is an idea that I am considering. If you generate a Proof of Retirement from SSA today, it will merely tell you that you are not collecting funds. But they do send an annual statement that show what your expected benefits are intended to be. Not sure if they would accept that as proof, but perhaps I can include that as well as showing my current "pension" (i.e. dividends).

Years ago I had a similar problem at that same DC embassy. The lady kept calling at 6am in the morning, spoke bad English, and requesting stuff that was not on the official list.

 

I had to pay to change my airline flight date. Then due to a delay on their end, would have had to change it again a second time which I did not do.

 

I ended up telling her to return my passport asap, they returned the check for the visa ($200 I think) and my passport.

 

I ended up flying in without a visa and just getting another three month one in Sihanoukville Cambodia with no problems.

 

Never any problems at the LA embassy over many years btw. I wonder if you have the same lady from DC? ???? Something about this sounds real familiar.

 

Does a lady call on the phone? She sounds rushed and stressed out and you can barely understand her?

Edited November 11, 2022 by JimTripper

[RedArmy]

Some people just love to make things more complicated for themselves - Chill out & just either enter on an initial 45 day Visa Exempt entry or apply for a 60 day tourist Visa - Job done.

[Jason44]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Never any problems at the LA embassy over many years btw. I wonder if you have the same lady from DC? ???? Something about this sounds real familiar.

 

Does a lady call on the phone? She sounds rushed and stressed out and you can barely understand her?

With the switch to eVisa I do not believe that they do phone calls any more. For better or worse, it is all done online and through e-mail. The e-mail that I received does not identify a specific individual nor have contact information for a particular agent. And if you want to follow up, you apparently cannot call, but instead need to send an inquiry to a bulk mailbox, to which they will respond within five business days. 

Unfortunately, I do not have a choice as to which embassy to submit my visa, unless of course I decide to move. ???? It is frustrating that the documents being asked for don't match the documents listed on any of the Thai web site, but I think that this is just a matter of a bureaucrat trying to check a box. I went ahead and sent my supporting documents this morning, and we will see how that works out.

 

Thanks for the feedback. This was a lot more helpful than the suggestions to just apply for a different kind of visa. ????

[Jason44]

Just to follow up on this initial topic. After sending a copy of my brokerage statement, which documented my income for the past three months, I received a second request for documentation. That request was to send a copy of my most recent income tax return. I forwarded a copy of my tax return, after redacting my social security number, and received my visa approval the same day.

 

It most likely would have been easier to just have gotten the 60-day Tourist visa and then apply for the extension once I arrived in Thailand. But I do feel more secure knowing that I have a visa for the full 90 days, and do not need to worry about changing my flight and hotel reservations, or navigating the immigration process once I am already in Thailand.

 

Thank you to all who provided feedback about this process.