The UK budget this week

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

 

Of course it's something Sunak put in place when when he was Chancellor, and yes you're right it's a stealth rise, I think Hunt will increase the length of the freeze meaning that many more will be dragged into the higher rate over the years, maybe even you.

According to Laura Kuenssberg at the BBC, it is rumoured that personal allowance and higher rate threshold freezes could last until 2028:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63599465

 

As regards scrapping the personal allowance for expats, this was the subject of a consultation exercise following the 2014 Budget, as a result of which this proposal was, thankfully for us, booted into the long grass on that particular occasion:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

 

So while I would have thought it highly unlikely that the scrapping of the personal allowance for UK tax non-residents from the get-go will be announced as part of Thursday's Autumn Statement, I strongly suspect that we could find ourselves ruling out at our peril the possibility of Jeremy Hunt using this opportunity, just as George Osborn did in 2014, to launch a further consultation exercise on this doomsday scenario.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by OJAS

[TorquayFan]

Re. this - "George Osborne was about to introduce it several years ago, but it was stopped by the EU" - thanks OJAS for providing a link.

 

Whilst all things are possible - myself I'd be staggered if such a brazen injustice was put forward again. Relax - ain't gonna happen.  The Personal Allowance will be maintained for Expats. 100%

 

AIMHO

Edited November 14, 2022 by TorquayFan

[Andycoops]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

There are an estimated 5.5m Brits abroad so - assuming that they are all have £12,500 income - abolishing the tax-free allowance would raise +/-£13.75 billion. Hardly a trivial sum so it's a valid concern.

 

However, imo the easier target are the non-doms. Abolishing their status - assuming that they don't all leave - would raise +/-£18 billion and very few of the electorate would have much sympathy for them.

Only half a million have a frozen state pension living abroad as non UK residents, myself included.

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

I'll stand by this - "IMHO there is ABSOLUTELY no chance of that happening. NONE AT ALL." I promise to humbly apologise if I am wrong . . .

 

Just musing about those on a state OAP only - I mean how much is that ? Say GBP 500 a month ? GBP 6,000p.a.

 

Paying 20% on that would leave GBP 4,800p.a. THAT would be unbelievably cruel to those also already outside the UK benefit/healthcare system by virtue of being abroad. Many would go home and cost the UK far more than this paltry saving.

 

IMO this alarming proposition, just ain't gonna happen !

Full UK State Pension is approx. £9,339,20 pa (£179.60 pw) so this would cost somebody living on that £1867.84 pa (£35.92 pw). 

 

Maybe if they did do this, it will re-open the debate around frozen pensions & just maybe some guys might even be better off.

 

My money is on them not doing it but I only get income on rental property & from dividends so it's easy(ish) for me to bail on the UK (I can't be the only one so another reason why I don't think they'll do it) if they do. 

 

And If they do well I'll just make myself UK-Resident for Tax purposes once my pensions kick in & spend 16 days* a year there (46 in year one)... I quite like the UK in May ???? 

 

*I'm greatly simplifying what it takes to return to being UK-Resident for tax purposes but it's certainly possible to work things out so you spend part of the year there, maybe even get your pension uplifts & the rest living where you want to live. 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mike Teavee
Edit to fix the numbers - Bad Maths!!!

[TorquayFan]

Here's a challenge. Has anyone seen in the Media, any suggestion at all, that the Personal Allowance for Expats, is being discussed at all or is about to be abolished ?

 

If not, as this thread will be worrying some People quite a lot, why not leave too much further discussion, in the lack of some clear indication that this is being discussed, until Thursday, when we will know?

 

Some will be 'bricking it' as they say - it IS an alarming prospect.

 

Links please, ATB

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by TorquayFan

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Looks like Conservatives are worse than labour for tax these days

That would sure make a change, as a UK working class guy I have never voted Labour in my life. They have more liars and hypocrites than all the other political parties put together, and that also includes the Tories. They have never been the party of the working class in my adult lifetime.

