Get vaccinated! Six Covid dead in a day in ONE Korat hospital - tragic scenes all over again

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

As usual, more rhetoric trying to push the anti-vaxxer agenda, and false information.  Here is a thought for you, If  100% were vaxxed and folks still got ill would you continue blaming the vax.........onto ignore now.

Off-topic, I intervened because a user claimed (page 4, post no. 6) that most Covid deaths were unjabbed and I stated that this is not true. Of course, as expected the said statement was not rationally contradicted (it is incontrovertible) but it triggered a flow of Pavlovian and juvenile reactions, from name calling to placing on ignore, not entirely dissimilar to children throwing their toys and covering their ears when confronted with something they don't like.

 

How about just saying "I was wrong?" Pathetic.

Edited December 13, 2022 by rattlesnake

[lessismore]

22 hours ago, sandyf said:

Irrelevant, if you die your dead.

No one has ever said vaccination will prevent you dying, it is only one of the precautions that can be taken to reduce the risk to yourself and others.

Prevention has always been better than cure.

Hello sandyf,

Could you be please tell us how being vaccinated would reduce the risk for others since it doesn't prevent transmission?

Here are the facts:

 

1. The vaccine wasn't tested  for its impact on transmission prior to its release.

"On 11 October, Dutch MEP Rob Roos tweeted a video clip from part of a Covid hearing at the European Parliament the previous day where he asked Janine Small, president of international markets at Pfizer, whether its Covid-19 vaccine was tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release. 

Ms Small confirmed it was not tested in that way before release."

Source : https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-transmission-test/

 

2. Further studies could'nt show any efficacity on reducing transmisson.

"the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."

Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

 

[sandyf]

34 minutes ago, lessismore said:

Hello sandyf,

Could you be please tell us how being vaccinated would reduce the risk for others since it doesn't prevent transmission?

"it is only one of the precautions that can be taken to reduce the risk to yourself and others."

If the statement was beyond your comprehension, not a lot to be said.

[lessismore]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If the statement was beyond your comprehension, not a lot to be said.

Yes, I'm probably too stupid to understand the complexity of your reasoning. Let me try again:

When you say "one of the precautions that can be taken to reduce the risk to yourself and others." doesn't it imply that the vaccine can reduce the risk to others?

English is not my first language, so  I might have misunderstood...

[actonion]

I'm no doctor but i do feel Personal  Hygiene  has a lot to do with who catches covid ,  in my experience local Thai's are not so  Hygienic

[Photoguy21]

On 12/12/2022 at 2:20 PM, JustThisOnePostOnly said:

Especially in jurisdictions where the government paid the hospital handsomely to conflate the two.

In every country there has always been the willingness to ignore the facts.

[zzaa09]

8 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

In every country there has always been the willingness to ignore the facts.

Or easily go along with the invented and twisted facts.

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, lessismore said:

Hello sandyf,

Could you be please tell us how being vaccinated would reduce the risk for others since it doesn't prevent transmission?

Here are the facts:

 

1. The vaccine wasn't tested  for its impact on transmission prior to its release.

"On 11 October, Dutch MEP Rob Roos tweeted a video clip from part of a Covid hearing at the European Parliament the previous day where he asked Janine Small, president of international markets at Pfizer, whether its Covid-19 vaccine was tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release. 

Ms Small confirmed it was not tested in that way before release."

Source : https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-transmission-test/

 

2. Further studies could'nt show any efficacity on reducing transmisson.

"the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."

Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

 

How does being vaccinated reduce the risk to others, is to me, such an absurd question that highlights just how far down the rabbit hole some have tumbled.

 

How on earth have we reached a point where facts and truth and science are so wilfully disregarded in favour of prejudice, self interest and delusion.

 

Those who proudly proclaim ”I do my own research” and shout with all their might “fake news” may very well bring about the end of democracy if not humanity itself.

 

Poor white Americans protesting against expanding healthcare….????

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, lessismore said:

 

2. Further studies could'nt show any efficacity on reducing transmisson.

"the impact of vaccination on community transmission of circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 appeared to be not significantly different from the impact among unvaccinated people."

Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

 

You have labeled this in a false and misleading manner. It is not a study, far from it, its correspondence. Its a letter to the editor and that is all.

[pomchop]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:00 AM, peter zwart said:

RIP to all. But vaccination wont give any guarantee. Especially now that it has become apparent that more vaccinated people die as a result of C than non-vaccinated people. 

and where did u get that piece of info ?  Here we go all over again with the anti vax bunch...

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely

[lessismore]

38 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You have labeled this in a false and misleading manner. It is not a study, far from it, its correspondence. Its a letter to the editor and that is all.

Ok, my bad, I rephrase it:

This letter to the editor published in The Lancet website includes a list of studies that doesn't show any efficacity on reducing transmission.

Now could you give me an answer on this fact ?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, lessismore said:

Ok, my bad, I rephrase it:

This letter to the editor published in The Lancet website includes a list of studies that doesn't show any efficacity on reducing transmission.

