IKEA kitchen assembly DIY or let them do it?

[Encid]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

 

 

More details for those who want

I see that you finished the project (well done BTW) in Sept 2013.

How is the paintwork holding up in that very humid environment 9 years later?

Apart from foot traffic areas where I'd expect some wear and tear is it still holding up well?

I note that you did not use galvanized steel.

Any rust anywhere?

 

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic, but I couldn't resist...

[poobear]

I vote to have Ikea do it even though I totally don't trust the craftsmanship here and basically do EVERYTHING my self but

 

1. I think the installation is free over a certain amount.

2. I would guess the kitchen installers do only kitchens so are experienced.

3. I had a very good experience having a Kitco kitchen in stalled. The installer were one of the only really competent teams i have ever seen here. Totally professional with all the needed tools and supplies. Granted the kitchen was simple and I did not have them do countertops.

[sometimewoodworker]

43 minutes ago, Encid said:

I see that you finished the project (well done BTW) in Sept 2013.

How is the paintwork holding up in that very humid environment 9 years later?

Apart from foot traffic areas where I'd expect some wear and tear is it still holding up well?

I note that you did not use galvanized steel.

Any rust anywhere?

 

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic, but I couldn't resist...

It needs cleaning, it could certainly use painting again, or there is no rust apart from a little on the closure. I am surprised that 2 of the sherawood slats have broken on one half and we should get round to replacing them.

[Encid]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It needs cleaning, it could certainly use painting again, or there is no rust apart from a little on the closure. I am surprised that 2 of the sherawood slats have broken on one half and we should get round to replacing them.

Goes to show the quality of the work done 9 years ago... again, well done!

Is there anything you would have done differently?

[Elkski]

I'm a DIY guy.  I've assembled a couple IKeA things.  The instructions basically used no words just pictures. It was important to look at the little details highlighted in the pictures.  I stepped on 1 piece that was left under some packing  and broke it.  IKEA replaced it at the store.  Also one of the cam lock devices was defective and broke and they provided a new one.  I think ikea it is trash  stuff. The surface finish is so fragile on the stuff I assembled and 20 years ago when our local Ikea was only 1 year old I took my first visit.  I recall the kitchen cabinet displays had lost the surface finish around the grab pulls customers probably tried the most.  Then it looks real bad.  It wouldn't be easy to paint over that plastic.  That said if your going to install them I say get a laser level and lots of shims for the floor.  Shim all 4 corners and check the top corners with a laser level  I installed my last kitchen and the countertop people said they had never seen cabinets so level.  It's easiest to start at the highest ground and then shim the rest up to that.  But if you have a corner that is the best place to start. Plan you shims in that case off your laser level pre surveying.   I watched installers do a kitchen and they only shimed under the front so the rear was only held by the wall screws.  I think this is the standard here as it saves lots of time and is considered acceptable even if granite is planned.  This is such an easier method because I had to shim and pull out some cabinets 5 or more times to get them level. You need a helper if your going to shim the rear corners.  It takes 2 to set the cabinet back in and not disturb the new shims.  I had 2x4 studs marked to screw into with big headed cabinet screws and I used the special small head dual screw, cabinet screws to connect the wood fronts together. You sink them just flush.   I've seen a new clamp that not only clamps the front facing together but also flush at the same time.  I just used clamps but predrilled the facing screw holes so they didn't wander out of flush much at all. My cabinets were painted but real wood facings so I needed to predrill.  You can put most all these facing screws under the hinges so they don't show. I calculated the top cabinet bottom height and had pre installed wires for the led under cabinet pucks.  I put the 2 power supplies under the sink.  I wired a separate outlet for them and it was switched.  Also can be operated via remote.  But with the 2 separate units that use the same remote you can get them out of synce using the remote.  I was tiling the back splash so after drilling a hole in the 3 separate known locations to fish the wires  1-2 cm up into the cabinet these wires were hidden by the tile. 

I'm sure you can do this and as well as any installer team.  Not as fast but you can get a quality job.  

