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Corona "Over-Vaccination" ???

swissie

By swissie
in Health and Medicine

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swissie Platinum Member

swissie

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Ever since this Corona Virus hit, every 4 Months I got a vaccination. So I accumulated 6 Corona shots in total. The last on June 1st 2022.
Now, they will give me no more "boosters" shots. Claiming that I may be "Over-Vaccinated".


- Is there something like "Over-Vaccination" with regard to Corona?


The only thing I can reliably gather is that after 6 months, the protection-level of practically all of the Vaccines commonly administered, are fast approaching ZERO.
Under these circumstances, how can anyone be "Over-Vaccinated"? Quite the opposite, I find. After 6 months everybody is walking around "unprotected".


- I have asked the Health Ministry of my home-country. They replied that all of this still basically is "a grey area" with no conclusive answers. In other words: "We have no idea what's going on".


After 3 years of Corona, can anyone supply some "conclusive" answers with regard to the above question(s)?

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habuspasha Advanced Member

habuspasha

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29 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

OP, you may want to read this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9167431/

Thank you for this.  I wanted to get a second bivalent booster shot before my trip to Thailand the end of this month.  (I had my first bivalent (5th Moderna) last Sept, before my last trip.)  The pharmacist wouldn't give it me.  She said the CDC (I'm in NYC) didn't recommend it.    I called the CDC for clarification but so far they haven't gotten back to me.

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swissie Platinum Member

swissie

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40 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

OP, you may want to read this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9167431/

 

Thanks for the link.
But quote: "The study showed that immune function among vaccinated individuals 8 months after the administration of two doses of COVID-19 vaccine was lower than that among the unvaccinated individuals".


= This can not possibly be accurate.
----------------------------------
All others: Keep it coming, including "links". Thanks.

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Dcheech Silver Member

Dcheech

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4 hours ago, swissie said:


- Is there something like "Over-Vaccination" with regard to Corona?

Could be, Corona is a pretty good beer but too much is never a good thing. As for covid vaccinations there is a hospital less than 5 minutes away which will give me a booster, my last a bivalent was 5 months back. I have never heard of them refusing anyone. Still when creating OP's, hospitals will do anything you type.
Cheers

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swissie Platinum Member

swissie

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1 hour ago, Lorry said:

OP's reasoning is a bit faulty in 2 respects:

 

1. Protection against death or severe illness does not go to zero after 4 or 6 or whatever months. It seems to last quite a while. As covid is just 3 years old, nobody really knows. 

Protection against infection does go to zero within 4-6 months.  You can be infected,  but won't get very sick. 

 

There are 2 kinds of immunity:  humoral (by antibodies) and cellular (by T-cells). 

 

Antibodies can easily be measured,  you can measure the overall quantity and you can measure the neutralizing antibodies. 9 months after my 4th antigen contact (3 vaccines,  1 infection) I checked both,  the results were very good. So I decided to wait with the next vaccination.  Vejthani Hospital, 2500 B. Camillian Hospital cannot check neutralizing antibodies, only quantitative antibodies,  900 baht. 

 

T-cells are not routinely measured.  But even if antibodies are low, T-cells is what gives you long lasting immunity ("memory cells").

 

2. Yes, there is something like "over-vaccination". Your immune system can get used to the antigen (ie the virus or it's  parts) and not react anymore.  This happens easier if vaccinations came in quick succession.  4 months is the absolute minimum. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

OP's reasoning is a bit faulty in 2 respects:

 

1. Protection against death or severe illness does not go to zero after 4 or 6 or whatever months. It seems to last quite a while. As covid is just 3 years old, nobody really knows. 

Protection against infection does go to zero within 4-6 months.  You can be infected,  but won't get very sick. 

 

There are 2 kinds of immunity:  humoral (by antibodies) and cellular (by T-cells). 

 

Antibodies can easily be measured,  you can measure the overall quantity and you can measure the neutralizing antibodies. 9 months after my 4th antigen contact (3 vaccines,  1 infection) I checked both,  the results were very good. So I decided to wait with the next vaccination.  Vejthani Hospital, 2500 B. Camillian Hospital cannot check neutralizing antibodies, only quantitative antibodies,  900 baht. 

 

T-cells are not routinely measured.  But even if antibodies are low, T-cells is what gives you long lasting immunity ("memory cells").

 

2. Yes, there is something like "over-vaccination". Your immune system can get used to the antigen (ie the virus or it's  parts) and not react anymore.  This happens easier if vaccinations came in quick succession.  4 months is the absolute minimum. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

OP's reasoning is a bit faulty in 2 respects:

 

1. Protection against death or severe illness does not go to zero after 4 or 6 or whatever months. It seems to last quite a while. As covid is just 3 years old, nobody really knows. 

Protection against infection does go to zero within 4-6 months.  You can be infected,  but won't get very sick. 

 

There are 2 kinds of immunity:  humoral (by antibodies) and cellular (by T-cells). 

