Many Pattaya Restaurant Owners Still Suffering from Financial Problems, Hope Chinese Tourists are the Solution

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, San Fran Dan said:

The only ones making money are the big Chinese buffets boats  floating in the bay , and hotels losing money by the hordes at breakfast 

Utter nonsense.

[newnative]

     Well, this can't be right.   Haven't we heard ad infinitum from our select, super-observant, always on-target forum commentators that Chinese tourists in Thailand only eat at Chinese-owned restaurants?  Or, 7-11?  That poor Thai restaurant owner quoted in the article might as well stop standing in her doorway waiting for the Chinese tourists.   And, let's not even get into the heartbreak of the Thai hotel owners.  

[Leaver]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:09 PM, newnative said:

     Well, this can't be right.   Haven't we heard ad infinitum from our select, super-observant, always on-target forum commentators that Chinese tourists in Thailand only eat at Chinese-owned restaurants?  Or, 7-11?  That poor Thai restaurant owner quoted in the article might as well stop standing in her doorway waiting for the Chinese tourists.   And, let's not even get into the heartbreak of the Thai hotel owners.  

 

You missed the part where she said the restaurant was going broke without the Chinese tours.

 

I am sure a Chinese tour operator will approach her soon and tell her what price he wants in order to bring his tours to her restaurant.  If she can't meet the price, no problem, I'm sure he will tell her his company will wait for her to go broke and then they will buy her restaurant for peanuts. 

 

As I have said before, Thailand wanted the Chinese, Thailand got the Chinese. 

[Leaver]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:44 AM, BigStar said:

The Golden Egg Layers ran out o' them golden eggs more than a decade ago,

 

So how are the businesses here that cater to the golden egg layers going to do here in the future if  golden egg layers are in short supply?

[BigStar]

55 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

So how are the businesses here that cater to the golden egg layers going to do here in the future if  golden egg layers are in short supply?

 Is there no tutorial anywhere for you to study on basic market economics so that you could just figure out the answers to your questions for yourself and needn't ask here?

[newnative]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

You missed the part where she said the restaurant was going broke without the Chinese tours.

 

I am sure a Chinese tour operator will approach her soon and tell her what price he wants in order to bring his tours to her restaurant.  If she can't meet the price, no problem, I'm sure he will tell her his company will wait for her to go broke and then they will buy her restaurant for peanuts. 

 

As I have said before, Thailand wanted the Chinese, Thailand got the Chinese. 

     Wrong.  (Oh, dear, not again.)   I didn't miss anything.   Once again, your reading skills are lacking.  What she said was:

"We hope Chinese tourists can help us to survive from financial problems, as seafood is also popular with them,” Mrs. Premwadee noted.

     She also said:

"Many of the restaurants yet to fully recover are seafood venues dependent on Chinese tourists.”

 

     So, with both quotes, she said 'Chinese tourists', not your 'Chinese tours'.  Not that Chinese tours, and tours from other countries, don't also support many Thai businesses.  Of course, they do.  But, that distinction negates yet another one of your half-baked scenarios imagining yet again the demise of a business, based on nothing but your pessimistic outlook.  

      The reality is that in 2019, Mrs. Premwadee would have been more likely to be serving independent Chinese travelers, paying her menu prices, rather than those on group tours, perhaps eating at a discount.  Independent Chinese travelers were 61% in 2019 vs. 39% of Chinese on group tours.   

     

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

But, that distinction negates yet another one of your half-baked scenarios imagining yet again the demise of a business, based on nothing but your pessimistic outlook.  

Leaver constantly resorts to the Just In Case Fallacy to build a little fantasy then demands it be refuted, a resort to Russell's Teapot. Just trollish rhetoric. Posters should stop falling for it.

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

The reality is that in 2019, Mrs. Premwadee would have been more likely to be serving independent Chinese travelers, paying her menu prices, rather than those on group tours, perhaps eating at a discount.  Independent Chinese travelers were 61% in 2019 vs. 39% of Chinese on group tours.   

 

That would mean she's trying to survive without 40% of the Chinese market. 

 

The reality is, she needs the Chinese tour groups. 

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, BigStar said:

 Is there no tutorial anywhere for you to study on basic market economics so that you could just figure out the answers to your questions for yourself and needn't ask here?

 

AN member newative has clearly stated on this forum that "basic market economics" (supply and demand)  do not apply to Pattaya.

 

You have also posted of your disbelief in the "Pattaya pie" theory that the wedges can be so thin and so small, yet, every business still makes money.

 

It seems that you can build 10,000 more condo's, build 10 new shopping malls, and build 500 more bars and restaurants here, yet this would have absolutely ZERO impact on the housing, retail, and hospitality markets here. 

[BigStar]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

AN member newative has clearly stated on this forum that "basic market economics" (supply and demand)  do not apply to Pattaya.

