Clarification on 180 day UK visa entry allowance

[Negita43]

Anybody know if on a 10 year visa does that means 180 days in a calendar year or 180 days in a 12 month period?

[theoldgit]

There is no specified maximum period, which an individual can spend in the UK in any period, such as ‘6 months in 12 months’ (as long as each visit does not exceed the maximum period for that visit, normally 6 months). However, if it is clear from an applicant’s travel history that they are seeking to remain in the UK for extended periods or making the UK their home the Border Force Officer should refuse entry.
Border Force Officers are advised to check the visitor’s travel history, including how long they are spending in the UK and how frequently they are returning. They must assess if they are, in effect, living in the UK through frequent or successive visits or making the UK their main home.

[theoldgit]

As the Consular Team are not involved in Visa and UK Entry issues, I'll move your question to a more appropriate forum.

[Negita43]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

There is no specified maximum period, which an individual can spend in the UK in any period, such as ‘6 months in 12 months’ (as long as each visit does not exceed the maximum period for that visit, normally 6 months). However, if it is clear from an applicant’s travel history that they are seeking to remain in the UK for extended periods or making the UK their home the Border Force Officer should refuse entry.
Border Force Officers are advised to check the visitor’s travel history, including how long they are spending in the UK and how frequently they are returning. They must assess if they are, in effect, living in the UK through frequent or successive visits or making the UK their main home.

Thank you - very clear.

However I must say that having a 10 year visa does imply "frequent or successive visits" in itself - why else have one?

[Tony M]

It is confusing. Perhps the best way to look at is, use approx 180 days in a 12-month "rolling" period. So when the first entry starts, try to keep the total in the following 12 months to a level that will not get the ECO concerned. So after that visit, if there are no further visits in, say the following 2 years, then the rolling 12 - months will start again when the next visit is started.  Total up the number of days in that rolling 12 month period.  Obviously you cannot carry over unused days in the 12-month period to the next rolling 12-month period.

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Thank you - very clear.

However I must say that having a 10 year visa does imply "frequent or successive visits" in itself - why else have one?

Fair point, but there is probably a difference between frequent and successive visits, the Border Force Officer will need to be satisfied that the passenger is a genuine visitor and that the visa designed for regular visitors over a longer period of time isn’t used to live in the UK.

Be prepared to answer questions, and provide evidence, of the ties to the home country if the visits are too regular.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Thank you - very clear.

However I must say that having a 10 year visa does imply "frequent or successive visits" in itself - why else have one?

For frequent, but not excessive successive visits !!! 

 

My Wife has a 10 year visa... we usually visit the UK twice per year....  its very convenient...

 

But, we know she can’t stay there longer than 6 months per visit and if she were to, then depart and return 2 weeks later it may raise eyebrows upon re-entry at immigration. 

 

That said - Immigration do not ‘check visitors out’ from the UK... So when my Wife arrives for a two week visit I’m not sure IF immigration can tell she left two weeks later or 6 months later... Thus, when she returns can they only see her ‘entry details’ ????

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by richard_smith237

[Negita43]

Thanks everybody.

I was concerned about how they count the days issue. 

 

Last year we were in the UK for 130 days (May - Sept) minus a 3 week side trip to Spain and this year we are planning a 179 day trip (Chosen because of flight costs not because it's 1 day less than the limit) day trip (March - September) with a side trip to Europe (she has a Schengen) and hopefully Turkey (doesn't need Schengen) to be booked in the UK so we can review the security situation before booking closer to the time).

She also has a 10 year USA visa and has been travelling to the UK and Euope regularly for the last 12 years.

 

We also always take a copy of her last 6 months banks statements and she is an ex Government employee with a pension and owns 3 properties in Thailand.

 

I also have a Thai retirement extension which has been renewed for the last several years (with the exception of Covid when I was in the UK and she was in Thailand for nearly 2 years and neither of us could travel - I don't expect she'll get an extra two years on her 10 year visa for that!).

 

Apart from all that she thinks Thailand is the best place in the world to live in. (looking at the UK news I'm not inclined to argue that point with her!)

 

Although I am not a Border Guard and it may well depend on who you get on the day I think we can provide enough evidence to show she will abide by all the immigration rules and she will not be seeking to stay pemanently in the UK - but who knows!

