Assimilation with Thai Culture

[ChaiyaTH]

Silly poll it is, if the first answer is yes, the second and third question is pointless. We just need around 950 more votes to have a small data sample worth looking at too.

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

No you proved my point. Ranting on with nonsense.

Perhaps it is just better for you to avoid every white man (farang)....   but then I’d have to question why on earth you’d bother with this forum...   

 

... unhinged and irrational indeed.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Silly poll it is, if the first answer is yes, the second and third question is pointless. We just need around 950 more votes to have a small data sample worth looking at too.

I know same question reworded.

 

 

[roo860]

23 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I don't know about handshake but baby Thais begin to have their hands pressed together by their elders to form a wai  starting at about age 2.

 

... excluding Ronald McDonald.

Correct

[Sparktrader]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Perhaps it is just better for you to avoid every white man (farang)....   but then I’d have to question why on earth you’d bother with this forum...   

 

... unhinged and irrational indeed.

 

 

Thats better. Shorter post. I read the whole lot this time. Internet provides distance. In a bar get a headache listing to a lecture. Can just read 10% online then skip.

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I don't know about handshake but baby Thais begin to have their hands pressed together by their elders to form a wai  starting at about age 2.

Thats something I’ve always hated to see....

I’ve seen friends do that to their children....  My Wife started doing that to my Son..

I asked her if I should also force him to shake someones hand.

 

I pointed out that anything we force him to do he won’t want to do and will act against it... We can parent better. We did encourage manners, eye contact, conversation with adults etc...  but not the forced Wai... we did have to ‘remind’ our son to 'come say hello’ and he would...  but never the forced Wai. 

 

Now he’s a little older he seems to know when he needs to Wai and be polite as do many other children his age. 

 

IMO - that forced Wai is doing nothing for children's manners, its simply putting them in an uncomfortable situation and doesn’t help their confidence. 

I suspect ’some’ parents think its cute, others see other parents doing the same thing so think thats the way they should teach their children to do it.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Thats better. Shorter post. I read the whole lot this time. Internet provides distance. In a bar get a headache listing to a lecture. Can just read 10% online then skip.

Well... from the ‘king of one line comments’..... I get that... 

 

I do also see your point...  its easy to scroll past a post... whereas in a bar its harder to scroll past someone talking with you, there are more places to meet people than a bar though.

 

Most of the people I know are through work, sports or introduction...  avoiding any of them because they are ‘farang’... is just odd... 

 

... avoiding the lone drunk farang in the beer bar trying to strike up conversation is perhaps better understood.... 

 

(apologies if that post being longer than one line was too much for you !).

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats something I’ve always hated to see....

I am guessing you are not Thai.

[473geo]

Free thinker, critical thinker 

Forward planner

Not one to follow the crowd 

Always seeking knowledge and ideas 

Capable of managing change 

Reluctant to unquestionably bow to authority

Provide my own solutions 

Not seeking to actively avoid living in my own country 

Speak my mind easily rather than cautiously  

Find it difficult to stand by and not offer to assist where I feel I could be useful 

Am aware that while a Thai can give away their last baht and survive, I would be kicked out of the country 

 

So how do you think I would do 'assimilating' 

 

How about I am kind and generous to my family

I employ neighbours and family to do some work 

I wai when in the mood, a wave of the hand if I feel that is enough 

I smile, speak, wave to acknowledge people as I cycle through the village, the vast majority return my greetings 

I attend the local temple and donate 

I am learning to speak a little Thai but doubt I will make conversation Thai other than the occasional word people understand will give them a clue 

I am learning to let things go, but it's a slow process  

 

So fellas you guess how do I fit?

 

I can never see myself as Khon Thai, and doubt I will ever be viewed that way 

 

Perhaps an occasional acquiescent foreigner is the best I can hope for ????

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats something I’ve always hated to see....

I am guessing you are not Thai.

Erm...  well.. I nearly went for the handle ‘somchai_sukkasem237’....  but figured it may confuse some people.... 

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, 473geo said:

How about I am kind and generous to my family

Chris Rock On Self-Congratulatory Parents:

“[A person] will brag about something they’re supposed to do. Like, ‘I take care of my kids.’ You’re supposed to you dumb <hush yo mouth>

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Chris Rock On Self-Congratulatory Parents:

“[A person] will brag about something they’re supposed to do. Like, ‘I take care of my kids.’ You’re supposed to you dumb <hush yo mouth>

Your takeaway from very noteworthy post which makes a highly valid point was just that that single solitary line ????? 

 

While we are discussing ‘assimilation’ what is it with posters on this thread unable ‘assimilate’ the point and context of a whole post ????? ????

 

 

[Andre0720]

7 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

I wonder why that is.

Well, just go visit Bangkok hospital here in Phuket.

You enter into a different world, that you never thought existed here.

Then you will understand why foreigners will not want to assimilate here, at least I would think so.