 

Antibodies can easily be measured,  you can measure the overall quantity and you can measure the neutralizing antibodies. 9 months after my 4th antigen contact (3 vaccines,  1 infection) I checked both,  the results were very good. So I decided to wait with the next vaccination.  Vejthani Hospital, 2500 B. Camillian Hospital cannot check neutralizing antibodies, only quantitative antibodies,  900 baht. 

 

T-cells are not routinely measured.  But even if antibodies are low, T-cells is what gives you long lasting immunity ("memory cells").

 

2. Yes, there is something like "over-vaccination". Your immune system can get used to the antigen (ie the virus or it's  parts) and not react anymore.  This happens easier if vaccinations came in quick succession.  4 months is the absolute minimum. 

 

Thanks, so far the best explanation and elaboration as far as this is concerned. Impressive!

 

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allanos Silver Member

allanos

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The vaccination causing the heart and brain

inflammation appears to be as a result of the

mRNA kind of vaccines, a more synthetic (radical)

product compared with traditional methodology.

 

Nevertheless, the overall results of all of the

marketed medical products appear to have

had an overwhelmingly positive statistical outcome.

 

'Excess' deaths over the last two years, which

seem to have increased compared with years

leading up to the pandemic, do not seem to have been caused by the vaccines, according to health authorities,

and are ascribed to a number of other causes.

 

I believe that a great deal more research is going

to be required before unequivocal pronouncements

can be made as to the effectiveness of the various

programs which were instituted by the medical establishment. 

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KhunLA Star Member

KhunLA

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5 hours ago, swissie said:

Thanks for the link.
But quote: "The study showed that immune function among vaccinated individuals 8 months after the administration of two doses of COVID-19 vaccine was lower than that among the unvaccinated individuals".


= This can not possibly be accurate.
----------------------------------
All others: Keep it coming, including "links". Thanks.

Read and watched warnings of vaccine and immune system in the very beginning and one reason I'm unvax'd.

 

Nice to think some people are waking up.

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swm59nj Gold Member

swm59nj

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It still is a grey area.  Unfortunately there still is no definitive medical answer regarding the amount of vaccines you need. 
And the health issues from the vaccines need more research also.  
The best thing you can do is listen to a health professional you trust at this point. 
 

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PattayaKevin Senior Member

PattayaKevin

Posted
Posted

I just received my 5th vaccine in Thailand plus I have 4 more vaccines in the United States for a total of 9. Never had covid, only side effect from the vaccine was a slight headache from the first one. 

falang07 Silver Member

falang07

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, PattayaKevin said:

I just received my 5th vaccine in Thailand plus I have 4 more vaccines in the United States for a total of 9. Never had covid, only side effect from the vaccine was a slight headache from the first one. 

the pharma industry must love you ????

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Lee65 Advanced Member

Lee65

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Posted

"After 3 years of Corona, can anyone supply some "conclusive" answers with regard to the above question(s)?"

 

Well you've come to the right place for conclusive answers!

Pretty sure nobody here is gonna provide "conclusive" answers.  

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Lee65 Advanced Member

Lee65

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1 hour ago, PattayaKevin said:

I just received my 5th vaccine in Thailand plus I have 4 more vaccines in the United States for a total of 9. Never had covid, only side effect from the vaccine was a slight headache from the first one. 

Well, there goes swissie's Guinness record ...

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Bkk Brian Star Member

Bkk Brian

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lee65 said:

This might be helpful:

Kaufman Institute for Coincidence

Yea right:

 

Watch this video to find out more about the new and innovative research done by the Kaufman Institute for Coincidence, and their contribution to the field of medicine. Warning: this video is satire. Back in the old days, I wouldn't have to explain but because of the tremendous amount of deceit and gaslighting in the media in 2023, I feel compelled to specify. I'm trying to reach people with comedy, where logic has failed. Thank you to everyone who has shared this video. It's already gotten more eyeballs than I would have ever expected. Thanks for your support!!!

 

It then goes on to ask for money contributions......lol

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Sheryl Star Member

Sheryl

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11 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

OP, you may want to read this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9167431/

 

The above is not an article. It is a letter to the editor from soemone who has no expertise in the field of immunology.

 

It is also factually incorrect and misrepresents the article it is referring to.

 

The Lancet study mentioned described  how antibodies produced after COVID-19 vaccination decrease over time.  It did not  examine immunity to infectious diseases in general after COVID vaccination and neither it nor any other reputable scientific study found any indication that  COVID-19 vaccines weaken the immune system.

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Lorry Platinum Member

Lorry

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My post disappeared,  so here it is again:

(

 

OP's reasoning is a bit faulty in 2 respects:

 

1. Protection against death or severe illness does not go to zero after 4 or 6 or whatever months. It seems to last quite a while. As covid is just 3 years old, nobody really knows. 

Protection against infection does go to zero within 4-6 months.  You can be infected,  but won't get very sick. 

 

There are 2 kinds of immunity:  humoral (by antibodies) and cellular (by T-cells). 

