Enlarged Prostate/BPH - What is the best/most effective operational procedure ?

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Not sure if this if "off topic" but here goes - about 15months ago I had a prostate MRI in the UK it showed that I possibly had a small cancer. Last week I had an MRI at the Bangkok Hospital here in Thailand, it showed a possible cancer (80%) with exactly the same dimensions as the first one (which rightly or wrongly gives me some comfort), my PSA which had been rising steadily appears to have stabilised at around 22.

Of course, both the UK doctor and the Thai doctor want to do a biopsy. I do not want to have one - my reasons:

1. I'm 79 (today as it happens)  whatever a biopsy might show has to be seen in the light of my actuarial life expectancy of 7 years - do I want to go through months of chemo to maybe prolong a inevitably deteriorating life by a few months?

2. Having a biopsy has risks and I do not want to take the risk of jeopardising my current (apart from a loss of cartilage in the right knee - but that's another story) reasonably fit and healthy state.

Quality over quantity being my watchword.

Of course, I would like to do everything I can within the above parameters to address the prostate issue so the question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to my next course of action?

Thanks

 

Understandable. Next course of actions depends on your symptoms

[BigStar]

8 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

I believe in cause affect, not unknown origin.

It's great to have clear, convincing evidence of the root cause. When the evidence that smoking causes cancer became undeniable, a lot of suffering was prevented and lives saved. What's amazing is how some people still smoke anyway.

 

In the absence of clarity, I'll try to go with probabilities. Then sources and credibility become important. Nutrition is a quite a minefield, what with the food industry paying for biased research and paying lobbyists.

 

8 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

Authors I have read, claim inorganic minerals contained in denatured food and tap or bottled water cause BPH.

Hmm. Sources would be of interest.

 

9 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

I quit adding excessive inorganic minerals into my diet and started drinking distilled water and eating more fruits and salads which contain organic minerals which more easily flush out the inorganic minerals, plus other protocols can too.  It has been a real pleasure returning to normal prostate functioning.

One can only laud your success. It would be helpful for the average person to eat better and lose weight.

[rumak]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:51 AM, BigStar said:

Great. Low carb + exercise, staying fit, is, I think, also responsible for my not being bothered by BPH symptoms so far at age 73. Somewhat slower flow is about it, so far.

same for me .   also eat and drink little  at evening meal(or none , but i stick with something very light) .  I am 72.   Most guys our age will not want to do what it takes to stay off pills.... and then operations.  period

[save the frogs]

On 12/28/2022 at 7:24 AM, Mark Nothing said:

And an hour a day exercise, walking. 

yes, i think a lot of people underestimate the benefits of walking.

there was another thread recently about hypertension. i believe walking an hour a day will help regulate that as well. 

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Not sure if this if "off topic" but here goes - about 15months ago I had a prostate MRI in the UK it showed that I possibly had a small cancer. Last week I had an MRI at the Bangkok Hospital here in Thailand, it showed a possible cancer (80%) with exactly the same dimensions as the first one (which rightly or wrongly gives me some comfort), my PSA which had been rising steadily appears to have stabilised at around 22.

Of course, both the UK doctor and the Thai doctor want to do a biopsy. I do not want to have one - my reasons:

1. I'm 79 (today as it happens)  whatever a biopsy might show has to be seen in the light of my actuarial life expectancy of 7 years - do I want to go through months of chemo to maybe prolong a inevitably deteriorating life by a few months?

2. Having a biopsy has risks and I do not want to take the risk of jeopardising my current (apart from a loss of cartilage in the right knee - but that's another story) reasonably fit and healthy state.

Quality over quantity being my watchword.

Of course, I would like to do everything I can within the above parameters to address the prostate issue so the question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to my next course of action?

Thanks

 

Difficult. What did the docs say about your prospects if it IS cancer? HOW risky for you would the biopsy be?

 

 

[Sheryl]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:34 PM, Negita43 said:

Not sure if this if "off topic" but here goes - about 15months ago I had a prostate MRI in the UK it showed that I possibly had a small cancer. Last week I had an MRI at the Bangkok Hospital here in Thailand, it showed a possible cancer (80%) with exactly the same dimensions as the first one (which rightly or wrongly gives me some comfort), my PSA which had been rising steadily appears to have stabilised at around 22.

Of course, both the UK doctor and the Thai doctor want to do a biopsy. I do not want to have one - my reasons:

1. I'm 79 (today as it happens)  whatever a biopsy might show has to be seen in the light of my actuarial life expectancy of 7 years - do I want to go through months of chemo to maybe prolong a inevitably deteriorating life by a few months?

2. Having a biopsy has risks and I do not want to take the risk of jeopardising my current (apart from a loss of cartilage in the right knee - but that's another story) reasonably fit and healthy state.

Quality over quantity being my watchword.

