Thailand going cashless. Are you for or against it?

[cmsally]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Never claimed anything would be for my own good or indicated so.

 

Just pointing out the hyperbolic hysterical claims made by another poster.

Difficult to discuss unless you point out what the actual claims were. So far it seems to be the claim that a cashless society would make us like China.  In so far as we might have a health pass, digital ID and CBDC that would make us pretty much the same as the Chinese model but not exactly like China as a country.

[pgrahmm]

I experienced my first need for this yesterday....I went to my local bakery store to pick up some supplies....About 300B....Gave him a 1000B = no can do....I looked around outside - no place to break the bill....Bangkok bank Visa = no go.....

My daughter used her phone bank app to make the purchase....I could've too = didn't think of it.... I've never tried..

Even though I'm not supportive of the cashless concept, it's an option  I'll have to get adept at....

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

I experienced my first need for this yesterday....I went to my local bakery store to pick up some supplies....About 300B....Gave him a 1000B = no can do....I looked around outside - no place to break the bill....Bangkok bank Visa = no go.....

My daughter used her phone bank app to make the purchase....I could've too = didn't think of it.... I've never tried..

Even though I'm not supportive of the cashless concept, it's an option  I'll have to get adept at....

It appears they did not have enough change to break the 1k note rather than not accepting cash.  Always best to have lower bills for such an issue but most times if you can not pay any other way they will find someone to borrow cash from in my experience (if they don't actually have in bottom drawer).

[connda]

Btw, here is one overlooked aspect of Thai Buddhist society:  papow (I may have the word wrong) and gratin.  These are annual events that are widely attended by most Thai villagers and even metropolitan and cosmopolitan Thais.  Gratin happens after the annual Rain Retreats.  And it is a major festival for each individual temple and a time where the temple generates a majority of their yearly operating income
In villages it's a form of given with the expectation that the giver will receive a karmatic reward greater than the sum given.
For the metropolitan and cosmopolitan crowds it an opportunity to display status by displaying wealth through giving. 

Below are some examples of the giving at our own small village temple (about 250 people in our village)
Money Trees Are An Iconic Feature Of Buddhist Giving (Dana) and I must admit that the creative artistic nature is very beautiful as well as the really joyful ceremonies.

Our small temple generated over 300,000 THB on this one day.  There was also a 'papow' organized by my wife and some of her friends before the Gratin ceremony that took in another 10,000+ THB.

There are well over 40,000 Buddhist temples in Thailand and they all celebrate these "Dana" ceremonies.  Money is given like this all of the time especially during the Rain Retreats, after the Rain Retreats, during all Buddhist holidays, often on the date of the passing away of a relative (we do this annually for my wife's son and my own daughter who both passed away as children -- it's considered a way of passing on good karma to the deceased), and just at any given time when a Thai person or family feels the need to show generosity. 
 

Edited November 30, 2022 by connda

[Bluespunk]

37 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Difficult to discuss unless you point out what the actual claims were. So far it seems to be the claim that a cashless society would make us like China.  In so far as we might have a health pass, digital ID and CBDC that would make us pretty much the same as the Chinese model but not exactly like China as a country.

Not difficult at all, read their posts quoting me.

[connda]

Just now, connda said:

Btw, here is one overlooked aspect of Thai Buddhist society:  papow (I may have the word wrong) and gratin.  These are annual events that are widely attended by most Thai villagers and even metropolitan and cosmopolitan Thais.  Gratin happens after the annual Rain Retreats.  And it is a major festival for each individual temple and a time where the temple generation a majority of their yearly operating income
In villages it's a form of given with the expectation that the giver will receive a karmatic reward greater than the sum given.
For the metropolitan and cosmopolitan crowds it an opportunity to display status by displaying wealth through giving. 

Below are some examples of the giving at our own small village temple (about 250 people in our village)
Money Trees Are An Iconic Feature Of Buddhist Giving (Dana) and I must admit that the creative artistic nature is very beautiful as well as the really joyful ceremonies.

Our small temple generated over 300,000 THB on this one day.  There was also a 'papow' organized by my wife and some of her friends before the Gratin ceremony that took in another 10,000+ THB.

There are well over 40,000 Buddhist temples in Thailand and they all celebrate these "Dana" ceremonies.  Money is given like this all of the time especially during the Rain Retreats, after the Rain Retreats, during all Buddhist holidays, often on the date of the passing away of a relative (we do this annually for my wife's son and my own daughter who both passed away as children -- it's considered a way of passing on good karma to the deceased), and just at any given time when a Thai person or family feels the need to show generosity. 
 

