Democrats maintain control of U.S. Senate, NBC News projects, defeating many Trump-backed Republicans

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

• The "red tsunami" Republicans were hoping for didn't happen at the midterm elections.
• Advocates and lawmakers are crediting youth voter turnout that helped deliver wins for Democrats.
• Student-loan forgiveness was a major policy that had support from the majority of young voters.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-is-at-risk-it-may-have-helped-stop-a-red-tsunami-as-gen-z-flocked-to-the-polls-to-save-their-relief/ar-AA13VnEN

It "may" well have been but we know for certain that climate change and abortion were major factors which influenced the young vote. It's notable because the young are typically lazy voters but not recently so something is really motivating them. It seems to be a stretch to attribute the student loans issue entirely or mainly to such a profound reversal of historical trend in mid term elections. There weren't that many students eligible, especially current students. The policy even peed off a lot of students who didn't qualify.

Edited November 13, 2022 by ozimoron

[ripstanley]

From and outsider my opinion would be Trump and the supreme court decision re Roe.

[ThailandRyan]

Looks like the Republicans are getting ready to move on without the orange man

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/13/trump-republicans-rivals-2024/

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It "may" well have been but we know for certain that climate change and abortion were major factors which influenced the young vote. It's notable because the young are typically lazy voters but not recently so something is really motivating them. It seems to be a stretch to attribute the student loans issue entirely or mainly to such a profound reversal of historical trend in mid term elections. There weren't that many students eligible, especially current students.

I never said it was mainly the loan forgiveness, never. It's the professional posters on here who turn things around. 

 

Abortion without a doubt was a large part. But loan forgiveness did play a part. 

[johnnybangkok]

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I never said it was mainly the loan forgiveness, never. It's the professional posters on here who turn things around. 

 

Abortion without a doubt was a large part. But loan forgiveness did play a part. 

Would the 'professional posters on here' be those guys with the facts or is just those guys with the fancy words?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Would the 'professional posters on here' be those guys with the facts or is just those guys with the fancy words?

Control of the House is still up for grabs several days after Election Day — defying historical trends and the pressure of high inflation and President Joe Biden’s unpopularity that threatened the Democratic majority with big losses.

 

Republicans’ difficulty flipping key swing districts across the country can be explained in part by American politics’ increasing polarization along educational lines, as well as the party’s failure to make inroads in districts populated by groups other than non-college-educated white voters.

 

The last few election cycles have been marked by an increasing divergence in outcomes based on education levels, with Democrats making serious gains with college-educated voters while Republicans win far greater shares of non-college educated white voters.

 

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2022/midterm-election-house-districts-by-education/

[ozimoron]

Republican Larry Hogan just said on CNN that he blames Trump for the loss of the senate by turning off swing voters.

[ozimoron]

Did I just hear a gun shot?

 

Just days after Republicans won supermajorities in the Florida Legislature, the state Senate is considering stricter abortion limits during the upcoming legislative session.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/11/incoming-senate-leader-supports-12-week-abortion-ban-while-house-stays-quiet-00066549

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

• The "red tsunami" Republicans were hoping for didn't happen at the midterm elections.
• Advocates and lawmakers are crediting youth voter turnout that helped deliver wins for Democrats.
• Student-loan forgiveness was a major policy that had support from the majority of young voters.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-is-at-risk-it-may-have-helped-stop-a-red-tsunami-as-gen-z-flocked-to-the-polls-to-save-their-relief/ar-AA13VnEN

Last midterms 2018 there was an even higher young people vote and no talk of student loans. This year not one single student has gained any benifit from student loans as they are still on hold. The exit polls proved what they turned out for as already demonstrated, not your 10k holiday bribe insinuation.

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I think many factors played a part and one of them might have been concern about right wing equivocation about supplying arms to Ukraine.

IMO the current right-wing sentiment in US Congress toward diminishing support for Ukraine is borne of the influence of Team Putin.  Even if DT's submission to Vlad were to vanish it wouldn't matter, the link between Fox News and RT says it all.  Remember "Moscow Mitch" making deals with the Russian oligarchs? 

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

8 hours ago, Non Immigrant said:

Why do you support the democrats?

Big concern at this election was about democracy rather than democrats - that people had become irredeemably polarised, and candidates who simply lied about election fraud would be rewarded. That Republicans, with MAGA candidates confident and gaining further ascendency within the party, would win control of the house AND senate, and this might lead to crazy retribution against democrats and more power across the country to those who do not support fair elections. 

I think Democrats are more likely to stand up to Putin, do something about climate change, be fairer on equity issues such as fighting for cheaper medicines, healthcare and a better outcome for workers.  Fairer overall.

I could be more accepting of Republicans, Trump MAGA issues aside, if I considered them sincere and fair. I like the idea of low taxes and free enterprise. They talk of fairness in trickle down economics, but in reality I think they want too low taxes and tax breaks for the wealthy, and a decimated IRS. They talk about chaos in immigration but love the cheap labour force, and there are a whole range of what I consider inconsistencies on guns, abortion rights, etc. I think people forget how rich America is and that taxes and regulations can be fair without being overbearing and stymying free enterprise. 