Of course, I would like to do everything I can within the above parameters to address the prostate issue so the question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to my next course of action?

Thanks

 

Why on earth do you think treatment would involve months of chemotherapy?

 

Unless the cancer has already metastasized treatment would be either surgery or brachytherapy.

Millions of men undergo both  successfully.

 

You really do not want to die of prostate cancer. It us a particularly difficult death.

 

 

[HuskerDo2]

I had a bit of a problem in that area and the doctor said it would take 30 days to see a response but I saw a positive response after just 1 day. It's called Tamsulosin. I told the doctor about the quick reaction and he said that everyone responds to things differently.

 

Ask your doctor about Tamsulosin. It worked wonders for me.   

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, HuskerDo2 said:

I had a bit of a problem in that area and the doctor said it would take 30 days to see a response but I saw a positive response after just 1 day. It's called Tamsulosin. I told the doctor about the quick reaction and he said that everyone responds to things differently.

 

Ask your doctor about Tamsulosin. It worked wonders for me.   

Very true about different responses to meds. When I was put on Silodosin due to inflammation post Rezum, it resolved the problem it was intended for but gave me a severe case of the trots. Had to change meds. 

[Rimmer]

A post with an incorrect quote has been removed

[xylophone]

Still on topic, and another one of the potential procedures I investigated was iTind whereby a type of spring loaded device is inserted in the urethra (a painless procedure it appears) and this gradually widens the urethra over the period of seven days, whence it is removed.

 

I also researched Rezum (as I posted) but have seen mixed feedback and in particular one poster here had problems in that area for a few months afterwards, and despite the fact they say you can go home after the procedure, some men have had to have a catheter in place for up to 7 days and/or a 7 day hospital stay.

 

Back onto iTind and it appears that the same urologist who performs the Rezum procedure at BNH can also perform the iTind procedure, because the hospital now has it available, and it is certainly one that I would use in the first instance.

 

WHY: – because there is no cutting, laser or steam (heat) involved and the device can be removed after seven days, and if successful then great, and if not, then there are always other options to try as I have noted.

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

yes, i think a lot of people underestimate the benefits of walking.

there was another thread recently about hypertension. i believe walking an hour a day will help regulate that as well. 

Walking is certainly good but difficult to get your heart up if fit, walking my heart goes to 80-90, cycling 170s max usually. i know some very fit 60s, 70, even 80s guys who cycle a lot

[thaibeachlovers]

Do they still do radical prostatectomies? If so don't get one of those. Ruined my life.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

yes, i think a lot of people underestimate the benefits of walking.

there was another thread recently about hypertension. i believe walking an hour a day will help regulate that as well. 

I used to walk a great deal. Made no difference to my hypertension, or my prostate.

[scubascuba3]

42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do they still do radical prostatectomies? If so don't get one of those. Ruined my life.

If that's total removal, Simon? posted that he was going down that road 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

If that's total removal, Simon? posted that he was going down that road 

Yes total removal, and horrible side effects. I'd never go that route if I could go back.

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Walking is certainly good but difficult to get your heart up if fit, walking my heart goes to 80-90, cycling 170s max usually. i know some very fit 60s, 70, even 80s guys who cycle a lot

mark sisson recommends lifting, sprinting, and moving at a slow pace.

prolonged intense cardio like cycling with an elevated heart rate for 2 hours is not on the list. 

he mentions gentle cycling, not intense cycling for hours and hours. 

i'm more a fan of sports. like when you play soccer/football, you have to sprint ocasionally but then you're basically walking most of the time. the stop-start elevated heart rate and then moving at a slow pace is better than keeping an elevated heart rate for an hour like jogging or intense cycling. which can damage the heart. that's why marathoners sometimes drop dead. 

https://www.primalblueprint.com/blogs/primal-blueprint/the-primal-blueprint-4-essential-movements

 

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I used to walk a great deal. Made no difference to my hypertension, or my prostate.

hahaha, never ever ever take health advice from random strangers on forums is what i'm getting from this.

[crouchpeter]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:11 AM, Lancelot01 said:

I have written about this situation here before.

I was diagnosed with an enlarged prostate late last year. 

I decided I didn't want to continue with the prescribed medication and so, after consulting Dr Google, I changed my diet (to Keto) and took more exercise. That was in January. 

After four months I had lost 20kg (+/-45lbs), the prostate reduced and, in consultation with my doctor, I discontinued the medication. 

A further 'side effect' was that my blood pressure returned to normal and, again after speaking with my doctor, I  no longer take bp medication. 

Eight months later, I am still reasonably fit, the weight has not returned and I can still enjoy a eating and drinking. 

 

 

Weight is everything!

[crouchpeter]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:11 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Do they still do radical prostatectomies? If so don't get one of those. Ruined my life.