So what is my point here?  Cash money is inexorably linked to the Thai Buddhist culture.
I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but a QR-CODE on a stick isn't going to cut it.

Forcefully take cash away from Thailand and it will usher in a social upheaval of government, banking, religious and other institutions. 

[connda]

Just now, connda said:

So what is my point here?  Cash money is inexorably linked to the Thai Buddhist culture.
I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but a QR-CODE on a stick isn't going to cut it.

Forcefully take cash away from Thailand and it will usher in a social upheaval of government, banking, religious and other institutions. 

And by the way, some of these displays of "Money Trees are rather fantastic.
Here at Wat Ban Den in Northern Thailand they need cranes to erect their Money Trees.
Yep - QR Codes and CBDC aren't replacing that unless the plan is for the government, NGOs, and other organizations to simply destroy society, which by the way seems to be The World Economic Forum stated goal for all of the commoners.  Of course the destruction of religion seems to go hand in hand with their plans. 

[connda]

13 hours ago, garrya said:

The question is not what is easier to use but to go completely cashless.

Banks, internet, government etc can go bust.... Enjoy your life after that with your cashless cr.p

 

 

Here's my take (because it will happen, it's just a matter of time, at least for those of us who look back beyond a single life-time and can grasp the cyclical nature of, well, Nature.)

Do an internet search on Carrington Event and Coronal Mass Ejections.

That will end CBDC as well as a large proportion of mankind who have lost their agrarian roots and who believe the world will end if "green" electric infrastructure is not fully embraced for everything.

One good ***POP*** and it all stops and pretty much ends for generations to come as the world is tossed back into the dark ages (literally).   Oh, and those non-GMO heirloom seeds?  They'll be a currency within themselves. 

Personally, the way things are going at present? 
I think an X-30+, Earth-facing CME is just about the only thing that will 'save the Earth' from the present crop of greed-driven psychopaths who's vision for this world is serfdom for the majority of the commoners, ownership of everything that can be assigned a value by the Blackrocks and WEF crowds (and everything will be assigned a value down to the lowliest grains of sand), and of course euthanasia for the elderly, deformed, and otherwise unproductive CO2 producers.

"A Carrington Event would be better," you ask.

I think so.  It will be The Great Leveler as opposed to The Great Reset.  We go back to a past that was difficult and yet still maintained a sense of honor and independence.
Yeah, it will be Mad Max to a degree.  But it kicks the struts from underneath those who seek a 1000 year reign of technocratic globalism with themselves set at the top of the pyramid as literal gods of the earth. 

I'd rather deal with regional warlords. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by connda

[garrya]

https://www.rt.com/news/567392-irs-freezes-kanye-west-bank-accounts/

[moogradod]

9 minutes ago, connda said:

Here's my take (because it will happen, it's just a matter of time, at least for those of us who look back beyond a single life-time and can grasp the cyclical nature of, well, Nature.)

Do an internet search on Carrington Event and Coronal Mass Ejections.

That will end CBDC as well as a large proportion of mankind who have lost their agrarian roots and who believe the world will end if "green" electric infrastructure is fully embraced for everything.

One good ***POP*** and it all stops and pretty much ends for generations to come as the world is tossed back into the dark ages (literally). 

Exactly what I am saying. Does not even have to be near as the sun. A nice little cosmic event with a generation of a particle stream just aimed at the earth will be "effective" within a range of about 8 lightyears. I find this is scary, but of course it will never happen ????

[traveller101]

17 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its a lot more convenient using cards rather than cash , you can buy what you need without the chore of having to make sure that you have cash in your pocket or looking if there is an ATM close buy . 

   Like, seeing something in a shop , then walking around trying to find an ATM , then making a withdrawal and taking the cash back to the shop to buy the item and they give you change back .

   Much easier just to swipe you card there and then at the check-out, rather than the  chore of paying cash  

And much easier to overspend and find oneself in debt at the end of the month.

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

And much easier to overspend and find oneself in debt at the end of the month.

 

 

Not if you have a modicum of discipline...............or more than enough not to worry about it.

[cmsally]

With less cash used , people lose the ability to count. Thais were generally not good with mental arithmetic anyway but it has got much worse! People will simply not be able to budget.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

And much easier to overspend and find oneself in debt at the end of the month.

How do you get into debt with a Debit Card ?...  PromptPay ?... LinePay ? TrueMoney ????

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.

Bottom line - USE CASH!

Let's keep our hard-earned money to ourselves instead of giving it to the banks.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.