Whatever you say @newnative said usually isn't what he really said, just a distortion. He can respond.

 

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You have also posted of your disbelief in the "Pattaya pie" theory that the wedges can be so thin and so small, yet, every business still makes money.

That's an inevitable, ignorant misunderstanding of what I said and a distortion. Again: can't you find a basic course in economics to study and stop trolling and wasting our time here?

 

<further nonsense snipped>

 

[Rimmer]

A post speculating about other members circumstances and business interest has been removed

[Leaver]

39 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Whatever you say @newnative said usually isn't what he really said, just a distortion. He can respond.

 

You guys post in unison, so you can speak for him. 

 

41 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Again: can't you find a basic course in economics to study

There is an over supply here in housing, retail and hospitality.

 

You say it has no effect on the markets here.  Perhaps it's you who needs to study some basic economics. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

AN member newative has clearly stated on this forum that "basic market economics" (supply and demand)  do not apply to Pattaya.

 

You have also posted of your disbelief in the "Pattaya pie" theory that the wedges can be so thin and so small, yet, every business still makes money.

 

It seems that you can build 10,000 more condo's, build 10 new shopping malls, and build 500 more bars and restaurants here, yet this would have absolutely ZERO impact on the housing, retail, and hospitality markets here. 

    Newnative here.  Please show me where I have stated:  "basic market economics" (supply and demand)  do not apply to Pattaya."    The reality is I believe just the opposite, and have said so numerous times.  To many of this and not enough of that, supply and demand will eventually sort it out.  So, once again for the hard of hearing, I believe in supply and demand--for Pattaya and anywhere else--and I also believe in 'build a better mousetrap'--also stated numerous times.

     The confusion may stem from my statement that when I sell a condo, I am not competing with the thousands of other condos on the market also for sale.  Perhaps this stuck in your head.  This is true whether the condo I am selling is in Pattaya, Thailand or Reston, Virginia--where I also sold a number of condos--or anywhere else. 

     I am generally only competing with condos for sale that are in my same area, are of similar size, and are in the same ballpark price-wise.   A buyer looking for a 2 bedroom seaview in north Pattaya likely will not waste time looking at non-seaview studios in Jomtien.   Once you have your basics, you usually further weed out with things like view, age of the condo, number of units in the project, foreign quota, quality of the unit, quality of the project, room plan, project amenities, etc., etc.  My partner and I do try to 'build a better mousetrap' with the properties we sell.  

    Even though I have explained this, you don't seem to grasp it.  I mentioned buying because it's the same thing.  When I go out to buy a condo, I am also not looking at the thousands of condos on the market for sale.   The same things I mentioned with selling also enter into the buying experience.   You always mention the 'thousands' of condos for sale but, in reality, there were less than a half dozen realistic choices with the last condo my partner and I purchased in Pattaya.   

     Think back to when you were looking for a rental condo.  Likely you had, at a minimum, an area in mind where you wanted to live, a size of condo that you preferred, and a price range.  Just those three things eliminated lots of rental listings--wrong area, wrong size, wrong price.   From what was left, you likely zeroed in on those that also met some of your other wants and needs.  Perhaps a gym.  Perhaps garage parking.  Perhaps a big pool.  Perhaps a seaview.  Perhaps a big balcony.  From many rental choices, you likely narrowed them down to a few that suited best.  

    Having said all that, there is certainly likely more supply, and perhaps less demand, for the many small, non-seaview condos that have been built, some in less than stellar locations.  But, again, those condos are still only competing with similar ones in the same area, not all the 'thousands'.

 

     

[wangotango]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:00 AM, Cake Monster said:

Wonder why that is !

I always only eat a single plate as I am not a glutton, nothing to do with saving money ????

 

 

 

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

To many of this and not enough of that, supply and demand will eventually sort it out. 

 

Correct, but in the case of "too many of this" that leads to empty buildings and commercial premises, does it not? 

 

Such derelict properties does not give the appearance of a thriving Pattaya local economy, and confidence in the market. 

 

7 minutes ago, newnative said:

I am also not looking at the thousands of condos on the market for sale. 

 

I am glad you finally have admitted there are thousands of condo's on the market here.  So on that basis, with thousands of condo's for sale here, how can Pattaya have a healthy property market?  Not to mention, they keep building more. 

 

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

there is certainly likely more supply, and perhaps less demand,

 

The fact that there is such an oversupply here tends to skew the demand figures, that's how much of an oversupply there is here.  As a renter, it's great.  Why would anyone buy with such a huge oversupply, and they keep building more.  Basically, you would be buying a depreciating asset, not an appreciating asset.  

 

Ahhhh, but location location I hear you say, well, they keep bulldozing old single story properties in prime locations and build 800 condo complexes.  Eg. The Base.  So, what does that do to "exclusive" location?     Not to mention, one day you have water views, which you paid for, then at a future date you are looking at building. 

