21 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Putting politics and the blame game aside, Carl Bildt Co-Chair European Council has a good point.

 

"This Chinese balloon was a rather massive piece of engineering. It’s amazing that some of these have been circling the globe for years without attracting more attention. Beijing has some questions to answer."

 

 

https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1622570260279820288

 

But it says "I am friend - don't shoot"! 

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

so are u still clinging to the idea he should have ordered it shot down over montana or the badlands of south dakota....that "logic" makes zero sense

And what sense to you ascribe to it not being shot down over the badlands.  Mine is that you stopped it from traveling 3,700 km across the USA picking up intelligence.  And yours for not shooting down is what? 

7 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Are you indicating that was "the reason" it was not shot down"  I saw nothing about the excuse being they wanted to retrieve anything.  The excuse was that they did not want to bring it down over a populated area.  

One thing is for sure, if they had fired bullets at the balloon rather than a sidewinder missle the balloons would have slowly leaked air making the descent far more gentle.  That would be true whether that was over Montana or the Aleutina Islands.   The fact remains he let the spy sattelite operate for 8 days completing its spy mission before being destroy.  No matter how you spin that, it was a stupid move. 

How many bullets would it have taken? Where would it have travelled to before it eventually landed?

 

Maybe you should leave it to the experts and the risk assessments they did through experience.

 

1000 Rounds Fired, Why Canada Could Not Shoot Down This ‘Research Balloon’ Using Best Of Fighter Jets 25 Years Ago?

 

“We put some things on station in the event that a decision was made to bring this down while it was over Montana,” the official said. “We wanted to make sure…to empty out the airspace around that potential area. But even with those protective measures taken—and it was the judgment of our military commanders—that didn’t drive the risk down low enough, so we didn’t take the shot.”

https://time.com/6252551/chinese-weather-balloon-shoot-down/

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You really can’t like someone like Trump who break laws, investigated for criminal acts, lie and cheat on tax.

Again you shoot these narratives but of course back it up with nothing.  As to criminal acts he has not been convicted of any crime that I am aware of.  He is being audited but has not been cited as cheating on any taxes.  

By contrast Biden saved upwards of $500,000 in taxes by funneling money through Sub Chapter S.  So when Biden uses existing tax law to minimize his taxes is ok but if Trump uses tax law to minimize his then that is cheating? 

President Biden and first lady Jill Biden saved up to $500,000 by routing $13 million they received in book sales and speeches in 2017 and 2018 through S corporations, according to a Congressional Research Service report, which drew criticism by at least one Republican.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/multimillionaire-bidens-use-of-s-corporations-draws-scrutiny-by-republican-who-sees-hypocrisy

As said before, if you believe that Trump should have had the clairvoyance to exhibit as you put it "villagence" on balloons that were only briefly across USA and not identified by the military, but laud Biden for identifying the spy balloons and then equally laud him for doing nothing about it for 8 days.  I can easily see why you are a Biden voter.  

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Discussed here in Scientific American:

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/?amp=true

Not a very scientific effort really. Villasenor does not actually say they are steerable.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

How many bullets would it have taken? Where would it have travelled to before it eventually landed?

Hint:  Fighter Aircraft have 50 caliber machine guns 

 

It fires standard M50 ammunition at 6,000 rounds per minute (rate selectable in certain installations).

Now whether it traveled 1 mile or 500 miles, it could be tracked, and it certainly in any case would be far less than the 3,700 miles from Montanta to the Atlantic Ocean. 

 

Just now, Longwood50 said:

Hint:  Fighter Aircraft have 50 caliber machine guns 

 

It fires standard M50 ammunition at 6,000 rounds per minute (rate selectable in certain installations).

Now whether it traveled 1 mile or 500 miles, it could be tracked, and it certainly in any case would be far less than the 3,700 miles from Montanta to the Atlantic Ocean. 

 

Landed where? It seems the experts are not as reckless as you.

20 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Are you indicating that was "the reason" it was not shot down"  I saw nothing about the excuse being they wanted to retrieve anything.  The excuse was that they did not want to bring it down over a populated area.  

One thing is for sure, if they had fired bullets at the balloon rather than a sidewinder missle the balloons would have slowly leaked air making the descent far more gentle.  That would be true whether that was over Montana or the Aleutina Islands.   The fact remains he let the spy sattelite operate for 8 days completing its spy mission before being destroy.  No matter how you spin that, it was a stupid move. 

