On 2/6/2023 at 5:07 AM, Credo said:

 I thought it seemed kind of odd that they sent a balloon but then it makes sense if they have done it before with no consequences.   

Let's be logical, please. Unless it's got a motor and propellers and a rudder, how could it be directed over any sensitive locations?

A balloon by definition goes where the wind takes it. Simple explanation is that they were indeed weather balloons. Pity the Chinese didn't inform the US before sending them though, as what possible chance is there that they would not be spotted?

 

Also, China is a space nation now, and all they have to do is put spy satellites into orbit to spy, just like the US probably does.

 

IMO the US needs to capture it and see what it was carrying before claiming nefarious intent.

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Apparently, some people just can't handle the truth.   And the truth is, there have been other balloons and they happened under Trump and as usual, neither he nor his inept administration knew what was going on.  

 

President Biden directed the intelligence community "to increase both our vigilance and the assets that we were deploying to be able to detect Chinese efforts to spy against the United States" said national security adviser Jake Sullivan. It was a priority of POTUS to enhanced the capacity to be able to detect things that the Trump adminstration failed and unable to detect. It was a dereliction of priority that allowed multiple instances of Chinese ballons to traversed American airspace and territory during Trump's tenure. What else is new.  

29 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Curious that the Department of Defense would engage in whataboutism to ease the pressure on Biden.

 

Are they doing the bidding of the left now, in the same way the FBI were accused of doing at Mar-a-lago? 

Excellent point. Pity Trump had to chime in though ( if he actually did ). He needs to shut it and retire to his resort in Florida and play golf rest of his life.

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Officials have said the balloon was assessed to have motors and propellers, allowing it to be manoeuvred

 

Posted the link earlier and a good read

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/5/explainer-what-are-spy-balloons-and-why-are-they-used

Pity I hadn't read that before my post above. However, if it is manouverable, surely it is a blimp, not just a balloon?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Blimp (disambiguation).

The Spirit of Goodyear, one of the iconic Goodyear Blimps

A blimp, or non-rigid airship, is an airship (dirigible)[1] without an internal structural framework or a keel. Unlike semi-rigid and rigid airships (e.g. Zeppelins), blimps rely on the pressure of the lifting gas (usually helium, rather than hydrogen) inside the envelope and the strength of the envelope itself to maintain their shape

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pity I hadn't read that before my post above. However, if it is manouverable, surely it is a blimp, not just a balloon?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Blimp (disambiguation).

The Spirit of Goodyear, one of the iconic Goodyear Blimps

A blimp, or non-rigid airship, is an airship (dirigible)[1] without an internal structural framework or a keel. Unlike semi-rigid and rigid airships (e.g. Zeppelins), blimps rely on the pressure of the lifting gas (usually helium, rather than hydrogen) inside the envelope and the strength of the envelope itself to maintain their shape

I am not sure what you are getting at.  It's a balloon, and it appears to have limited maneuverability.  It can obviously change altitude to get into a wind carrying it towards its destination.   It most likely can also move it short distances, but it isn't 'driven' in any normal sense. 

But some of the experts here think it should be shot down over the badlands of south dakota or out in montana somewhere....have they ever been to the badlands?  I have....it would be one of the very last places that u would want to try and recover debris...there is a reason it is called the badlands as it about as inhospitable and hard an access place as exists in the usa..not to mention that if the balloon had been shot down over land it would have been smashed to bits...

 

Gee just maybe the real experts decided after careful study and discussions that if they wanted to salvage anything of value it would be better to bring it down in shallow sea water where the debris field was about 1500 x 1500 meters or less than one square mile and relatively easy for salvage boats to retrieve in 50 ft of water ...and the closest sea where the balloon was headed just happened to be off the coast of south carolina where almost all the debris has been collected in a matter of hours/days.

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Apparently, some people just can't handle the truth.   And the truth is, there have been other balloons and they happened under Trump and as usual, neither he nor his inept administration knew what was going on.  

 

Is it your contention then, that someone in Trump's organisation was required to monitor American airspace? IMO that is the responsibility of the relevant agency that deals with American airspace.

2 hours ago, Dan747 said:

Pompeo calls out 'deeply dangerous' accusation Trump Pentagon didn't notify WH of Chinese balloons (msn.com)

I’ absolutely sure Pompeo ifinds the accusation ‘deeply dangerous’, given he s currently considering running for the Republican nomination for President.

4 minutes ago, Credo said:

I am not sure what you are getting at.  It's a balloon, and it appears to have limited maneuverability.  It can obviously change altitude to get into a wind carrying it towards its destination.   It most likely can also move it short distances, but it isn't 'driven' in any normal sense. 