[newnative]

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

That would mean she's trying to survive without 40% of the Chinese market. 

 

The reality is, she needs the Chinese tour groups. 

    No, it doesn't mean that at all--the article is unclear as to whether her restaurant caters to tour groups.  Also unclear is whether she '...needs the Chinese tour groups'.  She mentions Chinese tourists being important--which could be independent travelers, those in tours, or both.   She also mentions Russians, Koreans, Japanese, and domestic Thais.

    What it all means is that your negative scenario of her going bankrupt because she is supposedly dependent on Chinese tour operators, and they will force her to lose money and go out of business, and then snap up her business, is just your fantasy, not based on any 'reality', or anything in the article.   

    

[soi3eddie]

I'm currently in Krabi, tourism seems quite busy on the streets yet there are still many shops and restaurants permanently closed. Was talking with a western bar/restaurant owner tonight and he said that whilst western tourists have returned, they are now having one or two drinks instead of five. Indeed, while seated, three Russian ladies entered and looked at the menu then left, saying it was too expensive (it wasn't for those dining there). Can't see that it's much different in Pattaya or with different nationalities. Things have changed forever and may only get worse for a while from now. Chinese are unlikely to be the saviours. 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

23 hours ago, BigStar said:

 Is there no tutorial anywhere for you to study on basic market economics so that you could just figure out the answers to your questions for yourself and needn't ask here?

Increasingly in this world "market economics" has shifted. Costs have skyrocketed in most places, while affordability has decreased. For a business owner they cannot trim costs nor increase prices. Only one way to go. Closure. Sad, but true reality. There may be a few exceptions but not many. 

 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Correct, but in the case of "too many of this" that leads to empty buildings and commercial premises, does it not? 

 

Such derelict properties does not give the appearance of a thriving Pattaya local economy, and confidence in the market. 

 

 

I am glad you finally have admitted there are thousands of condo's on the market here.  So on that basis, with thousands of condo's for sale here, how can Pattaya have a healthy property market?  Not to mention, they keep building more. 

 

 

The fact that there is such an oversupply here tends to skew the demand figures, that's how much of an oversupply there is here.  As a renter, it's great.  Why would anyone buy with such a huge oversupply, and they keep building more.  Basically, you would be buying a depreciating asset, not an appreciating asset.  

 

Ahhhh, but location location I hear you say, well, they keep bulldozing old single story properties in prime locations and build 800 condo complexes.  Eg. The Base.  So, what does that do to "exclusive" location?     Not to mention, one day you have water views, which you paid for, then at a future date you are looking at building. 

       Did you find the ridiculous supply and demand quote that you said I posted?   Thought not.  Well, keep looking--but it's not there. 

      Yes, location, location, location.   Generally, building something nice and new will add value, not lessen it.  They bulldozed something old and ugly and built T21.  Which made the land around it more valuable and desirable, not less.  Which resulted in other nice new projects--like Ozo.  Which, in turn, resulted in other nice new projects--like Centre Point Space.  Which made the surrounding land even more valuable and desirable, not less.   Which is why those old 1 story buildings are now sitting on land that has become far too valuable for 1 story buildings--hence, more bulldozing.  

      I don't know how many condos are on the market here--I was using your example of you always claiming there are 'thousands', and, as you are always posting, since there are your supposed 'thousands', how can anybody ever sell a condo?    

      The buying and selling examples I gave still hold true, even if there are your 'thousand' condos for sale.  Why?  Because there are not a thousand condos for sale in this project or that project that are, perhaps, what a buyer is looking for.  There are more likely a handful in this project, a handful in that project.  If you have a specific budget and a list of wants and needs, that will always be the case.  If you have an unlimited budget and absolutely no wants or needs, then, yes, every condo for sale would be just the ticket.  

      As I've repeatedly said, buying is a process where the buyer's wants and needs will automatically narrow down the choices when they are plugged into the available stock.  Let's do this exercise and you'll see what I mean.  You be the real estate agent and I'll present you with 3 condo buyers.  See how many 'thousand' condos you can find for each of them to buy, using Hipflat.

   Client 1.  Young couple with 1 child.  Looking for a 2 bedroom/2 bath condo in Wong Amat,  Short walk to the beach.  Must be at least 70 sqm.  Project should have covered parking, a pool, and a gym.  Foreign quota a must, budget no more than 7MB.

   Client 2.  Single male, looking for 1 bedroom condo in north Pattaya.  Killer seaview and foreign quota a must, minimum 60 sqm, budget no more than 9MB.