 

At Bangkok hospital:

Everything is clean, inside and outside.

No plastic, no papers, no garbage on the ground.

There are no ash trays, and no cigarette butts on the ground, none.

The people working there behave like people who went to school, college and Universities.

People greet you, people acknowledge your presence.

 

If Thailand was like that, if the plebeians in Thailand were like that, well then perhaps...

 

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your takeaway from very noteworthy post which makes a highly valid point was just that that single solitary line ????? 

Yes.

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

Well, just go visit Bangkok hospital here in Phuket.

You enter into a different world, that you never thought existed here.

Then you will understand why foreigners will not want to assimilate here, at least I would think so.

 

At Bangkok hospital:

Everything is clean, inside and outside.

No plastic, no papers, no garbage on the ground.

There are no ash trays, and no cigarette butts on the ground, none.

The people working there behave like people who went to school, college and Universities.

People greet you, people acknowledge your presence.

 

If Thailand was like that, if the plebeians in Thailand were like that, well then perhaps...

 

Then I guess Singapore is the place to go?

[Skipalongcassidy]

8 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Assimilation to me means not rubbing up anyone the wrong way....it's their culture so go with the flow.

A cop out for either not giving a shxx or an excuse for others to take advantage of you... confrontation  is not a bad thing.

[473geo]

26 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Chris Rock On Self-Congratulatory Parents:

“[A person] will brag about something they’re supposed to do. Like, ‘I take care of my kids.’ You’re supposed to you dumb <hush yo mouth>

Actually not bragging just painting the full picture of the situation but you are welcome to post what you perceive to be somebody elses view of my actions 

[steven100]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Many foreigners I know even refuse to wai.

and I am thinking thinking to change my good ways similar.   I hold doors open,  I help folks,  I carry packs to bikes,  I thank etc ....     and not even a sorry or apology.     They are inconsiderate a_rsholes imo.   but thats just me. 

 

let me give you an example ...   they are uneducated idiots. 

My friend goes to a restaurant with his gf  (  he just told me this 1 hour ago )  he orders Ka Pow moo Kop KAI DOW ....   the thai gf orders and the guy is from Myanmar,  he is the cleaner of the shop but he's now the chef ....  LOL

7-11 the same ...  they don't give a rates <deleted> if you never come back.

He stuffs the order up and they get nothing like what they ordered.

But TIT .....  apology is not part of their vocabulary.

They are idiots ... period 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I don’t understand this mentality from anyone, particularly someone who usually presents an intelligent argument. 

 

Imagine being in the UK and putting your handout when a colleague or someone you know walks into the room and they ignore your ‘offer of a hand-shake’ and just nod !!

 

This obviously goes back to many of the ’to wai or not to wai’ debates on this (and other) forums. I just don’t understand why some Westerners make so much effort not to make any effort - it seems highly impolite, particularly from anyone who has been here any length of time. 

 

Wai’ing is not to ‘fit in’... its simply being polite...   I don’t know why some people over think this so much. 

 

... Do you sneer inwardly when you see a Thai or south east Asian shake someones hand ?

The idea that Thai’s would sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner Wai is utterly ridiculous... 

 

Thai’s may be bemused when they see an elderly Westerner getting the protocol upside down and Wai’ing children first or Wai’ing the restaurant staff first etc...  but that’s kind of light hearted...  

 

Of course, be true to yourself... but doesn’t that also mean being polite to others ?

 

It does sometimes seem that some ‘Westerners’ here are in a constant phase of protest against adopting some cultural mannerisms and norms... it strikes me as somewhat odd.

.. I’m reluctant to use the term ’superiority complex’, however, the discussions sometimes give off that impression. 

 

 

 

I am polite to others, that is the way I was brought up to be. Although some posters on ASEAN do make that quite difficult at times.

 

Without knowing the social status of Thais, and whether I should be wai-ing first or second, it's simpler to not do it. Life is complicated enough without such trivia. I am not interested in social status anyway. I have been with some very humble and poor people, and rubbed shoulders with very rich and powerful people. At the end of the day, everyone has to sit on a toilet.

 

I have made the effort to learn the Thai language, which I regard as more important. Is there anything more ridiculous than a farang who does not want to learn Thai, offering a wai to Thais?

 

I shake hands in my country of origin. Thais are not used to doing that, every handshake I have had from a Thai here is like gripping overcooked spaghetti.

 

I am not protesting about adopting cultural mannerisms, I simply don't regard them as significant to me. I adopt the parts of a culture I find useful.

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Actually not bragging just painting the full picture of the situation but you are welcome to post what you perceive to be somebody elses view of my actions 

You asked 'So fellas you guess how do I fit?' and I don't see how taking care of and being kind and generous to your family means that you fit in or don't fit in.

[Andre0720]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I don’t understand this mentality from anyone, particularly someone who usually presents an intelligent argument. 