I'm not sure what wall fasteners are used in the Thailand mortar walls. Not sure I would trust cabinets attached to some of the small red brick walls I've seen built there.   The cabinet screws I used are made with real strong steel. Coated for protection, have a big flattish head, and a torx drive.  

[OneMoreFarang]

34 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I'm a DIY guy.  I've assembled a couple IKeA things.  The instructions basically used no words just pictures. It was important to look at the little details highlighted in the pictures.  I stepped on 1 piece that was left under some packing  and broke it.  IKEA replaced it at the store.  Also one of the cam lock devices was defective and broke and they provided a new one.  I think ikea it is trash  stuff. The surface finish is so fragile on the stuff I assembled and 20 years ago when our local Ikea was only 1 year old I took my first visit.  I recall the kitchen cabinet displays had lost the surface finish around the grab pulls customers probably tried the most.  Then it looks real bad.  It wouldn't be easy to paint over that plastic.  That said if your going to install them I say get a laser level and lots of shims for the floor.  Shim all 4 corners and check the top corners with a laser level  I installed my last kitchen and the countertop people said they had never seen cabinets so level.  It's easiest to start at the highest ground and then shim the rest up to that.  But if you have a corner that is the best place to start. Plan you shims in that case off your laser level pre surveying.   I watched installers do a kitchen and they only shimed under the front so the rear was only held by the wall screws.  I think this is the standard here as it saves lots of time and is considered acceptable even if granite is planned.  This is such an easier method because I had to shim and pull out some cabinets 5 or more times to get them level. You need a helper if your going to shim the rear corners.  It takes 2 to set the cabinet back in and not disturb the new shims.  I had 2x4 studs marked to screw into with big headed cabinet screws and I used the special small head dual screw, cabinet screws to connect the wood fronts together. You sink them just flush.   I've seen a new clamp that not only clamps the front facing together but also flush at the same time.  I just used clamps but predrilled the facing screw holes so they didn't wander out of flush much at all. My cabinets were painted but real wood facings so I needed to predrill.  You can put most all these facing screws under the hinges so they don't show. I calculated the top cabinet bottom height and had pre installed wires for the led under cabinet pucks.  I put the 2 power supplies under the sink.  I wired a separate outlet for them and it was switched.  Also can be operated via remote.  But with the 2 separate units that use the same remote you can get them out of synce using the remote.  I was tiling the back splash so after drilling a hole in the 3 separate known locations to fish the wires  1-2 cm up into the cabinet these wires were hidden by the tile. 

I'm sure you can do this and as well as any installer team.  Not as fast but you can get a quality job.  

I'm not sure what wall fasteners are used in the Thailand mortar walls. Not sure I would trust cabinets attached to some of the small red brick walls I've seen built there.   The cabinet screws I used are made with real strong steel. Coated for protection, have a big flattish head, and a torx drive.  

Thanks!

 

A couple of comments: It seems IKEA has different quality levels. Some cheap things, one kitchen line with 10 years warranty, and one with 20 or 25 years warranty. That's the one I will buy.

 

They have plastic legs which allow to easily adjust the height over maybe 2cm. That should be more than enough for most floors. It's also easy to attach and remove the legs when the cabinets are already in positon.

 

I just had my condominium renovated from scratch including new wall finish, new electric, new water pipes and new floor tiles. Until now I think all is straight and square. I guess soon I will find out.

I have a laser level and other useful tools - probably better tools than most installers here.

 

I agree the thin hollow brick walls are a problem. I bought already anchors which should work well in those walls. And probably I will use more than recommended to be sure. That is one of the reasons why I now decided I will do it myself. Because if the hired installers use the "wrong" anchors for that type of wall then likely first nothing will fall down. But on the long run there will be problems. Doing it myself I hope I will avoid those problems.

 

Soon I will find out. I will write about my DIY experience here. I guess it will be a couple of weeks before I actually do the work.

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks!