[Nong Khai Man]

17 hours ago, roo860 said:

Didn't even know there was a tax allowance for expats.

There Isn't......Is There ??

[Nong Khai Man]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

If true that will effect a lot of Brits who rely on a govt pension only which is low anyway and will get lower

I Very much DOUBT If Mine could be ANY Lower....Only Just Surviving on what I Get Now.....& It's NOT Even Five Figures per Annum....

[Nong Khai Man]

57 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Only half a million have a frozen state pension living abroad as non UK residents, myself included.

And Me Too !!

[salavan]

George Osborne wanted to introduce that but it was kicked into the long grass

[chang50]

This proposed change that started as a rumour has not even been remotely hinted at anywhere else but this forum,if anyone has a link to a UK media source please post it because if there is any truth to it thousands of lives British and foreign will be devastated.Although I think it is probably an unfounded rumour with this government anything is possible.

[Mike Teavee]

21 hours ago, roo860 said:

Didn't even know there was a tax allowance for expats.

 

4 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said:

There Isn't......Is There ??

There are a few tax breaks for people who are Non-UK Resident for Tax Purposes... 

1. Every British citizen (& people who have ever worked for the government or are citizens/residents of countries like Australia that have Duplicate Taxation Agreements with the UK) are entitled to a Personal Tax Allowance of £12,570 pa
2. Any (Non-Property) Assets bought since you became non-resident or have held for at least 5 years are not subject to Capital Gains Tax should you sell & make more than £12,300 in profit
3. The only tax you should pay on dividends is the Withholding Tax so if your income should take you into a higher tax bracket (> £50,270) you don't need to pay any more tax

There are also some things you'll (technically) lose... 

1. Your pension will be frozen as at the later date of when you left the UK or when you start claiming - NB I'm talking about Thailand specifically here, if you were to move to a country that has reciprocal social security agreements (e.g. Philippines) you will continue to get annual increases. 
2. You cannot open a new or add funds to an existing ISA
3. You cannot renew your driving license (NB technically your license is void anyway as by law it has to show your current address & this has to be a UK address). 

As somebody who is > 10 years away from being able to claim his state pension it makes sense to me to be registered as non-UK resident for tax purposes but other guys use relatives/friends addresses to get around all of these negative points.

 

 

 

 

   

[Kalasin Jo]

On 11/13/2022 at 5:38 PM, roo860 said:

Didn't even know there was a tax allowance for expats.

I think he means the the first tranche of income known as the personal allowance. I've heard this rumour before. It would really hit expat pensioners on already low incomes and frozen pensions.  The basic UK state pension gross is not enough to meet Thai immigration financial requirements even on a marriage extension, nowhere near for retirement. An IO I explained this to was most surprised. As with most Thais he thought we all are rich!

[Harveyboy]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:31 AM, scubascuba3 said:

If true that will effect a lot of Brits who rely on a govt pension only which is low anyway and will get lower

yep screw the pensioners again we only contributed for 50 years of our working lives .

Then again they need to money to support the lazy scroungers in the UK ..just sayin

[puchooay]

I would doubt there are many expats living solely on a state pension.

 

Most I have met have been living financially happy in Thailand since long before their 65/66th birthdays.

[Harveyboy]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

I would doubt there are many expats living solely on a state pension.

 

Most I have met have been living financially happy in Thailand since long before their 65/66th birthdays.

I know a few who have a few quid put away ..bit many also that live month to month on the UK pension exactly as they would back in Britain..not all X pat's have cash eh !!

[chang50]

So can we take it this rumour was unfounded?

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, chang50 said:

So can we take it this rumour was unfounded?

Yes unfounded, I didn't hear it anywhere else. A bit of scaremongering entertainment 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes unfounded, I didn't hear it anywhere else. A bit of scaremongering entertainment 

And a 10.1% state pension rise announced for April.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

And a 10.1% state pension rise announced for April.

