POLL: Do you think Brexit is a success or failure?

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Again, a good faith attempt to convince anyone should include a cogent argument as opposed to a straight declaration of something contentious as fact. You didn't do that and just ignore your responsibility to do so.

I posted an opinion and it appears I have hit a raw nerve with you 

your welcome to post your own opinion with a opposite viewpoint of what I posted

Otherwise tough titty

Edited January 3, 2023 by vinny41
typo

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I posted an opinion and it appears I have hit a raw nerve with you 

your welcome to post your own opinion with a opposite viewpoint of what I posted

Otherwise tough titty

The only thing that hits a nerve is failure to support assertions with links to evidence or rational arguments. Personal attacks don't faze me so save your fingers.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I dont think the EU is going to welcome back the UK any time soon 

They will wait for a period of 5-10 years to see if the % of rejoiners remain the same or increase or decrease

 

I agree

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

They will also want a review of why large area's of the country voted to leave and what was the root cause and can that mindset be reversed if it was they felt left behind due to insufficient funding in jobs,housing,schools and infrastructure

That is less likely in my opinion. Your later post - quoting the LSE blog - that support in the region of 60%+ over several years would probably be sufficient for the EU to open negotiations on re-entry 

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Will the remainers on this forum support a freeze on funding on areas that voted remain and redirect all funding to the areas that voted leave and that funding remain in place until there is equality in all areas of the UK

ALL funding? I imagine all voters in the negatively affected areas wouldn't be happy with that regardless of how they voted.

 

Imo there will always be some inequality.

 

I don't think that will be necessary but, personally speaking, I feel that investment in infrastructure projects outside of London is long overdue. (The culling of HS2 would free up some funds but all that's for another thread).

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Most of the posts I have seen remainers on this forum wouldn't support such a policy

Again, debatable 

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

 and feel that leaver voters should be sent to purgatory and remain there for ever becuase of the way they voted.

We'll, it would only be fair????

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Also the EU will want Scottish Independence question resolved before any thoughts of letting the UK join the EU accession waiting list

 

I agree

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

 

How is the title of the article - "Two years after Brexit 'got done', poll shows many Britons want new referendum" in any way misleading as you infer?

 

The fact remains that 66% of people polled for this survey said that they wanted another referendum, of whom 96% wanted it within 20 years.

 

See also my reply to @Vinny41.

Wait , the question asked was whether there should be another referendum or not , the question WASNT "should the UK re-join the E.U or not".

  People who respect the democratic vote may feel that the public should be asked again in the future , remainers are using that question and changing it around to make it appear they want to leave the EU 

   Saying that there should be a referendum isn't giving an indication of how you would vote 

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wait , the question asked was whether there should be another referendum or not , the question WASNT "should the UK re-join the E.U or not".

  People who respect the democratic vote may feel that the public should be asked again in the future , remainers are using that question and changing it around to make it appear they want to leave the EU 

   Saying that there should be a referendum isn't giving an indication of how you would vote 

Which might make sense were it not for multiple polls indicating the public are moving away from Brexit support.

If people thought the UK should remain outside of the EU they would not be supporting another referendum, they’d simply say it’s done and dusted.

 

Stop pretending otherwise.

 

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wait , the question asked was whether there should be another referendum or not , the question WASNT "should the UK re-join the E.U or not".

  People who respect the democratic vote may feel that the public should be asked again in the future , remainers are using that question and changing it around to make it appear they want to leave the EU 

   Saying that there should be a referendum isn't giving an indication of how you would vote 

You are correct Here is the link

https://savanta.com/knowledge-centre/published-polls/brexit-poll-the-independent-1-january-2023/

Table 1 Q1. If there was a referendum now on whether the UK should or should not join the EU, how likely would you be to vote on a scale from 0 to 10, where 0 means you are certain NOT to vote and 10 means you are absolutely CERTAIN to vote?

58% said they were  Certain to vote

In Table 2 51% indicated they would vote to Join the EU

Stay out of the EU 40%
Undecided 9%
Prefer not to say 1%

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

In Table 2 51% indicated they would vote to Join the EU

 

 

That is too close to call though , 51 % ?

They would have to have yet another referendum to make sure and try and get a clear majority

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is too close to call though , 51 % ?

They would have to have yet another referendum to make sure and try and get a clear majority

Oh dear, you wouldn’t respect the vote then…

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is too close to call though , 51 % ?

They would have to have yet another referendum to make sure and try and get a clear majority

Personally I don't think the EU would accept an eu accession request based on 51% for with 40% against and 9% undecided 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Personally I don't think the EU would accept an eu accession request based on 51% for with 40% against and 9% undecided 

People might casually say they want to re-join the E.U , but when they take into consideration all the chaos and confusion and the delays  it took four years to leave  and it may take four years of a similar situation to re join , they may decide its not worth all the hassle about re-joining 

[vinny41]

For 39 Table 39 Q8. When do you think, if at all, there should next be a referendum on whether or not the UK should re-join or stay out of the European Union?

Results are

In the next five years 24%

In the next 6-10 years 11%

In the next 11-20 years 4%

In more than 20 years' time 4%

Never 24%

Dont Know 11%

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People might casually say they want to re-join the E.U , but when they take into consideration all the chaos and confusion and the delays  it took four years to leave  and it may take four years of a similar situation to re join , they may decide its not worth all the hassle about re-joining 

Lol, brexiteers make mess from leaving so people don't want to rejoin?