 

A couple of comments: It seems IKEA has different quality levels. Some cheap things, one kitchen line with 10 years warranty, and one with 20 or 25 years warranty. That's the one I will buy.

 

They have plastic legs which allow to easily adjust the height over maybe 2cm. That should be more than enough for most floors. It's also easy to attach and remove the legs when the cabinets are already in positon.

 

I just had my condominium renovated from scratch including new wall finish, new electric, new water pipes and new floor tiles. Until now I think all is straight and square. I guess soon I will find out.

I have a laser level and other useful tools - probably better tools than most installers here.

 

I agree the thin hollow brick walls are a problem. I bought already anchors which should work well in those walls. And probably I will use more than recommended to be sure. That is one of the reasons why I now decided I will do it myself. Because if the hired installers use the "wrong" anchors for that type of wall then likely first nothing will fall down. But on the long run there will be problems. Doing it myself I hope I will avoid those problems.

 

Soon I will find out. I will write about my DIY experience here. I guess it will be a couple of weeks before I actually do the work.

 

I mentioned this before but Kitchen units, worktop are lower than in falangland, not sure if raising is possible

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They have plastic legs which allow to easily adjust the height over maybe 2cm. That should be more than enough for most floors. It's also easy to attach and remove the legs when the cabinets are already in positon.

If you are talking about the METOD article No. 10271029 then the levelling capacity is almost double that at 35mm though I wouldn’t add them with the cabinets in position. I fitted them first

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

Goes to show the quality of the work done 9 years ago... again, well done!

Is there anything you would have done differently?

Just possibly, the second section of roof is designed to accommodate water tanks, it looks pretty but I might have not left an opening for the water tanks. Other than that probably no I would have done it the same way.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I mentioned this before but Kitchen units, worktop are lower than in falangland, not sure if raising is possible

I asked them, they have a standard height. That's it.

 

But for me that is acceptable. My gf is almost 150cm height and I am tall. She spends a lot more time in the kitchen than I do. I am not looking for lower cabinets which would be better for her. But I am also not looking for higher cabinets. One of those compromises in life. And from our current kitchen in a rented apartment, we are both used to "normal" height. 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you are talking about the METOD article No. 10271029 then the levelling capacity is almost double that at 35mm though I wouldn’t add them with the cabinets in position. I fitted them first

This shows their usage. Because of that wide range and the two parts they can be installed when the lower cabinet is hanging on the wall. I also had a look at the nicer looking legs. They don't have that functionality.

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Isn’t this discussion itself is already more hassle than simply getting the IKEA guys to come and fit the units ???  !!!!

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Isn’t this discussion itself is already more hassle than simply getting the IKEA guys to come and fit the units ???  !!!!

In case you missed it:

The possible problem is that the IKEA guys, or any other installation guys, do bad quality work.

That is what this discussion is about.

DIY slowly and carefully with little experience and with the goal in mind to make something nice for my own home.

Or get it done by someone else who's interest it is to get it done quickly, get paid, move on, and never see that installation again.

The perfect situation would be to get it installed by someone professional who is proud of his work standards and does a careful job. Finding someone like that, especially in Thailand, is the difficult part. 

[unheard]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems IKEA has different quality levels. Some cheap things, one kitchen line with 10 years warranty, and one with 20 or 25 years warranty. That's the one I will buy.

I've never dealt with IKEA or even looked at their kitchens before.

What kind of a cabinet material being used for the sets with the longest warranty?

[sometimewoodworker]

51 minutes ago, unheard said:

What kind of a cabinet material being used for the sets with the longest warranty?

I would also be interested, though it is almost certainly chipboard as is a majority of ‘IKEA products. The difference is likely to be in the grade of chipboard used along with the plastic wrap/veneer used to seal it. I doubt that solid wood is being used, but would like to be surprised.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

I've never dealt with IKEA or even looked at their kitchens before.

What kind of a cabinet material being used for the sets with the longest warranty?

Here are all the details

https://www.ikea.com/th/en/cat/metod-kitchen-all-parts-ka005/

They have 25 years warranty. But until now I didn't read the fine print.