No sex life still beats the alternative!

[Pumpuynarak]

On 12/27/2022 at 2:21 PM, garmat said:

I had a successful TURP operation at St. Mary’s 4 months ago. Dr. katowat(sp) the urologist was excellent. A bit uncomfortable having to keep a catheter for 8 days following procedure, but worth it. 140,000B included everything. Money well spent.

PM sent.

[simon43]

On 12/30/2022 at 3:57 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes total removal, and horrible side effects. I'd never go that route if I could go back.

From extensive discussions with Dr Google, I understand that the 2 main side-effects are ED and incontinence, but that the severity depends on whether the cancer is wholly contained within the prostate, or also affects the nerves nearby.  My lumps are wholly within my prostate, and I have had BPH and problems in peeing for many years.  I finished with sexual relationships years ago and I live alone and teach online, within 3 metres of a toilet!

 

For me, the urinary incontinence would be the bigger issue, but it seems that for most men, this problem all but stops after a few months, and with kegal exercises and a healthy body weight/fitness etc.

 

If I went down the radiation route without an RP, it would apparently make surgery more difficult if the cancer were to return.  I am realistic and expect my cancer to return at some time in the future after I've had the RP - perhaps 5, 10 or 15 years later (if I'm still alive).  So, if that were the case, radiation/chemo treatment would still be an option.

 

If you're in a sexual relationship, then the likely ED problems after an RP could indeed make it an unsatisfactory choice.

 

[BigStar]

On 12/30/2022 at 2:13 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I used to walk a great deal. Made no difference to my hypertension, or my prostate.

Not sure if your walking was really exercise. Not unlikely it was often just slow walking and pausing. The lack of real exercise, plus your diet, gave you the hypertension and pre-diabetes, risk factors both counteracting what walking you did. So, no reason to think it would make any difference. It may not have anyway, as you'd like to believe, but covering all the bases puts you more on the side of probability.

[Mark Nothing]

My Father and all his tennis buddies are in good shape and have been loyal customers for decades of all the bph latest and greatest procedures and tablets with intermittent benefit that slowly dissipate and the BPH returns.

 

They have an excellent diet free of fast food and they all drink tap water.  We have all seen the hard water deposits building up on glass shower doors.  Some authors believe this is one of the main culprits of bph.  The silver/gray cement like sediment remaining at the bottom of my water distiller machine is like concrete.

 

There are 130 parts per million dissolved solids in the thai tap water.  Bottled water varies from 100 to 1,000 total dissolved solids.  A total dissolved solids meter can provide the readout. 

 

Drinking pure water free of any inorganic minerals was one key component in clearing up my bph.  My gray hair also dissipated.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Not sure if your walking was really exercise. Not unlikely it was often just slow walking and pausing. The lack of real exercise, plus your diet, gave you the hypertension and pre-diabetes, risk factors both counteracting what walking you did. So, no reason to think it would make any difference. It may not have anyway, as you'd like to believe, but covering all the bases puts you more on the side of probability.

55555555555555555555

Talk about leaping to conclusions. You need no other exercise, LOL.

Before I got prostate cancer I'd walk for hours, or walk instead of taking the bus. Not forgetting that nurses walk miles a day as part of the job.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

For me, the urinary incontinence would be the bigger issue, but it seems that for most men, this problem all but stops after a few months,

Feel lucky? Didn't stop for me, and my cancer contained and removed entirely. The ED was easily solved with little pills. That was the least of my problems with the op.

I also had problems with the join in the utrethra growing and obstructing the passage. Had to go back for further surgery to remedy that and had to use in out catheter to keep it open.

Other problems like having that <deleted> catheter for a while both times.

Since my op there are alternatives that I'd have rather used. If I could go back I'd use hormones instead, but never ever radical surgery. Potential problems with every option though.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

 

 

We have all seen the hard water deposits building up on glass shower doors.  Some authors believe this is one of the main culprits of bph.  The silver/gray cement like sediment remaining at the bottom of my water distiller machine is like concrete.

 

Don't you think if that was the cause they would have discovered that already, you know, bladder analysis whilst alive or autopsy

[JimmyJ]

@Pumpuynarak

 

"...the meds i'm taking are not really doing anything positive."

 

What meds were you taking?

[MrMuddle]

On 12/27/2022 at 7:27 PM, Wardp said:

So what tests are needed pre surgery? Apart from psa and digital exam, do es an ultrasound give the urologist enough info etc?

I had an MRI scan which confirmed the prostate cancer.

[JimmyJ]

On 12/27/2022 at 5:20 PM, PeVee1st said:

I currently take a 400mg tablet called Tamulosin daily and it has kept my enlarged prostrate in good order for the last 12 years.

 

Side effects?

[Dart12]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

Side effects?

You can also try cardoxa plus finasteride.