I certainly don't consider Democrats ideal but they are the best of the two parties and, not being an American, best for the world. 

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, candide said:

Right. The GOP thought it would bank on stressing traditional conservative values and policies: anti-abortion, anti-green, anti-woke, anti-LGBT, pro-gun, pro-religion, etc....

They forgot that, by definition, young people are often less conservative than older ones.  It's not their "world". The GOP emphasis on values actually gave causes for young people to get interested in politics again

Nice points however I suspect the's a double 'fators' situation;

1.. As said above "The GOP thought it would bank on stressing traditional conservative values and policies: anti-abortion, anti-green, anti-woke, anti-LGBT, pro-gun, pro-religion, etc....

 

.... but at the same time

2. Support for mr. magic trump who would magically change everything. But in reality his ego has been shot to pieces / killed and his severe selfishness ..me. me..me.. more exposed.

 

.... but

Just wondering when his poor naive MAGA followers (who believed he was magic and would make their lives much better) will relize they have been fleeced for hundreds of millions to support the magic boys ideas/causes (but in reality seems to be well established that 90% of that money went into his pockets).

 

Is he bankrupt, again? 

and, when will he go to jail?

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by scorecard

[ozimoron]

I think Republicans voters had trouble reconciling Trumps legal problems, particularly tax fraud, with his "drain the swamp" claims. The law and order message became diluted.

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I never said it was mainly the loan forgiveness, never. It's the professional posters on here who turn things around. 

 

Abortion without a doubt was a large part. But loan forgiveness did play a part. 

I don't think exit polls showed any significant evidence to support your assertion.

[ozimoron]

Republicans talked about the right iussues but failed to produce a plan how they were going to tackle those issues. Their shtick was all complaints and jargon words like "not surrendering to wokeness". Nobody understands what that actually means and even less how it benefits them. And accusing Dems of being soft on crime didn't pass the credibility test, unless you're in favour of building walled communities and keeping the great unwashed out at gunpoint. Think "1984".

Edited November 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[Non Immigrant]

5 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Big concern at this election was about democracy rather than democrats - that people had become irredeemably polarised, and candidates who simply lied about election fraud would be rewarded. That Republicans, with MAGA candidates confident and gaining further ascendency within the party, would win control of the house AND senate, and this might lead to crazy retribution against democrats and more power across the country to those who do not support fair elections. 

I think Democrats are more likely to stand up to Putin, do something about climate change, be fairer on equity issues such as fighting for cheaper medicines, healthcare and a better outcome for workers.  Fairer overall.

I could be more accepting of Republicans, Trump MAGA issues aside, if I considered them sincere and fair. I like the idea of low taxes and free enterprise. They talk of fairness in trickle down economics, but in reality I think they want too low taxes and tax breaks for the wealthy, and a decimated IRS. They talk about chaos in immigration but love the cheap labour force, and there are a whole range of what I consider inconsistencies on guns, abortion rights, etc. I think people forget how rich America is and that taxes and regulations can be fair without being overbearing and stymying free enterprise. 

I certainly don't consider Democrats ideal but they are the best of the two parties and, not being an American, best for the world. 

Pretty much the only democrat principle I agree with really is the healthcare point.

 

Though, I ain't an American so their healthcare doesn't affect, nor do a lot of other issues.

 

However American business does affect me and I certainly want their economy to remain strong.

 

Also, haven't the democrats turned into far left extremists? Lol

[Fat is a type of crazy]

23 minutes ago, Non Immigrant said:

Pretty much the only democrat principle I agree with really is the healthcare point.

 

Though, I ain't an American so their healthcare doesn't affect, nor do a lot of other issues.

 

However American business does affect me and I certainly want their economy to remain strong.

 

Also, haven't the democrats turned into far left extremists? Lol

Joe isn't extreme. The Democrats  have some younger and more progressive types to push the envelope a bit. Doesn't mean they control things. Some new ideas are good ideas. 

I'm in Australia and many democrat policies are to the right of centre compared to us and probably many countries in Europe. 

Some Democrat policies are a bit too lefty for me and could be improved, but a lot of course is a caricature by the right, e.g. on Fox, and it isn't the reality. Do you see Joe shutting down funding for police, or teaching 5 year olds about sexual options, or that there should be totally open borders etc. No. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[EVENKEEL]

51 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't think exit polls showed any significant evidence to support your assertion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-is-at-risk-it-may-have-helped-stop-a-red-tsunami-as-gen-z-flocked-to-the-polls-to-save-their-relief/ar-AA13VnEN

 

Terribly naive  to think otherwise. The future of the loan forgiveness scheme is for another time.

[Will B Good]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The last few election cycles have been marked by an increasing divergence in outcomes based on education levels, with Democrats making serious gains with college-educated voters while Republicans win far greater shares of non-college educated white voters.