Bottom line - USE CASH!

Let's keep our hard-earned money to ourselves instead of giving it to the banks.

 

 

You do understand, don't you,? that it doesn't actually work like that!

[traveller101]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How do you get into debt with a Debit Card ?...  PromptPay ?... LinePay ? TrueMoney ????

 

 

 

Try Credit Card - particularly the ones with not enough in their account.

Never seen anybody whose 1st cc got rejected coz over the limit - only to present another one.

[ExpatOilWorker]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

You do understand, don't you,? that it doesn't actually work like that!

OK.

This amount varies, but typical merchant fees fall between 2.5 percent and 3.5 percent.

Other merchant fees that may apply can include non-swiped transaction fees (when a credit card isn’t present and the number is keyed in), voice authorization fees, check fees, paper statement fees and more.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-american-express-isnt-universally-accepted/#:~:text=This amount varies%2C but typical,paper statement fees and more.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

OK.

This amount varies, but typical merchant fees fall between 2.5 percent and 3.5 percent.

Other merchant fees that may apply can include non-swiped transaction fees (when a credit card isn’t present and the number is keyed in), voice authorization fees, check fees, paper statement fees and more.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-american-express-isnt-universally-accepted/#:~:text=This amount varies%2C but typical,paper statement fees and more.

 

 

....and the costs for handling cash are.......?

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

OK.

This amount varies, but typical merchant fees fall between 2.5 percent and 3.5 percent.

Other merchant fees that may apply can include non-swiped transaction fees (when a credit card isn’t present and the number is keyed in), voice authorization fees, check fees, paper statement fees and more.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/why-american-express-isnt-universally-accepted/#:~:text=This amount varies%2C but typical,paper statement fees and more.

Its free to use cashless cards and there are no charges 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, connda said:

Btw, here is one overlooked aspect of Thai Buddhist society:  papow (I may have the word wrong) and gratin.  These are annual events that are widely attended by most Thai villagers and even metropolitan and cosmopolitan Thais.  Gratin happens after the annual Rain Retreats.  And it is a major festival for each individual temple and a time where the temple generates a majority of their yearly operating income
In villages it's a form of given with the expectation that the giver will receive a karmatic reward greater than the sum given.
For the metropolitan and cosmopolitan crowds it an opportunity to display status by displaying wealth through giving. 

Below are some examples of the giving at our own small village temple (about 250 people in our village)
Money Trees Are An Iconic Feature Of Buddhist Giving (Dana) and I must admit that the creative artistic nature is very beautiful as well as the really joyful ceremonies.

Our small temple generated over 300,000 THB on this one day.  There was also a 'papow' organized by my wife and some of her friends before the Gratin ceremony that took in another 10,000+ THB.

There are well over 40,000 Buddhist temples in Thailand and they all celebrate these "Dana" ceremonies.  Money is given like this all of the time especially during the Rain Retreats, after the Rain Retreats, during all Buddhist holidays, often on the date of the passing away of a relative (we do this annually for my wife's son and my own daughter who both passed away as children -- it's considered a way of passing on good karma to the deceased), and just at any given time when a Thai person or family feels the need to show generosity. 
 

The greedy don't care about anything except making your money theirs. I'm sure they'll come up with some reason why such can be eliminated so they can make more money than they can spend.

[ColeBOzbourne]

As a young lad I decided to give the cashless method a try. They arrested me for shoplifting. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:12 PM, connda said:

"A Carrington Event would be better," you ask.

I think so.  It will be The Great Leveler as opposed to The Great Reset.  We go back to a past that was difficult and yet still maintained a sense of honor and independence.
Yeah, it will be Mad Max to a degree.  But it kicks the struts from underneath those who seek a 1000 year reign of technocratic globalism with themselves set at the top of the pyramid as literal gods of the earth. 

I'd rather deal with regional warlords. 

Bring it on I say.

Then we'll see how the woke manage.

 

I have skills warlords need, courtesy of the government's military training.

[StreetCowboy]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:04 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its free to use cashless cards and there are no charges 

Other than those borne by the seller.
I don't know if they pass those costs on to the customer through their prices or not.

 

Cashless payment is a one-cent thief - like Grab, or Air BnB.
While the claim is that the individual is empowered by selling directly to the customer, in fact, a big business is sucking money out of that transaction through its monopolistic position as intermediairy.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Other than those borne by the seller.
I don't know if they pass those costs on to the customer through their prices or not.