In that case, how could it maneuver over a specific location, and more to the point, does anyone believe it would not have been picked up as soon as it entered American airspace?

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ absolutely sure Pompeo ifinds the accusation ‘deeply dangerous’, given he s currently considering running for the Republican nomination for President.

I think the "deeply dangerous" he's referring to the false accusations and statements from quarters that should be apolitical designed to let biden off yet another scandal by falsely claiming the same happened under Trump. A familiar pattern to many of us.

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In that case, how could it maneuver over a specific location, and more to the point, does anyone believe it would not have been picked up as soon as it entered American airspace?

Discussed here in Scientific American:

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/?amp=true

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In that case, how could it maneuver over a specific location, and more to the point, does anyone believe it would not have been picked up as soon as it entered American airspace?

Have a look at this

 

https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/jet

 

17 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You know nothing about the incursions because it was not disclosed by the Trump's administration.

Oh but now you do?  You infer that it was hidden.  Check google.  It can be your friend. 

“From every indication that we have, that was for brief periods of time — nothing at all like what we saw last week in terms of duration,” said Mr. Kirby, referring to the balloon that spent much of last week traversing the country before the United States shot it down

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/06/us/politics/china-spy-balloon-trump-administration.html

.

WASHINGTON — The top military commander overseeing North American airspace said Monday that some previous incursions by Chinese spy balloons during the Trump administration were not detected in real time, and the Pentagon learned of them only later.

“I will tell you that we did not detect those threats, and that’s a domain awareness gap,” said Gen. Glen D. VanHerck, the commander of the Pentagon’s Northern Command.

 

One explanation, multiple U.S. officials said, is that some previous incursions were initially classified as “unidentified aerial phenomena,” Pentagon speak for U.F.O.s. As the Pentagon and intelligence agencies stepped up efforts over the past two years to find explanations for many of those incidents, officials reclassified some events as Chinese spy balloons.

 

17 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

We didn;t hear about that too. Too much coverup during Trump's adminstration to give him a pass on any benefit of doubt. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/pentagon-balloon-monday/index.html

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by Longwood50

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is it your contention then, that someone in Trump's organisation was required to monitor American airspace? IMO that is the responsibility of the relevant agency that deals with American airspace.

Yet, Republican demands Joe Biden, Kamala Harris resign over the latest balloon occurrence.

Republican demands Joe Biden, Kamala Harris resign after 'catastrophic Chinese spy balloon spectacle' | Fox News

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Have a look at this

 

https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/jet

 

So what?

 

Aerial spying has to be about a specific location, so explain how a balloon can be maneuvered to that point by using the wind alone?

 

As often is the case, The Independent is providing a far more detailed report than The Daily Mail.

 

”How did the Biden administration discover Chinese balloons from the Trump era?

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said the Biden administration was able to retroactively identify the presence of Chinese balloons in US airspace during Trump’s term after the US enhanced its “surveillance of our territorial airspace,” he said in remarks at an event hosted by the US Global Leadership Coalition, according to the Associated Press.”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/chinese-spy-balloon-recovered-trump-latest-b2276371.html?amp

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So what?

 

Aerial spying has to be about a specific location, so explain how a balloon can be maneuvered to that point by using the wind alone?

 

This has been pointed out to you already, it is a combination of wind and its own maneuverability

 

Chinese spy balloon changes course, floating over ... - Reuters

The disclosure about the spy balloon's maneuverability directly challenges China's assertion that the balloon was merely a civilian airship

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/chinese-spy-balloon-changes-course-floating-over-central-united-states-pentagon-2023-02-03/

 

Edited February 7, 20233 yr by Bkk Brian

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So what?

 

Aerial spying has to be about a specific location, so explain how a balloon can be maneuvered to that point by using the wind alone?

 

There is many layers of wind, thats why, this only explains the higher jetstreams, but even with limited controls to maneuver they can climb and decent to hit the different layers when needed. As said different seasons have different altitudes and directions. 

 

As an skydiver I experienced often upper wind at 13000 feet was different from lower layers 1500 feet and down as an example. Many layers it can be

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

There is many layers of wind, thats why, this only explains the higher jetstreams, but even with limited controls to maneuver they can climb and decent to hit the different layers when needed. As said different seasons have different altitudes and directions. 

 

As an skydiver I experienced often upper wind at 13000 feet was different from lower layers 1500 feet and down as an example. Many layers it can be

Which is why they need to capture it to see exactly what it's capability is and how it's controlled.