   Client 3.  Single Thai female, looking for 1 bedroom condo in Jomtien.  Must be at least 35 sqm.  For privacy and security must be at least floor 3 or above.  Does not want pool view with noisy swimmers.  Project must be on or close to the baht bus line.  Wants a  project with lots of amenities built within the last 5 years.  Does not want to live in a mega project so only projects with 500 units or less.  Budget no more than 3MB.

    Remember, Hipflat often lists the same condo for sale more than once by different agents.  If you prefer, you can use realtor websites, instead.  Happy Hunting!

     

[MrJ2U]

I'd personally like to see as few Chinese tourists as possible. 

[BigStar]

14 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

Increasingly in this world "market economics" has shifted. Costs have skyrocketed in most places, while affordability has decreased. For a business owner they cannot trim costs nor increase prices. Only one way to go. Closure. Sad, but true reality. There may be a few exceptions but not many. 

 

Not inconsistent w/ dynamic market economics at all. Costs always rise and fall. Businesses adapt, close, and open. Sad for those who close, happy for those who open, at least while their market lasts. Lest we raise a straw man argument, gov'ts have always interfered, one way or the other, in the market to greater or lesser degrees. Of course, that interference affects businesses as well. If you're interested how nearly perfect free market might be managed w/ minimal interference, you could read David Friedman's The Machinery of Freedom. Fascinating discussion in there about a free market legal system in medieval Iceland.

[San Fran Dan]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:24 PM, BigStar said:

Utter nonsense.

I live in prantumak I see what goes on Chinese hotels making Chinese money , tell me what Thais are making money but Elites , Waiting….

[BigStar]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

You say it has no effect on the markets here.  Perhaps it's you who needs to study some basic economics. 

I said no such ridiculous thing, of course, just more lying. I also distinguish where an oversupply, or undersupply, may exist, which isn't actually everywhere or necessarily eternal--merely doomster rhetoric to enhance the awesome portentousness of their irrelevant prophecies.

 

But who cares? It's really a matter for those affected. Not something I lose sleep over or need to use to play that ol' scary music for trolling purposes. I roll w/ the flow.

[BigStar]

12 minutes ago, San Fran Dan said:

I live in prantumak I see what goes on Chinese hotels making Chinese money , tell me what Thais are making money but Elites , Waiting….

No need to wait long. I doubt you've verified the Chinese ownership of all the hotels Chinese are staying in. If so, please list the owners. Are the Hilton, the Holiday Inn, Central Festival, Terminal 21 (and all those shops and restos in both malls), Lotus, Tops, Big C, even Foodland owned by Chinese? Local beachside restos such as Maesriren? And all the Thais working on all those places? They working for free, which is what we're all fantasizing? Waiting . . . .

 

 

[toofarnorth]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:42 AM, Skeptic7 said:

Most tourists are here for one thing...and it ain't dining. 

What about a warm fur burger.

[San Fran Dan]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:09 PM, newnative said:

     Well, this can't be right.   Haven't we heard ad infinitum from our select, super-observant, always on-target forum commentators that Chinese tourists in Thailand only eat at Chinese-owned restaurants?  Or, 7-11?  That poor Thai restaurant owner quoted in the article might as well stop standing in her doorway waiting for the Chinese tourists.   And, let's not even get into the heartbreak of the Thai hotel owners.  

Wow one story and you suck  it all in , one owner <deleted> 

[San Fran Dan]

10 minutes ago, BigStar said:

No need to wait long. I doubt you've verified the Chinese ownership of all the hotels Chinese are staying in. If so, please list the owners. Are the Hilton, the Holiday Inn, Central Festival, Terminal 21 (and all those shops and restos in both malls), Lotus, Tops, Big C, even Foodland owned by Chinese? Local beachside restos such as Maesriren? And all the Thais working on all those places? They working for free, which is what we're all fantasizing? Waiting . . . .

 

 

Lol Tour groups don’t stay high end brand hotels <deleted> 

[BigStar]

Just now, San Fran Dan said:

Lol Tour groups don’t stay high end brand hotels <deleted> 

LOL. Not seeing any answers to my questions. Why's that? Simple-mindedness takes it toll. Chinese may join tours for transport, then fan out independently. About 61% are independent travelers. Go to the lobbies of high end (or medium) hotels yourself and see who's staying in them. OH--you haven't done that. What do you actually know and can verify? See some tour buses? CHECK.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, San Fran Dan said:

Lol Tour groups don’t stay high end brand hotels <deleted> 

61% of the Chinese tourists in 2019 were independent travelers and not in tour groups.  But, don't let facts get in your way. . .

[Leaver]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:16 PM, newnative said:

No, it doesn't mean that at all--the article is unclear as to whether her restaurant caters to tour groups. 

 

What would be your advice to the restaurant owner in the OP? 

 

She's clearly stating to the media she need the Chinese to frequent her restaurant.  Is she wrong?  Does she need the Chinese, or not?