Very politely phrased....555 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-is-at-risk-it-may-have-helped-stop-a-red-tsunami-as-gen-z-flocked-to-the-polls-to-save-their-relief/ar-AA13VnEN

 

Terribly naive  to think otherwise. The future of the loan forgiveness scheme is for another time.

The article says that it was a major policy which had the support of the young. It does not say it was a driver in youth turnout. Abortion and the supreme court were demonstrably more significant. Youth turnout was higher in 2018 without loan forgiveness on the ticket. It was down a little this year but remains the second highest in 30 years. MAGA revulsion is the main driving factor in my opinion. Rejection of election denying candidates at all levels shows that.

 

Black and Latino Youth Give Democrats Strongest Support

https://circle.tufts.edu/2022-election-center

 

This demographic definitely didn't have a high rate of student loans.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Very politely phrased....555 

Not my words, it was a quote.

[Eric Loh]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Looks like the Republicans are getting ready to move on without the orange man

 

I am holding my breathe on whether Republicans will have the fortitude to abandon the 3 times loser Trump. I remember those cowards who blame Trump for the attacked on the Capitol and then subsequently folded into the embrace of Trump. Cowards like Kevin McCarthy, Lindsey Graham and few others who condemned harshly and later say that the attack were legitimate political discourse. So far, the push back by Republicans have been luke warm and DeSantis has not even rebut directly to Trump's ugly accusation on him. They are still scared of Trump and his fanatical base. Will have to see how the GOP will ostracize Trump in involving in the party politics. Tough but only sensible pathway if they have any hope for 2024. 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-is-at-risk-it-may-have-helped-stop-a-red-tsunami-as-gen-z-flocked-to-the-polls-to-save-their-relief/ar-AA13VnEN

 

Terribly naive  to think otherwise. The future of the loan forgiveness scheme is for another time.

As pointed out, exit polls didn't detect it. So all we have from you and fellow travelers are suppositions that align with your political biases.

[bendejo]

I never liked the Dems, but I dislike them as I would an _sshole relative.

 

To me the GOP/conservatives are self-serving hypocrites hiding behind christian and patriotic facades.  Now in the Citizen's United era they are literally hogs at the trough.  All these bs issues they come up with, like transgender kids, serves to distract from the real problems, like school shootings and money in politics.  Every issue brought forward by the GOP in Congress is in service to their sponsors.

And of course there are some Congressional Dems cut from the same stuff.  In early 2013 Bernie was asked about who in Congress takes money:  he said all Republicans (repeated it as "awl" so people in NYC could understand ???? ) and some Dems.  When pressed for how many Dems he mumbled what sounded like 40 percent.  

So, I'm not a Democrat but I vehemently declare I am not now and have never been a Republican.  The only time I even considered voting that way was when it looked like 2008 would be Hillary v. McCain.  I vote Dem to keep the Republicans out.  Third party is the turd in the punchbowl for US presidential elections.

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, bendejo said:

 Third party is the turd in the punchbowl for US presidential elections.

Excuse the clip but I wanted to cut to the afterthought.

 

It will always be thus as long as you have a first past the post election system. This is why Georgia has a run off law and why Australia has a preferential voting system. This is the only true way to measure the public will.

[ozimoron]

A single statistic has guided my politics ever since I left school. The massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich over those decades. It's not peculiar to America either.

 

https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/

 

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I think Republicans voters had trouble reconciling Trumps legal problems, particularly tax fraud, with his "drain the swamp" claims. The law and order message became diluted.

INteresting point. 

 

On the one hand he was claiming he would clean up politics etc., (just BS talk, nothing more) and on the other hand no hesitation to break every law in the book* and refuse to cooperate in well established legal processes, and at the same time claiming many times that he was the president of law and order. (*Including the typical things he would claim as the swamp that needed cleaning up.)

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A single statistic has guided my politics ever since I left school. The massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich over those decades. It's not peculiar to America either.

 

https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/

 

 

For decades folks have claimed 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer' but nothing done.

 

If there was ever a good reason for violence (and there is no good for violence/war), it would be action to redress this.

 

Just recently there seems to be more solid/specific action re climate change whereas only 12 months ago climate change was discussed but no action.

 

Could it be that the time is coming where discussion will actually be action (but hopefully not violence) to demand some redress regarding sharing the wealth and paying for the damage done through rampant capitalism (the rich get richer and the poor get poorer).

 

I hope so. 

 

 

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

INteresting point. 

 

On the one hand he was claiming he would clean up politics etc., (just BS talk, nothing more) and on the other hand no hesitation to break every law in the book* and refuse to cooperate in well established legal processes, and at the same time claiming many times that he was the president of law and order. (*Including the typical things he would claim as the swamp that needed cleaning up.)

I should also have mentioned the number of his cronies who have been indicted by the deep state. I think it's over a dozen or so close associates. Far more than for any president in history.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I should also have mentioned the number of his cronies who have been indicted by the deep state. I think it's over a dozen or so close associates. Far more than for any president in history.

Good point, then there's the pardoning of his valuable cronies (valuable to him) most of whom are cheats and liars and corrupt as hell.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by scorecard