A bit of vote buying that will not be paid to most retired Brits in Thailand.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A bit of vote buying that will not be paid to most retired Brits in Thailand.

 

 

No idea of actual numbers but I get a sense that most guys on here are still registered at a UK address so will get the increase,

 

Of course I’m registered as living in Thailand & will still get the full increase… but that’s only because I’m special (ok so I can’t claim my UK State Pension yet)

 

Must be a real kick in the nuts for the guys who do follow the rules & declare themselves as Non-UK resident but I will have no regrets registering as Non-UK resident when it comes to claiming mine.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Mike Teavee
Typos

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A bit of vote buying that will not be paid to most retired Brits in Thailand.

10% won't buy my vote for the Tories ........ I'd need 100% more!

[puchooay]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:52 AM, Harveyboy said:

I know a few who have a few quid put away ..bit many also that live month to month on the UK pension exactly as they would back in Britain..not all X pat's have cash eh !!

I was referring to private pensions. Most expats I know have one. Usually one that matured when they were mid to late 50s.

Edited November 18, 2022 by puchooay

[roo860]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A bit of vote buying that will not be paid to most retired Brits in Thailand.

 

 

The ones that have an address in the UK, the majority of the ones I've met still do, wether it be family or friends.

[Mike Teavee]

16 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I was referring to private pensions. Most expats I know have one. Usually one that matured when they were mid to late 50s.

I don't know exact statistics but in 2021 only 79% of Brits had a private pension (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/workplacepensions/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearningspensiontables/2021provisionaland2020finalresults) & this after the Pension Act of 2008 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/30/contents) that forced most employers to enroll their staff in a private pension so I would guess the number of pensioners who didn't already have a private pension at that time have one that's not paying very much.

 

 

Pensions cannot generally be accessed until you're 55 and then you'll be taking a much reduced pension. 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[puchooay]

22 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I don't know exact statistics but in 2021 only 79% of Brits had a private pension (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/workplacepensions/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearningspensiontables/2021provisionaland2020finalresults) & this after the Pension Act of 2008 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/30/contents) that forced most employers to enroll their staff in a private pension so I would guess the number of pensioners who didn't already have a private pension at that time have one that's not paying very much.

 

 

Pensions cannot generally be accessed until you're 55 and then you'll be taking a much reduced pension. 

 

Not employment pensions. Private pensions from one's own investments.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Pensions cannot generally be accessed until you're 55 and then you'll be taking a much reduced pension. 

 

That's the great thing about SIPPs, you can keep them invested and take drawdown from 55 if you want

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

No idea of actual numbers but I get a sense that most guys on here are still registered at a UK address so will get the increase,

 

Of course I’m registered as living in Thailand & will still get the full increase… but that’s only because I’m special (ok so I can’t claim my UK State Pension yet)

 

Must be a real kick in the nuts for the guys who do follow the rules & declare themselves as Non-UK resident but I will have no regrets registering as Non-UK resident when it comes to claiming mine.

 

If you have enough to live on frozen isn't that bad, retiring at 65 is a kick in the nuts how long do you know what life you've got left.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

If you have enough to live on frozen isn't that bad, retiring at 65 is a kick in the nuts how long do you know what life you've got left.

Stick the two ends of this post together and a frozen pension gets awfully bad as the years go by.

 

At 10% inflation the value of your pension halves in 7 years.

 

At 7% inflation it halves in 10 years.

 

Live 25 years past retirement and even 3% inflation is going to dramatically impact your buying power.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Stick the two ends of this post together and a frozen pension gets awfully bad as the years go by.

 

At 10% inflation the value of your pension halves in 7 years.

 

At 7% inflation it halves in 10 years.

 

Live 25 years past retirement and even 3% inflation is going to dramatically impact your buying power.

 

 

That's why you need a private pension as well