Now could you give me an answer on this fact ?

No its not fact as it also references media articles and pre published studies that have not been peer reviewed. Of the one I did look at that was published in Lancet it clearly states that viral loads on vaccinated are reduced so not as infectious to other people although they can still pass it on.

[lessismore]

59 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

How does being vaccinated reduce the risk to others, is to me, such an absurd question that highlights just how far down the rabbit hole some have tumbled.

 

How on earth have we reached a point where facts and truth and science are so wilfully disregarded in favour of prejudice, self interest and delusion.

 

Those who proudly proclaim ”I do my own research” and shout with all their might “fake news” may very well bring about the end of democracy if not humanity itself.

 

Poor white Americans protesting against expanding healthcare….????

Prejudice?

1. The president of international markets at Pfizer saying at the European Parlement that Covid-19 vaccine has not been tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release is a fact.

2. The studies that didn't show any efficacity on transmission have been published in the most prestigious medical and scientific journals:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309921006484

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2109072

 

Or maybe these top scientists who are questionning the efficacity of the covid vaccine on transmission, and who are published in the most renowned journals are just guided by "prejudice, self interest and delusion"?

I would be glad to read your answer to that, MrMojoRisin.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, lessismore said:

Prejudice?

1. The president of international markets at Pfizer saying at the European Parlement that Covid-19 vaccine has not been tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release is a fact.

2. The studies that didn't show any efficacity on transmission have been published in the most prestigious medical and scientific journals:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309921006484

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2109072

 

Or maybe these top scientists who are questionning the efficacity of the covid vaccine on transmission, and who are published in the most renowned journals are just guided by "prejudice, self interest and delusion"?

I would be glad to read your answer to that, MrMojoRisin.

Now check all the studies listed in this article:

 

Fact Check-Preventing transmission never required for COVID vaccines’ initial approval; Pfizer vax did reduce transmission of early variants

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-transmission-idUSL1N31F20E

[lessismore]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No its not fact as it also references media articles and pre published studies that have not been peer reviewed. Of the one I did look at that was published in Lancet it clearly states that viral loads on vaccinated are reduced so not as infectious to other people although they can still pass it on.

" although they can still pass it on" doesn't that mean that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission?

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, lessismore said:

" although they can still pass it on" doesn't that mean that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission?

 

It means it can lessen the risk yes. Are you lacking comprehension skills today and please check all the other studies posted in my latest link

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

and where did u get that piece of info ?  Here we go all over again with the anti vax bunch...

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely

You have posted an article from September 2021. Excerpt:

 

"The research found that across all ages, vaccine effectiveness was "significantly higher" among Moderna vaccine recipients — at 95% — than among Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson vaccine recipients, with vaccine effectiveness of 80% and 60%, respectively."

 

This is December 2022, do you maybe want to rectify your assertion?

Edited December 14, 2022 by rattlesnake

[lessismore]

41 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Now check all the studies listed in this article:

 

Fact Check-Preventing transmission never required for COVID vaccines’ initial approval; Pfizer vax did reduce transmission of early variants

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-transmission-idUSL1N31F20E

This article is saying that:

1. The vaccine hasn't been tested for its effect on transmission before its release. I think we can agree on this first point.

2. Studies have shown its effectiveness on the earlier variants of the virus. I'm glad to hear that but we're discussing the necessity of getting vaccinated against the actual variants.

3. The third part of the article discusses the effectiveness of the vaccine on the transmission of the more recent variant Omicron. That's what we want to know.

 

It says : "vaccinated people who experience an Omicron breakthrough infection still have lower odds of passing the virus to their contacts" and quote this preprint as a reference:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.08.22278547v6 

 

In this preprint, you can find these numbers : "we estimate that unvaccinated Omicron cases had a 36% (95% confidence interval (CI): 31-42%) risk of transmitting infection to close contacts, as compared to 28% (25-31%) risk among vaccinated cases."

 

So basically this article is saying that vaccination reduces the risk of Omicron transmission by 8%.

Before we continue this fascinating conversation (if you're willing to), would you please tell me if I got something wrong?

Edited December 14, 2022 by lessismore

[Photoguy21]

I dont know about Thailand but in many other countries if a hospital puts a death down to Covid they get more money from the government than if they put down the real reason. May not be the same in Thailand but you do have to wonder.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, lessismore said:

This article is saying that:

1. The vaccine hasn't been tested for its effect on transmission before its release. I think we can agree on this first point.

2. Studies have shown its effectiveness on the earlier variants of the virus. I'm glad to hear that but we're discussing the necessity of getting vaccinated against the actual variants.

3. The third part of the article discusses the effectiveness of the vaccine on the transmission of the more recent variant Omicron. That's what we want to know.

 

It says : "vaccinated people who experience an Omicron breakthrough infection still have lower odds of passing the virus to their contacts" and quote this preprint as a reference:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.08.22278547v6 

 

In this preprint, you can find these numbers : "we estimate that unvaccinated Omicron cases had a 36% (95% confidence interval (CI): 31-42%) risk of transmitting infection to close contacts, as compared to 28% (25-31%) risk among vaccinated cases."

