Why are all long-term visas called "Non-Immigrant"?

[novacova]

  On 12/23/2022 at 12:01 PM, Neeranam said:

Does she have a non-Thai pink ID card?

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No, it’s neither a blue Thai id or a pink id card. If I remember correctly, its off white? with her Thai surname and first name. Also issued to her by the Thai government is an id with only her given first name and nationality, can’t remember the color of it, it may have been pink, just don’t remember color of that one being quite awhile ago 

[Boomer6969]

  On 12/23/2022 at 11:57 AM, Neeranam said:

You are off topic with your bashing. 

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Bashing? I got a 10 years visa and zero interest in Thai citizenship. I got my PR visa in Paris in 1980 and Australian citizenship in 1985. But yes it was a win win. Obviously "Material's science" was too reminiscent of Louis XiV, when some wise men were dedicated to the study of the King's stool....

[FriendlyFarang]

  On 12/23/2022 at 1:16 PM, novacova said:

No, it’s neither a blue Thai id or a pink id card. If I remember correctly, its off white? with her Thai surname and first name. Also issued to her by the Thai government is an id with only her given first name and nationality, can’t remember the color of it, it may have been pink, just don’t remember color of that one being quite awhile ago 

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Yes, the card is white, it's issued to stateless people etc.

I think we can call them immigrants, because afaik these people are allowed to stay for life. (They can't leave Thailand, because they don't have a passport)

[sikishrory]

  On 12/23/2022 at 12:51 AM, NorthernRyland said:

You're still effectively a tourist, albeit a little longer term. 90 day reports are included also so you interact with immigration the same amount as a tourist would on a METV. No other special privileges, double pricing the same as tourists etc... IMO all foreigners in Thailand are tourists and I refer to myself as a tourist if anyone asks. 

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Not in terms of tax 

[novacova]

  On 12/23/2022 at 2:49 PM, FriendlyFarang said:

Yes, the card is white, it's issued to stateless people etc.

I think we can call them immigrants, because afaik these people are allowed to stay for life. (They can't leave Thailand, because they don't have a passport)

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Actually she can and has crossed into Myanmar since she’s lived in Thailand, but cannot travel to other countries. In her words “I am a citizen of no country”

[BritTim]

  On 12/23/2022 at 8:28 AM, JoseThailand said:

The visa is truly long term, extendable indefinitely every 12 months. Unlike the tourist visa, which can be extended only once by 30 days.

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There are certainly more options available for extending your permission to stay if here on a non immigrant entry. However, there is no guarantee that you will be able to extend using the same reason as previously. Your own changing circumstances, changing requirements, and discretion of the officials in interpreting those requirements means that your last one year extension of stay might be your last.

[BritTim]

  On 12/23/2022 at 2:49 PM, FriendlyFarang said:

They can't leave Thailand, because they don't have a passport

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They can, if they wish, get a United Nations travel document that most countries recognise, and will issue visas, under suitable circumstances. However, stateless persons living in Thailand will rarely travel internationally because Thailand might block their return.

[still kicking]

  On 12/23/2022 at 1:42 AM, Neeranam said:

Indeed, much easier in Thailand than Australia. 

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Nonsense

[orchidfan]

  On 12/23/2022 at 11:59 AM, Neeranam said:

Was this when it was British?

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No, after the Chinese took it back in 1997. I'm sure the same rules apply today. 

[Time Traveller]

  On 12/23/2022 at 1:14 AM, Neeranam said:

There are no preposterous requirements for citizenship, that's a bar stool myth. 

Not even a requirement to read/write/ speak Thai now, if married to a local. 

Easy if married to a Thai. I applied Dec 2017 and got it Dec 2020, with delays for Covid. 

I worked as an English teacher for 3 years, paying tax on 40,000 baht a month. 

Anyway, I call myself an expat, not an immigrant, but won't go into why. 

 

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Maybe you're omitting some information and that your story is true, but I highly doubt it.     There is zero chance a foreign male will become a Thai citizen by naturalization based upon work by 3 years of earning 40,000 baht per month. (Surprised they even accepted the application) 

Years ago I tried to apply and the application was rejected  and that was 5 years working at an IT company with salary just under 100k per month, married and children.      Even applying to permanent residence was stuck in immigration purgatory for 3 years with no progress.  In the end I just ended up giving up as there was no transparency in the process at all.

 

Anyway, in the meantime, I immigrated to USA, became a citizen in a very easy and transparent process.  So yes, Thailand does have  preposterous requirements for citizenship  (and PR for that matter).

 

[Neeranam]

  On 12/24/2022 at 4:42 AM, orchidfan said:

No, after the Chinese took it back in 1997. I'm sure the same rules apply today. 

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Ah, OK. I misread, thinking you had Citizenship, and China don't allow dual citizenship. 