 

I remember IKEA from "back home" from many years ago and at that time it was furniture for people who couldn't afford anything better.

Maybe a year ago I watched some YouTube videos about IKEA METOD kitchens. It seems everybody thought they are good quality for the price and it's a very modular flexible system.

If anybody would want that custom made in real wood then (I guess) it would be a lot more expensive.

 

I visited IKEA Bangna two times. They have a huge area which seems to show all the different kitchen parts and options like 20 different door types and styles and colors, 20 different kind of grips, and and and.

It was also useful for me to go there with my small < 150cm gf so that we could see which cabinet height she can easily reach. First conclusion: Her head is lower than the upper cabinets, no worry about injuries. And my head is maybe in the middle of the upper cabinets - also no worry about any injuries. ???? 

[unheard]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Here are all the details

https://www.ikea.com/th/en/cat/metod-kitchen-all-parts-ka005/

They have 25 years warranty. But until now I didn't read the fine print.

"The core is made of 100% recycled paper and has a honeycomb-like structure."

 

So, composite panel boards?

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Isn’t this discussion itself is already more hassle than simply getting the IKEA guys to come and fit the units ???  !!!!

In case you missed it:

The possible problem is that the IKEA guys, or any other installation guys, do bad quality work.

That is what this discussion is about.

DIY slowly and carefully with little experience and with the goal in mind to make something nice for my own home.

Or get it done by someone else who's interest it is to get it done quickly, get paid, move on, and never see that installation again.

The perfect situation would be to get it installed by someone professional who is proud of his work standards and does a careful job. Finding someone like that, especially in Thailand, is the difficult part. 

Understood... I imagine mileage varies... 

 

First hand recent experience: The IKEA guys installed our Kitchen and did and excellent job.

 

They are familiar with their own kits etc....  someone earlier mentioned that the guys don’t know what they are doing and we could do a better job ourselves...  thats not my experience at all with IKEA. 

 

 

[Elkski]

I had classy closets install lots of particle board cabinets in my garage 20 years ago.  They used those plastic screw legs more like 10 or 12 cm tall.  In a garage I see the advantage of keeping the cabinets off the floor.  Also most garages have a foundation ledge that just our and they sit them on these so the fronts need legs. 

 Most kitchen cabinets in the US sit on the floor with a 6mm toe kick panel that spans like 8' of cabinetsput in after they are installed. 

Are kitchen cabinets in Thailand open underneath? 

I'm sure after building 1 cabinet you will get faster and I don't think it will take many to feel like a pro.  If your uppers use a clear system that will be nice and easier to install.  But dies that leave a gap in the back for a cabinet side not going against a wall?  So that requires a separate end panel?  I didn't quite understand why he used a hacksaw in that video on a leg if you had a tall end cabinet in the end.  When they installed my look was some would not adjust short enough so he just brought out his bench tub belt sander.  He didn't geind  them very square at all.  It was all about speed in his install.  

[Bill97]

49 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They have 25 years warranty.

Even if you install?

[Orinoco]

Get loads of your favorite beer in and some snacks.

Set the mobile on video record.

and ask your lady and her friend to put it all together.

free entertainment for hours.

Also,   can get it out at Christmas time for reruns with your mates

or even take it to your favorite bar and let others have a giggle.

may even get a few free beers from the expat community 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

Are kitchen cabinets in Thailand open underneath? 

I only know about IKEA.

The have various legs and they have covers for one kind of legs.

Then it's up to each individual what they want/do.

 

I like the idea to cover the front of the legs with an easy removable cover. If i.e. insects are under there it should be easy to clean. Here is one video what that was part of the installation series.

 

 

[unheard]

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Even if you install?

That's a good question.

Because the answer is likely to be negative.

[OneMoreFarang]

About the warranty:

 

IKEA writes

 

METOD kitchen system has a 25-year guarantee.