 

As I said at the beginning I was more concerned about how they "tot up" the 180 days.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Negita43
I can't spell or finger trouble

[theoldgit]

58 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That said - Immigration do not ‘check visitors out’ from the UK... So when my Wife arrives for a two week visit I’m not sure IF immigration can tell she left two weeks later or 6 months later... Thus, when she returns can they only see her ‘entry details’ ????

Whilst you’re correct in pointing out that there are no regular embarkation controls when leaving the UK, carriers do record those leaving and pass the information onto the UKBA.

 

That requirement was introduced following the outcry when the Home Office couldn’t provide accurate numbers of those leaving the UK, it was supposed to identify overstayers and those who haven’t complied with the conditions of their visas.

 

I’m not sure that the UKBA are really that joined up ensure the actual data is effectively used.

[yeahbutif]

But do remember it is 180 days and not 6 months. last time is went they asked to see return ticket.so be careful 180 days. 

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I’m not sure that the UKBA are really that joined up ensure the actual data is effectively used.

I think that's putting it politely. I don't know exactly how easy it would be to retrieve such data from an airline, and I doubt it would be quick. Anyone who presents themselves at a UK passport control holding a visa should remember that they have the presumptive right of entry, can only be refused if deception was employed to obtain the visa or there has been a change of circumstances since its issue, the onus of proof is on the IO and the passenger has the right of appeal before removal.

In the case of an accusation of "overstaying" on a 10-year visa, I suppose that would  be deemed to be a change of circumstances. However, actually proving it might not be quick or easy, and the passenger would probably have to be granted temporary admission before a decision was made. Managers at an immigration control (normally CIOs) do not encourage loading the office with casework which has little chance of success.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I think that's putting it politely. I don't know exactly how easy it would be to retrieve such data from an airline, and I doubt it would be quick. Anyone who presents themselves at a UK passport control holding a visa should remember that they have the presumptive right of entry, can only be refused if deception was employed to obtain the visa or there has been a change of circumstances since its issue, the onus of proof is on the IO and the passenger has the right of appeal before removal.

In the case of an accusation of "overstaying" on a 10-year visa, I suppose that would  be deemed to be a change of circumstances. However, actually proving it might not be quick or easy, and the passenger would probably have to be granted temporary admission before a decision was made. Managers at an immigration control (normally CIOs) do not encourage loading the office with casework which has little chance of success.

I suspect there is not much in the manner of ‘checks and balances’ being carried out or that UK Immigration link up that seamlessly with the airlines to log departing foreign nationals. 

 

i suspect this is something which relies more on ‘self policing’.... And IF caught in country having stayed over 180 days on a 10 year visa the offending party is charged / deported etc... 

 

But... given that the police can’t do much to stop and check someones immigration status, that ‘someone’ would have to have been caught committing a crime etc before they are caught out overstaying.... 

 

The reality is that for those with 10 year visa’s their ties are already sufficiently strong enough to the UK (i.e. through marriage etc) that they could apply for ILR and ultimately residency quite easily. 

[Tony M]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I suspect there is not much in the manner of ‘checks and balances’ being carried out or that UK Immigration link up that seamlessly with the airlines to log departing foreign nationals. 

 

i suspect this is something which relies more on ‘self policing’.... And IF caught in country having stayed over 180 days on a 10 year visa the offending party is charged / deported etc... 

 

But... given that the police can’t do much to stop and check someones immigration status, that ‘someone’ would have to have been caught committing a crime etc before they are caught out overstaying.... 

 

The reality is that for those with 10 year visa’s their ties are already sufficiently strong enough to the UK (i.e. through marriage etc) that they could apply for ILR and ultimately residency quite easily. 

I'm interested in that reality.  How would someone on a visit visit successfully apply for ILR  and residency ?

[theoldgit]

12 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I think that's putting it politely. I don't know exactly how easy it would be to retrieve such data from an airline, and I doubt it would be quick.

 

Wasn't that one of the purposes of the over rescoured E-Borders project, the only Directorate that was imune from spending cuts, it was later abandoned, though I believe carriers were still required to forward data to the UKBA black hole. E-Borders_select/cm