Trumps cabinet let 3 balloons fly across the US without even a thought being given. Read the OP.

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by ThailandRyan

15 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Trumps cabinet let 3 balloons fly across the US without even a thought being given. Read the OP.

So 'briefly' means all across the US? Right. Must have been supersonic balloons then.

Ah....folks.....it's a balloon.

 

It's not Pearl Harbor or 9-11; it's a balloon. It's something between a kid's birthday party with clowns and Phileas Fogg.

 

repubs went apoplectic over.....a balloon.....until they found out 3 balloons from China happened under 45. They're going to need another election issue in the wake of a 54 year low in unemployment (3.4% vs the 6.8% 45 handed to Biden) and a growing economy (+3.2% 3rd Q 2022 and +2.9% 4th Q 2022 vs the Recession 45 handed Biden). Oh, and the $350 less in FY21 deficit vs 45's last year and the $1.3 trillion less in the FY22 deficit vs 45's last year.

 

I hope the Chinese learned everything they needed to know about elk and bison and grizzly bears in Montana. They already knew full well about the ICBM launch sites there, which are as covered up as always, and which have much more information available in open sources.

34 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

And what sense to you ascribe to it not being shot down over the badlands.  Mine is that you stopped it from traveling 3,700 km across the USA picking up intelligence.  And yours for not shooting down is what? 

And mine is they obseeved, scanned and maybe tried to block the signal it was transmitting, and even tried to hack the system. Can be many reason for not shooting it down before. 

 

But what do we know compare to  those who made the decissions, now manipulated for political reasons. 

 

????

21 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Ah....folks.....it's a balloon.

 

It's not Pearl Harbor or 9-11; it's a balloon. It's something between a kid's birthday party with clowns and Phileas Fogg.

 

repubs went apoplectic over.....a balloon.....until they found out 3 balloons from China happened under 45. They're going to need another election issue in the wake of a 54 year low in unemployment (3.4% vs the 6.8% 45 handed to Biden) and a growing economy (+3.2% 3rd Q 2022 and +2.9% 4th Q 2022 vs the Recession 45 handed Biden). Oh, and the $350 less in FY21 deficit vs 45's last year and the $1.3 trillion less in the FY22 deficit vs 45's last year.

 

I hope the Chinese learned everything they needed to know about elk and bison and grizzly bears in Montana. They already knew full well about the ICBM launch sites there, which are as covered up as always, and which have much more information available in open sources.

And the off-topic of the week award goes to...... 

27 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Ah....folks.....it's a balloon.

 

It's not Pearl Harbor or 9-11; it's a balloon. It's something between a kid's birthday party with clowns and Phileas Fogg.

 

repubs went apoplectic over.....a balloon.....until they found out 3 balloons from China happened under 45. They're going to need another election issue in the wake of a 54 year low in unemployment (3.4% vs the 6.8% 45 handed to Biden) and a growing economy (+3.2% 3rd Q 2022 and +2.9% 4th Q 2022 vs the Recession 45 handed Biden). Oh, and the $350 less in FY21 deficit vs 45's last year and the $1.3 trillion less in the FY22 deficit vs 45's last year.

 

I hope the Chinese learned everything they needed to know about elk and bison and grizzly bears in Montana. They already knew full well about the ICBM launch sites there, which are as covered up as always, and which have much more information available in open sources.

M&M shoes, school books, balloons, .... it looks like the GOP is desperately trying to distract attention from important issues.

2 minutes ago, candide said:

M&M shoes, school books, balloons, .... it looks like the GOP is desperately trying to distract attention from important issues.

The important issue is a Chinese balloon freely flying over the USA .

   

4 hours ago, chacha boom said:

Common unbiased sense

So really you have no idea.

 

Common sense does not work in politics.

21 minutes ago, candide said:

M&M shoes, school books, balloons, .... it looks like the GOP is desperately trying to distract attention from important issues.

Yes of course and sadly for a large chunk of Americans, such garbage politics works. 

I doubt Biden should have shot it down but to suggest that he needs to resign for whatever decision he made on a relatively minor spying issue is beyond the pale aburd.