 

So basically this article is saying that vaccination reduces the risk of Omicron transmission by 8%.

Before we continue this fascinating conversation (if you're willing to), would you please tell me if I got something wrong?

Nope, sounds like a good summary and what I also read into it. With earlier variants transmission effectiveness was far better but now with Omicron its reduced to a small percentage. Lessening the risk as I stated in prior posts.

[pomchop]

47 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

You have posted an article from September 2021. Excerpt:

 

"The research found that across all ages, vaccine effectiveness was "significantly higher" among Moderna vaccine recipients — at 95% — than among Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson vaccine recipients, with vaccine effectiveness of 80% and 60%, respectively."

 

This is December 2022, do you maybe want to rectify your assertion?

So the excerpt says moderna was significanlty higher effectiveness than pfizer...so?

 

Still waiting to see the source of this nugget:    it has become apparent that more vaccinated people die as a result of C than non-vaccinated people. 

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, lessismore said:

Prejudice?

1. The president of international markets at Pfizer saying at the European Parlement that Covid-19 vaccine has not been tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release is a fact.

2. The studies that didn't show any efficacity on transmission have been published in the most prestigious medical and scientific journals:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309921006484

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2109072

 

Or maybe these top scientists who are questionning the efficacity of the covid vaccine on transmission, and who are published in the most renowned journals are just guided by "prejudice, self interest and delusion"?

I would be glad to read your answer to that, MrMojoRisin.

The anti vax position is just ridiculous.

 

I am fully aware that both logic and reason have long been abandoned by the basement dwellers who bewilderingly think they’re qualified to debate medical experts.

 

Seatbelts do not prevent 100% of motor vehicle accident fatalities, I still use them.

 

https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/covid-19/how-should-psychiatry-respond-to-covid-19-anti-vax-attitudes/

 

 

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, lessismore said:

Hello sandyf,

Could you be please tell us how being vaccinated would reduce the risk for others since it doesn't prevent transmission?

If one is infected and has been vaccinated, they have less severe symptoms (if any), and recover more quickly, and are thus contagious for less time. You have to consider a bigger picture than one on one!

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, lessismore said:

Prejudice?

1. The president of international markets at Pfizer saying at the European Parlement that Covid-19 vaccine has not been tested for its impact on transmission prior to its release is a fact.

2. The studies that didn't show any efficacity on transmission have been published in the most prestigious medical and scientific journals:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309921006484

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2109072

 

Or maybe these top scientists who are questionning the efficacity of the covid vaccine on transmission, and who are published in the most renowned journals are just guided by "prejudice, self interest and delusion"?

I would be glad to read your answer to that, MrMojoRisin.

Everything That Pfizer individual said was taken out of context to suit a specific agenda by the individuals that posted what your again regurgitating...look again...

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/10/scicheck-its-not-news-nor-scandalous-that-pfizer-trial-didnt-test-transmission/

Edited December 14, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[metisdead]

A post with content from an unapproved YouTube source has been removed as well as the replies. 

[n00dle]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:49 AM, djayz said:

As long as life is good for you. 

dude has to go to work, how good could life be?

[Bkk Brian]

200,000 US citizens needlessly lost their lives because of anti vaccine misinformation

 

“Anti-vaccine activism, which I actually call anti-science aggression, has now become a major killing force globally." - @PeterHotez, Professor and Dean @BCM_TropMed, on the devastating impact of #misinformation and disinformation.

 

 

[lessismore]

17 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Everything That Pfizer individual said was taken out of context to suit a specific agenda by the individuals that posted what your again regurgitating...look again...

Excuse me ThailandRyan but I don't understand what you're talking about.

I just pointed out that Pfizer vaccine has not been tested on transmission before its release.

It's just a fact and according to the fact checkers, it's completly normal. 

Did I write somewhere that this is a scandal and that people shouldn't get vaccinated because of it?

Look again.

Edited December 15, 2022 by lessismore

[Neeranam]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:08 PM, Phulublub said:

Would that be the same Goons who only gave the vaccines they were initially able to source to the local population, but as soon as the Western vaccines were available, foreigners were pretty much put at the front of the queue?

 

(And why was it a huge proportion of the World was so low on vaccine availability?  Oh yes - so that the developed west could pick and choose and have multiple vaccines available for their own populations.)

 

PH

Goons? 

Nothing wrong with giving limited Vaccines to local people. 

Actually, when the Western Vaccines came to my area, Khon Kaen, I couldn't get one as I didn't have a visa in my UK passport. Foreigners got them well before me. 

[Olmate]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Goons? 

Nothing wrong with giving limited Vaccines to local people. 

Actually, when the Western Vaccines came to my area, Khon Kaen, I couldn't get one as I didn't have a visa in my UK passport. Foreigners got them well before me. 

Cant have your cake...!!