12 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Aleutian Islands belong to both Russia and US. Which Island will be safe to shoot down the ballon.  

Only the Big and Little Diomedes islands are split between Russia and U.S.  The Aleutian Islands all belong to the U.S.  I lived on Unalaska island / Dutch Harbor. 

BTW, the U.S. still has a large air force base on Shemya island, the last island in the Aleutian chain.   A United States Air Force radar, surveillance, and weather station and aircraft refueling station, including a 10,000-foot-long (3,000 m) runway, opened on Shemya in 1943 and is still in operation. 

A suspected Chinese surveillance balloon shot down off the US coast was about 200 ft (60m) tall and carrying an airliner-sized load, officials say.

At a briefing on Monday, a US defence official said the size and make-up of the object informed the decision not to shoot it down while it was over land.

"Picture large debris weighing hundreds if not thousands of pounds falling out of the sky," Gen Glen VanHerck said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64548140

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which is why they need to capture it to see exactly what it's capability is and how it's controlled.

Capture it with what? I would believe some kind of penetration would had been enough, so it would descend controlled, but imagine those who have to make the decisions have many critical issues to deal with. Biden just take credit or the responsibility at the end.

 

I also understand it is Bidens administrations who just started to look for spy ballons which made it possible to discover the ballons now, and not previous.

30 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Only the Big and Little Diomedes islands are split between Russia and U.S.  The Aleutian Islands all belong to the U.S.  I lived on Unalaska island / Dutch Harbor. 

BTW, the U.S. still has a large air force base on Shemya island, the last island in the Aleutian chain.   A United States Air Force radar, surveillance, and weather station and aircraft refueling station, including a 10,000-foot-long (3,000 m) runway, opened on Shemya in 1943 and is still in operation. 

The shooting of the ballon left a 7km debris trail. There may be a chance of the debris falling into the Russia side and creat a international incident or into the sea. Would that be a fair assessment of the risk? 

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/pentagon-balloon-monday/index.html

That seem to be the lapse in detecting the past surveillance ballons. No orders from the Commander-in-Chief to the intelligence community to increase vigilance and deployment of assets to detect spy ballons from enemy states. Biden rectified that at the beginning of his administration and to his credit the intelligence was able to detect the ballon and discovered the descrepancies of the previous administration allowing the ballons to intrude into US airspaces. All details will be briefed to GOP lawmakers if they will attend. 

 

Just stop with all the arm chair quarterbacking and give credit where it is due.  President Biden was made aware of the balloon and ordered the military to shoot it down when they determined it was best time to do so.  That is what happened and the end result is the debris was salvaged for further study and nobody was hurt.

 

Good Job Mr. Biden.  Thank you for being a sane rational POTUS and not going off half cocked or thinking you know more than the experts.  

 

All the fox "news" and republican calls for resignation etc are just a lot of noise designed to stir up a controversy where none exists.  Perhaps those folks should be a bit more worried about actions like trying to overthrow the election than when where and how a balloon got shot down.

On 2/6/2023 at 8:49 AM, Credo said:

The US Department of Defense said three other of these crafts 'briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration.' “

That was the initial story... update spoiler alert... it was retracted

26 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

That seem to be the lapse in detecting the past surveillance ballons. No orders from the Commander-in-Chief to the intelligence community to increase vigilance and deployment of assets to detect spy ballons from enemy states.

Now is there a part of this statement you find confusing.  So according to you, Trump should have increased vigalance and the deployment of assets to detect spy balllons that were not "detected"  

Amazing insight on your part. 

“I will tell you that we did not detect those threats, and that’s a domain awareness gap,” said Gen. Glen D. VanHerck, the commander of the Pentagon’s Northern Command.

 

1 minute ago, Longwood50 said:

Now is there a part of this statement you find confusing.  So according to you, Trump should have increased vigalance and the deployment of assets to detect spy balllons that were not "detected"  

Amazing insight on your part. 

“I will tell you that we did not detect those threats, and that’s a domain awareness gap,” said Gen. Glen D. VanHerck, the commander of the Pentagon’s Northern Command.

 

It is really not that confusing. President Joe BIden has demonstrated that by prioritising to the intellgence community the importance of vigilance and assets deployment on his first day of office. Trump didn't. It is that simple. 

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It is really not that confusing. President Joe BIden has demonstrated that by prioritising to the intellgence community the importance of vigilance and assets deployment on his first day of office. Trump didn't. It is that simple. 

More correct Biden administration!