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Hint:  Fighter Aircraft have 50 caliber machine guns 

 

It fires standard M50 ammunition at 6,000 rounds per minute (rate selectable in certain installations).

Now whether it traveled 1 mile or 500 miles, it could be tracked, and it certainly in any case would be far less than the 3,700 miles from Montanta to the Atlantic Ocean. 

 

There really is precious little a balloon could get that a satellite could not do better. Also, much 'intel' is open source. HUMINT is often the only missing piece, not any sort of SIGINT.

 

While the US used to use the SR-71 to take photos and gather data, those aircraft were grounded when the various iterations of the Keyhole satellites were deployed. China has similarly sophisticated satellites. The NSA, as well as Chinese, Russian, and other Five Eyes intel services, can capture every single electronic transmission on Earth. Secrets are kept secret via encryption, not borders, and quantum computers can now break lots of encryption. (Anybody think WhatsApp is actually secure?)

 

Google Maps is 100% borrowed low resolution material from US spy satellites. "Low resolution" means Google is not given the imaging that can tell the date on a coin on the ground---through cloud cover---via a satellite following a molniya orbit whose apogee might be 25000 miles above Earth.

 

Best everybody just chill out about balloons. It's only a political issue now because repubs cannot bark about the economy.

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Not a very scientific effort really. Villasenor does not actually say they are steerable.

And who has claimed they are "steerable"?

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

There really is precious little a balloon could get that a satellite could not do better. Also, much 'intel' is open source. HUMINT is often the only missing piece, not any sort of SIGINT.

 

While the US used to use the SR-71 to take photos and gather data, those aircraft were grounded when the various iterations of the Keyhole satellites were deployed. China has similarly sophisticated satellites. The NSA, as well as Chinese, Russian, and other Five Eyes intel services, can capture every single electronic transmission on Earth. Secrets are kept secret via encryption, not borders, and quantum computers can now break lots of encryption. (Anybody think WhatsApp is actually secure?)

 

Google Maps is 100% borrowed low resolution material from US spy satellites. "Low resolution" means Google is not given the imaging that can tell the date on a coin on the ground---through cloud cover---via a satellite following a molniya orbit whose apogee might be 25000 miles above Earth.

 

Best everybody just chill out about balloons. It's only a political issue now because repubs cannot bark about the economy.

The Chinese balloons    could carry a deadly new strain of Covid and drop it on American towns and cities 

5 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Best everybody just chill out about balloons. It's only a political issue now because repubs cannot bark about the economy.

Unfortunately for the repubs the barking turned into whimpering when it was revealed that 45 had 3 balloon visits under his "presidency".????

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by Phoenix Rising

5 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Unfortunately for the repubs the barking turned into whimpering when it was revealed that 45 had 3 balloon visits under his "presidency".????

Isn't their lame line now well he didn't know about it, but if he had known about it ... 

It's funny Florida Man Trump is trying to wear the hawk and dove faces simultaneously.

He would have shot down balloons he says and of course he can say anything.

For Ukraine he can end it in 24 hours, which if anyone believes that ... 

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by Jingthing

13 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Chinese balloons    could carry a deadly new strain of Covid and drop it on American towns and cities 

Desperate deflection. 

20 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

And who has claimed they are "steerable"?

The SA article begins with this: An expert explains why it’s so odd that the suspected Chinese spy balloon can change course. That means that somehow, it is steerable.

23 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Unfortunately for the repubs the barking turned into whimpering when it was revealed that 45 had 3 balloon visits under his "presidency".????

Just alleged, so far, as ever.

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Isn't their lame line now well he didn't know about it, but if he had known about it ... 

It's funny Florida Man Trump is trying to wear the hawk and dove faces simultaneously.

He would have shot down balloons he says and of course he can say anything.

For Ukraine he can end it in 24 hours, which if anyone believes that ... 

And second place goes to...

11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Desperate deflection. 

Or possibly grim reality.

15 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Desperate deflection. 

I was giving an example of what balloons could do 

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I was giving an example of what balloons could do 

Carry lots of hot air too. Back to the topic  on 3 spy balloons infiltrated US airspace during Trump’s presidency and he did nothing. 

53 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So really you have no idea.

 

Common sense does not work in politics.

Exactly my point