[Neeranam]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:20 AM, Time Traveller said:

Maybe you're omitting some information and that your story is true, but I highly doubt it.     There is zero chance a foreign male will become a Thai citizen by naturalization based upon work by 3 years of earning 40,000 baht per month. (Surprised they even accepted the application) 

Years ago I tried to apply and the application was rejected  and that was 5 years working at an IT company with salary just under 100k per month, married and children.      Even applying to permanent residence was stuck in immigration purgatory for 3 years with no progress.  In the end I just ended up giving up as there was no transparency in the process at all.

 

Anyway, in the meantime, I immigrated to USA, became a citizen in a very easy and transparent process.  So yes, Thailand does have  preposterous requirements for citizenship  (and PR for that matter).

 

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My story is true.

Did you apply over 10 years ago?

You say you 'tried to apply', what does this mean?

I highly doubt you did apply, or you are omitting some important information. 

 

What requirements do you think are preposterous? What reasons did SB give for refusing your application? Something fishy here. 

[Neeranam]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:20 AM, Time Traveller said:

Anyway, in the meantime, I immigrated to USA, became a citizen in a very easy and transparent process. 

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How many years did that take you? 

I enquired about retiring in the USA and was told I would have to invest 17 million baht for a long-term visa. 

Anyway, the US is a country created by immigrants whereas Thailand are more choosy. 

[Time Traveller]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:52 AM, Neeranam said:

How many years did that take you? 

I enquired about retiring in the USA and was told I would have to invest 17 million baht for a long-term visa. 

Anyway, the US is a country created by immigrants whereas Thailand are more choosy. 

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18 to 24 months waiting to get the visa.  Then after that both my wife and I both entered the US as immigrants  on green cards.  5 years later qualified for citizenship.  I understand US immigration gets a bad rap from many people, but I can say in my experience is was very smooth and transparent process that did not require excessive amounts of paperwork, nor having to kowtow to officials.   

 

Thailand is an independent nation and can run their immigration however they choose, but to say that they don't have preposterous requirements is absolutely being blind to facts. 

[orchidfan]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:42 AM, Neeranam said:

Ah, OK. I misread, thinking you had Citizenship, and China don't allow dual citizenship. 

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No, my wife (thai) and I (guilo) both have "Permanent Residence"  on out HKID cards. 

But for Hong Kong only.

But it's more than Thailand give no matter if your wife is Thai or if you work or how long you live there. 

 

No requirement (after the 7 years) to speak, read or write Chinese (Cantonese or Mandarin ) in getting Permanent Residence status.

 

Luckily most people here are multi lingual in Chinese and English.....including cops !

[Time Traveller]

  On 12/24/2022 at 5:49 AM, Neeranam said:

My story is true.

Did you apply over 10 years ago?

You say you 'tried to apply', what does this mean?

I highly doubt you did apply, or you are omitting some important information. 

 

What requirements do you think are preposterous? What reasons did SB give for refusing your application? Something fishy here. 

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yes,  I don't remember which year it was (just after the rules changed to allow married non-PRs) -  likely between 2008 to 2010.   They advised that I was better off applying for PR first.   The citizenship application process is effectively a black hole and several people I knew were 3+ years and still no decision on their cases.

 

Then my attempt for PR came at a bad time.  With one or two years where they did not accept applications at all, or they announced it open on the last week of the year!    Then the backlog on pending applications blew out to 3 years.   In the end I just said screw it, I'll take a higher paying job in USA and move on with my life.   

Oh well, my loss.   But Thailand is not seriously interested in immigrants. That's just the facts. Its not as easy as you say

[Neeranam]

  On 12/24/2022 at 8:50 AM, Time Traveller said:

 But Thailand is not seriously interested in immigrants. That's just the facts. Its not as easy as you say

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I asked what requirements you think are hard, yet got no answer. Actually you said "preposterous".

Granted, pre-2008, you had to have Thai ability but most countries have this. 

Then it took 10 years or so, in 2017, it took me 3 years.

[Neeranam]

  On 12/24/2022 at 8:43 AM, Time Traveller said:

Thailand is an independent nation and can run their immigration however they choose, but to say that they don't have preposterous requirements is absolutely being blind to facts. 

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I am nothing special, I am married to a Thai, worked as an English teacher for 3 years to get tax receipts on 40k baht a year and a Work Permit. I paid 7k baht to charity, requirement is 5k. 

I had a yellow housebook for 3 years. There was no language requirement. 

I really can't think of any other difficult thing I needed. 

[kinyara]

  On 12/24/2022 at 1:41 PM, Neeranam said:

I am nothing special, I am married to a Thai, worked as an English teacher for 3 years to get tax receipts on 40k baht a year and a Work Permit. I paid 7k baht to charity, requirement is 5k. 

I had a yellow housebook for 3 years. There was no language requirement. 

I really can't think of any other difficult thing I needed. 

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I'm not in a position to or intending to do it, but what are the significant benefits to citizenship here ? I understand security of stay but is there anything else, I haven't found life too challenging here on non-immigrant status.