 

Antibodies can easily be measured,  you can measure the overall quantity and you can measure the neutralizing antibodies. 9 months after my 4th antigen contact (3 vaccines,  1 infection) I checked both,  the results were very good. So I decided to wait with the next vaccination.  Vejthani Hospital, 2500 B. Camillian Hospital cannot check neutralizing antibodies, only quantitative antibodies,  900 baht. 

 

T-cells are not routinely measured.  But even if antibodies are low, T-cells is what gives you long lasting immunity ("memory cells").

 

2. Yes, there is something like "over-vaccination". Your immune system can get used to the antigen (ie the virus or it's  parts) and not react anymore.  This happens easier if vaccinations came in quick succession.  4 months is the absolute minimum. 

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Sheryl Star Member

Sheryl

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@swissie

 

You are not being told you are :"over vaccinated" and no, there is no such thing and no known adverse effects from receiving more than the recommended number of COVID vaccines.

 

What you are being told -- accurately -- is that you have had more than the currently recommended number of vaccines and according to Ministry of Public Health guidelines are not eligible for an additional  booster at this time. This is true and not just in Thailand. No country or public health authority currently recommends more than 4 vaccinations (2 primary and 2 booster) and these only for certain risk groups (including everyone over 65). 

 

However there is one confounding factor in Thailand which is that the Thai system recognizes some vaccinations which other countries do not. So depending on what type of vaccination you had, you might not be considered to have had 6 doses in some countries.

 

It is not correct that protection is "near zero" after 6 months. You are confusing the presence of circulating antibodies  with overall  protection. Antibodies -- which do decrease fairly quickly after both COVID vaccination and COVID infection - are only one part of the immune system, called humeral immunity. The other part is what is called cell-mediated immunity and this is much longer lasting. Which is why vaccinated people continue to be protected against severe disease and death long after they no longer have circulating antibodies.

 

Knowledge in this area is continuing to evolve, and there is also the aspect of there being (in some countries, not in Thailand yet) newer vaccines with specific effectiveness against Omicron strain.

 

Best I can tell you is that if aged over 65 and at least 4 of the doses you received were either Astra-Zeneca or an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) there is no need for a booster until/unless you have access to the new bivalent vaccine.

 

 

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Lorry Platinum Member

Lorry

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9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

no, there is no such thing

If you are talking about covid,  you are right because it just hasn't been studied long enough. 

 

For other vaccines,  "over-vaccination" does exist.  Prime example is probably tetanus. Many people got so many shots that with the next booster they get impressive local reactions.  Nothing serious,  though.

Whether this can happen with covid vaccines,  nobody knows (yet).

 

The other aspect is the possibility of the immune system "getting used" to antigen exposure. Immunologists fear it might happen. Whether this can happen with covid vaccines,  nobody knows (yet).

 

Lastly, there is the theory of the "original sin" of the immune system. Meaning,  too many vaccinations may hinder vaccines against a new variant. This is disputed amongst immunologists and probably too technical for OP.

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Sheryl Star Member

Sheryl

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Posted
11 hours ago, swissie said:

Thanks for the link.
But quote: "The study showed that immune function among vaccinated individuals 8 months after the administration of two doses of COVID-19 vaccine was lower than that among the unvaccinated individuals".


= This can not possibly be accurate.
----------------------------------
 

It is not accurate. And the referenced study did not show that. Please see my response.

crouchpeter Advanced Member

crouchpeter

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, habuspasha said:

Thank you for this.  I wanted to get a second bivalent booster shot before my trip to Thailand the end of this month.  (I had my first bivalent (5th Moderna) last Sept, before my last trip.)  The pharmacist wouldn't give it me.  She said the CDC (I'm in NYC) didn't recommend it.    I called the CDC for clarification but so far they haven't gotten back to me.

Just get vaccinated for OCD!

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JetCruza Rookie Member

JetCruza

Posted
Posted

I’m with Swissie on this, although I tend to space my boosters as evenly as possible every 6 months.  I rely a lot on the Singapore Ministry of Health (MOH) for getting up to date and balanced advice on this matter, and basically what they are saying, for the time being, to be considered up to date with your COVID 19 vaccinations, you should get a booster 5 - 12 months after your last shot (refer to the SG MOH web page: https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination ).

 

I don’t think you can be “over-vaxxed” to the point of too much vaccine causing health problems, but at this time, take the balanced and practical view, read as much expert advice as you can and then come up with your own program that fits in with this advice.  I had 3 Pfizer shots in Singapore in 2021 and since arriving in Thailand, I’ve had 2 Moderna boosters, both of which I paid for.  I note that most of my friends and colleagues are quite relaxed about their vaccination status, and don’t see the need to keep up to date - that’s their choice, but I prefer to be more proactive in managing my health..

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Lorry Platinum Member

Lorry

Posted
Posted

 

21 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

spod-1061141535-33-1.png?v=1671128899&wi

It's endemic,  not pandemic, at least in several populations targeted by the language of this shirt.

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