 

Imagine being in the UK and putting your handout when a colleague or someone you know walks into the room and they ignore your ‘offer of a hand-shake’ and just nod !!

 

This obviously goes back to many of the ’to wai or not to wai’ debates on this (and other) forums. I just don’t understand why some Westerners make so much effort not to make any effort - it seems highly impolite, particularly from anyone who has been here any length of time. 

 

Wai’ing is not to ‘fit in’... its simply being polite...   I don’t know why some people over think this so much. 

 

... Do you sneer inwardly when you see a Thai or south east Asian shake someones hand ?

The idea that Thai’s would sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner Wai is utterly ridiculous... 

 

Thai’s may be bemused when they see an elderly Westerner getting the protocol upside down and Wai’ing children first or Wai’ing the restaurant staff first etc...  but that’s kind of light hearted...  

 

Of course, be true to yourself... but doesn’t that also mean being polite to others ?

 

It does sometimes seem that some ‘Westerners’ here are in a constant phase of protest against adopting some cultural mannerisms and norms... it strikes me as somewhat odd.

.. I’m reluctant to use the term ’superiority complex’, however, the discussions sometimes give off that impression. 

 

 

 

A handshake is something that you learn as an adult, and you use it to show collegiality when meeting people. So it is not something imposed in our young age,

In addition there are three main cognitive learning styles: visual, auditory, and kinesthetic. Kinesthetic people do not even like handshakes, better try to understand the other person before giving a handshake.

Regarding the 'Wai', it is something imposed by adults upon children, and as I see it, to show how children is somewhat considered as inferior to adults, and then later on, to show that younger people are inferior to adults, or person in a position of authority.

Nothing good in there.

Not even a way to determine the true feelings of the person initiating the Wai, as there is no sound, no intonation, which carries more meaning than two hands lifted towards someone's face.

It is mechanical, devoid of true feelings.

But it is part of the culture here.

Thankfully, not reciprocating a Wai to a Thai person does not seem to be considered an affront, as would not responding to the gesture of a handshake.

[Andre0720]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Then I guess Singapore is the place to go?

Send me a postcard....

[Non Immigrant]

8 minutes ago, steven100 said:

and I am thinking thinking to change my good ways similar.   I hold doors open,  I help folks,  I carry packs to bikes,  I thank etc ....     and not even a sorry or apology.     They are inconsiderate a_rsholes imo.   but thats just me. 

 

let me give you an example ...   they are uneducated idiots. 

My friend goes to a restaurant with his gf  (  he just told me this 1 hour ago )  he orders Ka Pow moo Kop KAI DOW ....   the thai gf orders and the guy is from Myanmar,  he is the cleaner of the shop but he's now the chef ....  LOL

7-11 the same ...  they don't give a rates <deleted> if you never come back.

He stuffs the order up and they get nothing like what they ordered.

But TIT .....  apology is not part of their vocabulary.

They are idiots ... period 

Well, I can agree that most of the highest grade A..holes I have encountered have been here.

 

It is because they know they won't be confronted, as it's not the Thai way.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Wrong. They appreciate the effort.

You know this how? Ah, I see. You polled a statistically significant sample size of Thais, and they all told you they appreciate the effort. And you believed them, because Thais are always truthful, and never tell an interlocutor what they think said person wants to hear.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

Thankfully, not reciprocating a Wai to a Thai person does not seem to be considered an affront, as would not responding to the gesture of a handshake.

Agree. Refusing to shake someone's hand is either extremely rude, or an indication of not wanting to have anything to do with the person.

I don't think Thais get upset when I don't wai, they probably just think farang.

[steven100]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thais are always truthful

now I know you are delusional and a lunatic ...  haha ....    your statement is comical 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You know this how? Ah, I see. You polled a statistically significant sample size of Thais, and they all told you they appreciate the effort. And you believed them, because Thais are always truthful, and never tell an interlocutor what they think said person wants to hear.

You’ve made an illogical assumption that they don’t appreciate the effort. 

 

Its human nature in any culture for people to appreciate efforts to be respectful. It is not an astronomical leap of logic to recognise that Thai’s also appreciate it when we are polite with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

now I know you are delusional and a lunatic ...  haha ....    your statement is comical 

Likewise, I know you have impaired cognition, unable to recognize sarcasm.

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Likewise, I know you have impaired cognition, unable to recognize sarcasm.

If you think all Thais are honest you are insane.       imo

but if your just joking and being sarcastic then I didn't pick that up. sorry.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

You’ve made an illogical assumption that they don’t appreciate the effort. 

 

Its human nature in any culture for people to appreciate efforts to be respectful. It is not an astronomical leap of logic to recognise that Thai’s also appreciate it when we are polite with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am making no assumptions, just applying a reductio ad absurdum to a somewhat fatuous post.

 

There are more ways to be polite with Thais than a wai, and I don't see why I should adopt the practice just because you say so.