Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[DaLa]

10 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe ignoring reality is seen as a shrewd business practice.

I couldn’t ignore the European Green Deal with maritime transport that cost me an extra 10% of my shipping expenses. Had no choice.

 

Meanwhile my business in in fine shape thanks all the same. Helps being an optimist and working to find solutions rather than problems.

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, DaLa said:

I wonder if the vote had been to remain this topic would have seen 100 pages of defeatist bitterness from the leavers. Always found people that accept change to be more stoic and come through as winners in the end.

 

No pain no gain.

The motto of masochists if ever there was one. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by placeholder

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, DaLa said:

Meanwhile my business in in fine shape thanks all the same. Helps being an optimist and working to find solutions rather than problems.

Utterly believable!

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, DaLa said:

I wonder if the vote had been to remain this topic would have seen 100 pages of defeatist bitterness from the leavers. Always found people that accept change to be more stoic and come through as winners in the end.

 

No pain no gain.

I've been thinking about what you've written here and perhaps I was unfair in my comments about masochism. It could be that you just revolutionized the whole field of economics. Your thesis seems to be "the harder it is to do business, the more business will get done." Clearly, what the UK needs to do is to pile on even more paperwork to match what the EU is doing. And impose inspections just as strict and time-consuming. The result being that the UK will prosper as never before!

[superal]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

The motto of masochists if ever there was one. 

  2 hours ago, DaLa said:

I wonder if the vote had been to remain this topic would have seen 100 pages of defeatist bitterness from the leavers. Always found people that accept change to be more stoic and come through as winners in the end.

 

No pain no gain. 

 

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

The motto of masochists if ever there was one. 

Try looking up DEMOCRACY 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, DaLa said:

I wonder if the vote had been to remain this topic would have seen 100 pages of defeatist bitterness from the leavers. Always found people that accept change to be more stoic and come through as winners in the end.

 

No pain no gain.

 

PS I run a business in the UK, I ignore the reporting of the economy by the media and get on with my life. Try it you’ll suffer less stress, sleeplessness and fatigue.

The decision to leave the EU brought me insecurity and (some) stress overnight, so 'yes' I was - and remain - bitter.

 

This bitterness might have evaporated if I could identify some overall benefits but, sadly, I can't.

 

You mentioned that you run a business in the UK. Do you import from/ export to the EU now and did you do so pre-Brexit? If so, what effect has Brexit had on your business either financially or otherwise. What sector are you involved in?

 

(Will understand if you do not want to share information).

[RayC]

Oh yes. 100 up????

[josephbloggs]

39 minutes ago, RayC said:

Oh yes. 100 up????

100 pages and not one person admitting they are right or wrong on anything. But that's fine because we (Remainers) are right and they are wrong.  ????

[Kwasaki]

15 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

100 pages and not one person admitting they are right or wrong on anything. But that's fine because we (Remainers) are right and they are wrong.  ????

No the weak remainers in business who wanted it simple and cannot cope, are well rid of. ????

[josephbloggs]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

No the weak remainers in business who wanted it simple and cannot cope, are well rid of. ????

So not wanting business to be deliberately made more cumbersome, more expensive, more inefficient, and cutting the size of your market is a bad thing?  We should want that instead to prove how tough we are?  

One of the most illogical things I have read in this thread.......and there have been many!

[Mac Mickmanus]

41 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

100 pages and not one person admitting they are right or wrong on anything. But that's fine because we (Remainers) are right and they are wrong.  ????

How has Brexit personally affected you ?

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

So not wanting business to be deliberately made more cumbersome, more expensive, more inefficient, and cutting the size of your market is a bad thing?  We should want that instead to prove how tough we are?  

One of the most illogical things I have read in this thread.......and there have been many!

No it's sooo typical of people like you in business who just cannot and don't get your business to adjust to the situation you find yourself in.

 

It is illogical for remainers like you which is the problem not being able to cope,  so you should not be in business.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How has Brexit personally affected you ?

Pretty obvious how it's affected him and others like him they are just not strong enough to cope. 

[josephbloggs]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Pretty obvious how it's affected him and others like him they are just not strong enough to cope. 

Do you want to come up with a more childish argument? Should we not want business to be made easier so the country can prosper? Isn't that what a government is supposed to do?  Why is making it more difficult a good thing?

And when we had easy trade with a huge neighboring bloc for decades and we decided to make that much more difficult and it made our business less competitive against European rivals we should just magically adapt and say "hey ho". But you are ok because you are big and strong so to those small businesses who are no longer competitive through no fault of their own, they should just die. Because they are not as smart as you so they deserve it. You really believe it is that simple? That would explain why you so easily believed all the lies that were spoon fed you too. You may be super strong but you are also gullible.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Do you want to come up with a more childish argument? Should we not want business to be made easier so the country can prosper? Isn't that what a government is supposed to do?  Why is making it more difficult a good thing?