 

Cashless payment is a one-cent thief - like Grab, or Air BnB.
While the claim is that the individual is empowered by selling directly to the customer, in fact, a big business is sucking money out of that transaction through its monopolistic position as intermediairy.

There are no extra costs when paying by these cards , you pay the same as you would when paying cash .

   I really don't know all the costs involved , but it seems that  using cards would be financially beneficial to all concerned  .

   Banks and shops don't have the cost of moving cash around , costs like running ATM's and shops having to take cash to banks to make deposits , then putting that cash back into ATM's for people to make withdrawals 

[StreetCowboy]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There are no extra costs when paying by these cards , you pay the same as you would when paying cash .

   I really don't know all the costs involved , but it seems that  using cards would be financially beneficial to all concerned  .

   Banks and shops don't have the cost of moving cash around , costs like running ATM's and shops having to take cash to banks to make deposits , then putting that cash back into ATM's for people to make withdrawals 

Your own staff take the cash to the bank - that salary for that time goes to your staff.
Payment by card or other non-cash means is rarely immediate, so that the working capital is with the intermediary, not the retailer.  The cost of Working Capital may be irrelevant to you, but that is not the case for many retailers.
 

The ability to more monitor and tax and police and control the way that money washes around the economy may be a big advantage. But I stand on the "or not" side of that argument.

 

SC 

[StreetCowboy]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:12 PM, connda said:

Here's my take (because it will happen, it's just a matter of time, at least for those of us who look back beyond a single life-time and can grasp the cyclical nature of, well, Nature.)

Do an internet search on Carrington Event and Coronal Mass Ejections.

That will end CBDC as well as a large proportion of mankind who have lost their agrarian roots and who believe the world will end if "green" electric infrastructure is not fully embraced for everything.

One good ***POP*** and it all stops and pretty much ends for generations to come as the world is tossed back into the dark ages (literally).   Oh, and those non-GMO heirloom seeds?  They'll be a currency within themselves. 

Personally, the way things are going at present? 
I think an X-30+, Earth-facing CME is just about the only thing that will 'save the Earth' from the present crop of greed-driven psychopaths who's vision for this world is serfdom for the majority of the commoners, ownership of everything that can be assigned a value by the Blackrocks and WEF crowds (and everything will be assigned a value down to the lowliest grains of sand), and of course euthanasia for the elderly, deformed, and otherwise unproductive CO2 producers.

"A Carrington Event would be better," you ask.

I think so.  It will be The Great Leveler as opposed to The Great Reset.  We go back to a past that was difficult and yet still maintained a sense of honor and independence.
Yeah, it will be Mad Max to a degree.  But it kicks the struts from underneath those who seek a 1000 year reign of technocratic globalism with themselves set at the top of the pyramid as literal gods of the earth. 

I'd rather deal with regional warlords. 

So can I get it clear - the end of civilisation will make the cashless society irrelevant?
Do you have any advice for the interim, before the end of civilisation?

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Your own staff take the cash to the bank - that salary for that time goes to your staff.
Payment by card or other non-cash means is rarely immediate, so that the working capital is with the intermediary, not the retailer.  The cost of Working Capital may be irrelevant to you, but that is not the case for many retailers.
 

The ability to more monitor and tax and police and control the way that money washes around the economy may be a big advantage. But I stand on the "or not" side of that argument.

 

SC 

The cash stays in your bank account and when you pay for something, the transaction goes through immediately , instantly , you cannot leave the shop until the money goes though , takes one second to complete the transaction .

   Yes, its much more difficult to commit financial crimes when there a paper  trail when you spend money , but you can still use just cast if you want to commit financial crimes, like tax evasion 

[StreetCowboy]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The cash stays in your bank account and when you pay for something, the transaction goes through immediately , instantly , you cannot leave the shop until the money goes though , takes one second to complete the transaction .

   Yes, its much more difficult to commit financial crimes when there a paper  trail when you spend money , but you can still use just cast if you want to commit financial crimes, like tax evasion 

Are you saying that as a customer, or as a retailer?
I think, like credit cards, the deduction is authorised immediately, but the payment not so.

SC

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There are no extra costs when paying by these cards , you pay the same as you would when paying cash .

   I really don't know all the costs involved , but it seems that  using cards would be financially beneficial to all concerned  .

   Banks and shops don't have the cost of moving cash around , costs like running ATM's and shops having to take cash to banks to make deposits , then putting that cash back into ATM's for people to make withdrawals 

Oh taking other people's money is just so inconvenient, so let's get rid of money, let the buyer take the risk of it going wrong, and make lots more profit.