This guarantee covers all the following parts of the METOD kitchen system:

• Cabinet frames (except for VADHOLMA and TORNVIKEN)
• Fronts
• UTRUSTA hinges
• MAXIMERA fully-extending drawers
• EXCEPTIONELL fully-extending push-to-open drawers
• UTRUSTA shelves of tempered glass and melamine
• Legs and plinth
• Cover panels
• Deco strips/mouldings
• Worktops
• Sinks (except FYNDIG sinks)

 

https://www.ikea.com/th/en/customer-service/returns-claims/guarantee/

 

 

[unheard]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About the warranty:

It has escaped me that IKEA stuff is designed to be self-installed.

The 25-year guarantee does sound impressive on paper.

But how does work in reality?

 

IKEA states:

"What is not covered under this guarantee?
This guarantee does not cover normal wear and tear, cuts or scratches, or
damage caused by impacts or accidents.
This guarantee does not apply to products that have been stored, assembled
or installed incorrectly, used inappropriately, abused, misused, altered, or
cleaned with wrong cleaning methods or wrong cleaning products."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/10/ikea-warranty-kitchen-doors-fault

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

It has escaped me that IKEA stuff is designed to be self-installed.

The 25-year guarantee does sound impressive on paper.

But how does work in reality?

 

IKEA states:

"What is not covered under this guarantee?
This guarantee does not cover normal wear and tear, cuts or scratches, or
damage caused by impacts or accidents.
This guarantee does not apply to products that have been stored, assembled
or installed incorrectly, used inappropriately, abused, misused, altered, or
cleaned with wrong cleaning methods or wrong cleaning products."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/10/ikea-warranty-kitchen-doors-fault

 

That sounds to me like typical condition from almost any product.

I think it's not fair to expect warranty if the product was installed incorrectly or used incorrectly, etc.

I.e. if someone "cleans" a product with the wrong chemical there will be damage. That's why it is always a good idea to read the manual.

And lots of the above conditions are also not covered it an IKEA team assembled it.

 

And realistically, who expects to use a kitchen for 24 years and then tell the manufacturer: Look, there are some scratches, and the color also doesn't look new anymore. I want a new one... 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And realistically, who expects to use a kitchen for 24 years and then tell the manufacturer: Look, there are some scratches, and the color also doesn't look new anymore. I want a new one... 

Americans??? ???????????? 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Americans??? ???????????? 

I gave up trying to understand those strange people over there - and not just related to kitchens and warranty.

 

 

 

[unheard]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And realistically, who expects to use a kitchen for 24 years and then tell the manufacturer: Look, there are some scratches, and the color also doesn't look new anymore. I want a new one...

The reason I've quoted those conditions is to simply point out that the stated guarantees more likely than not are not even worth the cost of paper they're printed on.

I'm very skeptical of any product guarantee promises in this country, even if published by the global manufacturers.

I just go by the acquired product reputation that's been achieved locally since the global companies can not be trusted to deliver consistency across different national markets. Also pay attention to reviews if available (not a reliable metric either) and have no expectations of the guarantees to be ever honored, partially or in full.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, unheard said:

The reason I've quoted those conditions is to simply point out that the stated guarantees more likely than not are not even worth the cost of paper they're printed on.

I'm very skeptical of any product guarantee promises in this country, even if published by the global manufacturers.

I just go by the acquired product reputation that's been achieved locally since the global companies can not be trusted to deliver consistency across different national markets. Also pay attention to reviews if available (not a reliable metric either) and have no expectations of the guarantees to be ever honored, partially or in full.

I get your point.

 

I guess it makes me and others feel better to buy a product with a long warranty.

I.e. if I buy computer parts and some offer 5 years warranty and others 1 year then I will buy more likely the parts with 5 years warranty because I think/hope that their quality will be better.

 

But sometimes it's surprising that some companies really honor their warranty. I remember my mother had a set of pots which had lifetime warranty (I forgot the brand). Maybe 20 years after she bought them, she contacted the manufacturer and told them about damaged or broken handles. And what happened? The manufacturer sent her a new set of handles - maybe two decades after she bought the product. Respect.