And when we had easy trade with a huge neighboring bloc for decades and we decided to make that much more difficult and it made our business less competitive against European rivals we should just magically adapt and say "hey ho". But you are ok because you are big and strong so to those small businesses who are no longer competitive through no fault of their own, they should just die. Because they are not as smart as you so they deserve it. You really believe it is that simple? That would explain why you so easily believed all the lies that were spoon fed you too. You may be super strong but you are also gullible.

I don't think you understand. It's good for the UK that those slackers are no longer bringing so much money into the UK economy and buying as much from other businesses in the UK. Which will make doing business harder for those people which will be good for the uk because those businesses in turn will buy less from other uk businesses and so forth and so on. And it gets even better because they all will also be paying less in taxes. Ya see, sometimes lose, lose = win, win.  Do you understand it now?

[josephbloggs]

28 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How has Brexit personally affected you ?

What relevance does that have? I run a business here in Thailand and have done for over two decades so it did not affect my trade (not that I run a trading company, I don't). It has affected my family in the UK. It has affected my children who wanted to live and work in Europe to gain global experience and soak up other cultures. I always preached to them the importance of it because I have lived all over the world since I was 21 years old and it opened my eyes tremendously.   Now they can't as that right has been snatched away. So it has affected me.

And it has saddened me how my country that was built on tolerance and multiculturalism has resorted to an intolerant, inward looking, xenophobic place that cut off its nose to spite its face, and the majority of it was built on outright lies. And when we called them out people put their fingers in their ears and shouted "project fear". Six years later what is better? Name a single thing without using a generic cliche like "free of EU shackles". Name one. Blue passports made in Poland? Anything else? Remember, no generic cliches please.

For me, if I disagreed with it on principle but I could see the other side I would admit "I don't agree with it on principle but I can see some benefits much as I don't like them". But I can't see any.  And Brexiteers can't bring themselves to admit things are not working that well or that they were lied to when it is staring them in the face. They just gloss over it with "struggle makes you strong" or "you should (magically) adapt", or "it needs time, it'll be better in the future". When? How long in to the future? And how many people will suffer in the meantime? 

 

That's the difference.

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't think you understand. It's good for the UK that those slackers are no longer bringing so much money into the UK economy and buying as much from other businesses in the UK. Which will make doing business harder for those people which will be good for the uk because those businesses in turn will buy less from other uk businesses and so forth and so on. And it gets even better because they all will also be paying less in taxes. Ya see, sometimes lose, lose = win, win.  Do you understand it now?

No.

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

What relevance does that have? I run a business here in Thailand and have done for over two decades so it did not affect my trade (not that I run a trading company, I don't). It has affected my family in the UK. It has affected my children who wanted to live and work in Europe to gain global experience and soak up other cultures. I always preached to them the importance of it because I have lived all over the world since I was 21 years old and it opened my eyes tremendously.   Now they can't as that right has been snatched away. So it has affected me.

And it has saddened me how my country that was built on tolerance and multiculturalism has resorted to an intolerant, inward looking, xenophobic place that cut off its nose to spite its face, and the majority of it was built on outright lies. And when we called them out people put their fingers in their ears and shouted "project fear". Six years later what is better? Name a single thing without using a generic cliche like "free of EU shackles". Name one. Blue passports made in Poland? Anything else? Remember, no generic cliches please.

For me, if I disagreed with it on principle but I could see the other side I would admit "I don't agree with it on principle but I can see some benefits much as I don't like them". But I can't see any.  And Brexiteers can't bring themselves to admit things are not working that well or that they were lied to when it is staring them in the face. They just gloss over it with "struggle makes you strong" or "you should (magically) adapt", or "it needs time, it'll be better in the future". When? How long in to the future? And how many people will suffer in the meantime? 

 

That's the difference.

 

You run a business in Thailand well that just puts you in perspective.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

No.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about the fact that decreasing the number of prosperous businesses in the UK is actually good for the UK economy.

Edited January 5, 2023 by placeholder

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

You run a business in Thailand well that just puts you in perspective.

Meaning?

I live here, have done for years. Where else would I run a business except in the country I set up a business in?

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

What relevance does that have? I run a business here in Thailand and have done for over two decades so it did not affect my trade (not that I run a trading company, I don't). It has affected my family in the UK. It has affected my children who wanted to live and work in Europe to gain global experience and soak up other cultures. I always preached to them the importance of it because I have lived all over the world since I was 21 years old and it opened my eyes tremendously.   Now they can't as that right has been snatched away. So it has affected me.

And it has saddened me how my country that was built on tolerance and multiculturalism has resorted to an intolerant, inward looking, xenophobic place that cut off its nose to spite its face, and the majority of it was built on outright lies. And when we called them out people put their fingers in their ears and shouted "project fear". Six years later what is better? Name a single thing without using a generic cliche like "free of EU shackles". Name one. Blue passports made in Poland? Anything else? Remember, no generic cliches please.