[RayC]

19 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wait , the question asked was whether there should be another referendum or not , the question WASNT "should the UK re-join the E.U or not".

  People who respect the democratic vote may feel that the public should be asked again in the future , remainers are using that question and changing it around to make it appear they want to leave the EU 

   Saying that there should be a referendum isn't giving an indication of how you would vote 

Err .... You sure that you are replying to the right post (and person)?????

[RayC]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People might casually say they want to re-join the E.U , but when they take into consideration all the chaos and confusion and the delays  it took four years to leave  and it may take four years of a similar situation to re join , they may decide its not worth all the hassle about re-joining 

They might but on the other hand they might not.

 

Obviously there would have to be preparation - and maybe, a transition period - but it is usually easier to destroy barriers than create them.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Lol, brexiteers make mess from leaving so people don't want to rejoin?

Who was it that tried to get the result overturned and keep the UK in the E.U ?

   Who got trounced at the next election because they didn't accept the democratic referendum result ?

   Leavers or Remainers ?

[Bluespunk]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Who was it that tried to get the result overturned and keep the UK in the E.U ?

   Who got trounced at the next election because they didn't accept the democratic referendum result ?

   Leavers or Remainers ?

This coming from someone who earlier posted a 51% vote for joining the eu wouldn’t be an acceptable result. 
 

Hypocrisy much?

[billd766]

On 1/4/2023 at 7:09 AM, stevenl said:

Lol, brexiteers make mess from leaving so people don't want to rejoin?

There were 2 sides involved in Brexit, the UK and the EU.

 

It was/is obvious that the EU would make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave to deter other countries from doing the same.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There were 2 sides involved in Brexit, the UK and the EU.

 

It was/is obvious that the EU would make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave to deter other countries from doing the same.

The EU position was the position of its member States.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

There were 2 sides involved in Brexit, the UK and the EU.

 

It was/is obvious that the EU would make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave to deter other countries from doing the same.

Problem in the whole process is that the EU has been very clear, the UK has flip-flopped all directions.

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Problem in the whole process is that the EU has been very clear, the UK has flip-flopped all directions.

A pathetic attempt at justification more than a problem. Anyway, what can you expect from a flip-flop remainer PM like Theresa May?

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A pathetic attempt at justification more than a problem. Anyway, what can you expect from a flip-flop remainer PM like Theresa May?

Yes, thanks for admitting the UK has flip-flopped all directions.

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, thanks for admitting the UK has flip-flopped all directions.

Had a referendum, voted to leave and Left .

Got there in the end 

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, thanks for admitting the UK has flip-flopped all directions.

No problem.

[Mac Mickmanus]

From the poll results 

More people living in the UK think that Brexit has been a success than those living in the UK who think its been a failure .

  Although that figure is dwarfed by people who don't live in the UK who opine that Brexit is a failure .

  Ex-pats living abroad are ten times more likely to think Brexit is a failure compared to people living (and living it ) in the UK (who thinks that its a success) 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Mac Mickmanus

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

From the poll results 

More people living in the UK think that Brexit has been a success than those living in the UK who think its been a failure .

  Although that figure is dwarfed by people who don't live in the UK who opine that Brexit is a failure .

  Ex-pats living abroad are ten times more likely to think Brexit is a failure compared to people living (and living it ) in the UK 

6 to 5.

 

Expats are 100% more likely to have escaped the mess post Brexit is.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Had a referendum, voted to leave and Left .

Got there in the end 

As usual unrelated trolling.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

As usual unrelated trolling.

It is on topic and a relevant reply to your claim that the UK "flip flopped " about Brexit .

 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

From the poll results 

More people living in the UK think that Brexit has been a success than those living in the UK who think its been a failure .

  Although that figure is dwarfed by people who don't live in the UK who opine that Brexit is a failure .

  Ex-pats living abroad are ten times more likely to think Brexit is a failure compared to people living (and living it ) in the UK (who thinks that its a success) 

Utterly irrelevant. 
 

The facts which you don’t like speak for themselves. 
 

Brexit is damaging the uks economy. 

[RayC]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

There were 2 sides involved in Brexit, the UK and the EU.

 

It was/is obvious that the EU would make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave to deter other countries from doing the same.

Playing Devil's Advocate and accepting what you say, it still doesn't absolve successive UK governments of blame.

 

Surely this possibility must have occurred to the UK negotiators and they should have prepared for it? (Hope for the best, prepare for the worse).

 

Instead what appeared to happen was that when the UK negotiators tipped up in Brussels for the first meeting, Davis said, "Right then, business as usual except that we won't pay anything, we don't implement any more EU laws and we'll get rid of the few of the existing ones as well". When, unsurprisingly, Barnier said, "I'm afraid that doesn't work for us", Davis looked nonplussed at this reaction and had no idea what to do next.

 

Exaggerated for effect (but not overly).

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

Playing Devil's Advocate and accepting what you say, it still doesn't absolve successive UK governments of blame.

 

Surely this possibility must have occurred to the UK negotiators and they should have prepared for it? (Hope for the best, prepare for the worse).

 

Instead what appeared to happen was that when the UK negotiators tipped up in Brussels for the first meeting, Davis said, "Right then, business as usual except that we won't pay anything, we don't implement any more EU laws and we'll get rid of the few of the existing ones as well". When, unsurprisingly, Barnier said, "I'm afraid that doesn't work for us", Davis looked nonplussed at this reaction and had no idea what to do next.

 

Exaggerated for effect (but not overly).

What happened next ?