For me, if I disagreed with it on principle but I could see the other side I would admit "I don't agree with it on principle but I can see some benefits much as I don't like them". But I can't see any.  And Brexiteers can't bring themselves to admit things are not working that well or that they were lied to when it is staring them in the face. They just gloss over it with "struggle makes you strong" or "you should (magically) adapt", or "it needs time, it'll be better in the future". When? How long in to the future? And how many people will suffer in the meantime? 

 

That's the difference.

It has no relevance. This is just Mickmanus trying to make it personal. As though alleged personal experience, whether actual or not, actually have evidentiary value when drawn from a nation that has over 65 million inhabitants.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

You run a business in Thailand well that just puts you in perspective.

And your unverifiable personal claims put you in perspective, too.

Edited January 5, 2023 by placeholder

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I don't see what's so hard to understand about the fact the decreasing the number of prosperous businesses in the UK is actually good for the UK economy.

So you were in favour of Brexit because it would put people out of business and that is good? Right? So you do admit Brexit has caused harm to business then? But you think that's great. Righty ho.

Sunlit uplands here we come (apart from those who are now bankrupt).

[placeholder]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

So you were in favour of Brexit because it would put people out of business and that is good? Right? So you do admit Brexit has caused harm to business then? But you think that's great. Righty ho.

Sunlit uplands here we come (apart from those who are now bankrupt).

I'm just trying explicate more clearly the revolutionary and in-absolutely-no-way-nonsensical arguments of members like DaLa and Kwasaki.

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

What relevance does that have? I run a business here in Thailand and have done for over two decades so it did not affect my trade (not that I run a trading company, I don't). It has affected my family in the UK. It has affected my children who wanted to live and work in Europe to gain global experience and soak up other cultures. I always preached to them the importance of it because I have lived all over the world since I was 21 years old and it opened my eyes tremendously.   Now they can't as that right has been snatched away. So it has affected me.

And it has saddened me how my country that was built on tolerance and multiculturalism has resorted to an intolerant, inward looking, xenophobic place that cut off its nose to spite its face, and the majority of it was built on outright lies. And when we called them out people put their fingers in their ears and shouted "project fear". Six years later what is better? Name a single thing without using a generic cliche like "free of EU shackles". Name one. Blue passports made in Poland? Anything else? Remember, no generic cliches please.

For me, if I disagreed with it on principle but I could see the other side I would admit "I don't agree with it on principle but I can see some benefits much as I don't like them". But I can't see any.  And Brexiteers can't bring themselves to admit things are not working that well or that they were lied to when it is staring them in the face. They just gloss over it with "struggle makes you strong" or "you should (magically) adapt", or "it needs time, it'll be better in the future". When? How long in to the future? And how many people will suffer in the meantime? 

 

That's the difference.

There is nothing preventing your children working and living in Europe

https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad#:~:text=You'll need a work,what you need to do.

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Meaning?

I live here, have done for years. Where else would I run a business except in the country I set up a business in?

Meaning. 

 

The UK is struggling. ????

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm just trying explicate more clearly the revolutionary and in-absolutely-no-way-nonsensical arguments of members like DaLa and Kwasaki.

D'oh!  Sorry I get it now, I lost track of who was who. 

It says a lot that I thought you were an actual Brexiteer being serious because that is kind of a believable logic that would be thrown out there.

[josephbloggs]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There is nothing preventing your children working and living in Europe

https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad#:~:text=You'll need a work,what you need to do.

Sigh. No, there isn't, just as in the same way there is nothing stopping anyone from living and working in Thailand. It's that easy, right? Any 18 year old can come here and work in a coffee shop or a resturant and gain worldly experience? Correct?

 

Ridiculous.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

D'oh!  Sorry I get it now, I lost track of who was who. 

It says a lot that I thought you were an actual Brexiteer being serious because that is kind of a believable logic that would be thrown out there.

Sometimes I start half-believing...nah not really.

And, I never take these people at their word about what their actual situations really are. In fact, I don't take anyone on this forum at their word about their personal experiences in large matter like this. How to verify? Do the moderators run background checks on all members to ensure that their personal reports are accurate? Telling me how to repair a bathtub is one thing. Claiming certain personal experience as relevant to issues that affect millions is quite another.

And for the same reason, I don't acquiesce in their attempts to make it personal about me. Or, in a very recent case about you and them:

"You obviously cannot cope, get some proffesion business help my family are still doing very well.."

Comments like this reveal how little integrity and how much hostility some posters harbor.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There is nothing preventing your children working and living in Europe

https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad#:~:text=You'll need a work,what you need to do.

This is from your the page your link connects to:

 

"If you were legally living in an EU country before 1 January 2021, your right to work will be protected as long as you carry on living there. This is because you are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement.

You’re also protected by the Withdrawal Agreement if you started working in one EU country and living in a different EU country or the UK, before 1 January 2021.

You’ll have the same rights as nationals of the country you’re working in when it comes to working conditions, pay and social security (for example, benefits)."

 

See any difference between then and now?