Care for an 85 year old ?

[keefryan]

HI. i find myself in an impossible situation , just looking for opinions pls

My 85 year old mother has mild alzheimer's , she has full capacity and is very mobile our doctor in the UK says there is certainly no cure and all i can do is make her final years as comfortable as possible .

I won't put her in a UK care home at the cost of £5k+ per month so my only option is to bring her to thailand with me fairly soon I Can't get health insurance due to her age and the pre existing dementia .

My mother cannot take any drugs due to allergy , I have accepted that she will receive palliative at her final time so insurance is probably useless . My idea is to rent a house outside Patts , Jomtein or Bang saray where i have a large circle of friends , I will live there with her and i plan to employ a nurse/carer for the few hours im not there to sit with her and assist her with bathing and personal hygiene etc. .

I would like to here any views on the feasibility of this ?  Also is there an agency or similar that provides in house care assistance?

 

Many Thanks. KR

Edited February 5, 2023 by keefryan

[LogicThai]

Yes. I have been looking into the very same topic for my own mother, who is 86 and needs assistance for daily life.

health At Home is a company that provides either 12-hours a day or 24/6 assistance. Prices for English speaking staff (well, what Thai people believe is fluency in English...) are in the 24-34,000 Baht per month. Quite reasonable, i find, for an agency that takes care of emplyment of the staff and provides replacement if need be. Much better than employing a nurse privately.

 

Pricing - Caregiving Service | Health at Home

[keefryan]

5 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

Yes. I have been looking into the very same topic for my own mother, who is 86 and needs assistance for daily life.

health At Home is a company that provides either 12-hours a day or 24/6 assistance. Prices for English speaking staff (well, what Thai people believe is fluency in English...) are in the 24-34,000 Baht per month. Quite reasonable, i find, for an agency that takes care of emplyment of the staff and provides replacement if need be. Much better than employing a nurse privately.

 

Pricing - Caregiving Service | Health at Home

Thanks so much for this !     It seems like we will be self insuring for our loved one in there final years , She wants to come to thailand and be with me and i will feel so much better about her care and morally about myself , Avoiding the horrors of a Government care home , Not to mention the 5K a month + in the UK  

[Dogbarker]

 Take a look at what Vivo bene offers in Chiang Mai .. certainly an option v UK care homes...  Good luck with sorting this out ...

[yankyoakum]

We are in Bang Saray, American 70 with Thai wife 68 who had bad stroke 18 yrs ago. We been here 3 yrs now.  You can hire a live in nurse for 20K baht a month. My wife suffers from Expressive Aphasia, lived in US for 43 yrs. We found a lady who speaks some English has drivers license and stays with us, she works 6 days a week, truthfully about 6 hrs a day. She has her own motor bike and gets food or small things at market. I was oilfield for 44 yrs, toxic <deleted>, hard life and doubt I will outlive my bride. Exactly why we are here, nobody is going to put her in a US nursing home after I am gone. I have little faith in my children, they have their own lives. Hospitals are good here and reasonable. Where ever you go, find high ground. Nothing less than 30 meters above sea level. CM is nasty hot in the summer (wifes from there) and being surrounded by mountains its like being in the bottom of a wok and breeze isn't much air pollution can't get out.  Our meds, BP and other are cheap here, we eat well and enjoy the sea breeze, we're 50 meters above sea level east side of Sukumvit on a hill behind a small mountain.. WE chose the final stop wisely I think after being here 3 yrs.. Good luck to you.. My big issue revolve around my yearly retirement visa renewal. IMM at Jomtien have been quite good but last week I was disheartened at the mass of folks at IMM, many Russians trying to stay here and get visas. After very long wait in Q on a bad knee I gave up and had the visa service walk my paperwork through. Yea cost me 10,000 bt but my knee and hips were happy. 

 

[Tazmo]

I think you are on the right track with bringing your mother over and getting help to care for her..

Good that she won’t have medication, it often make them worse and end up having falls.

Research I read on Care Homes in the UK is that they are no better than the Social Services homes they shut down and sold out in the past. The quality of care you can give as a close relative is immeasurable.

The care homes in North America are similar. They are all like McDonalds, with Corporate identity and owned by the wealthy, eg BUPA in the UK.

 I managed a Care Home in the UK,  there is no resources for Staff training! Mostly recruiting Staff from overseas without even an induction!

Once your Mum is not disturbed at nighttime, you should be able to manage her with help.

Bear in mind that any changes eg moving homes can make their condition slightly worse. But if she recognizes and remembers you, this could help.

Best wishes and hope all goes well. I suppose you will escort her over to your house?

[internationalism]

as you have many friends there ask them if theyir wifes (close relatives) are able to spare some time for helping your mother. They don't need any medical training. That would be cheaper than agency trained staff, possibly by half.

At some stage she become home/bed ridden and will need 24h care, so plan for live in (one extra bedroom for carer). Also garden and large patio/balcony when is too hot/too rainy to go out for a walk.

 

[Thingamabob]

I cannot make recommendations regarding specific locations, service providers etc. but,  generally, the elderly are respected and well cared for in Thailand, far better I would say than in many of our home countries. I think you will be making the right move in bringing your mother here. All the very best to you both.

[thailand49]

To each their own but I'm not one that favors bringing her to Thailand with dementia or Azheimer. 

But in the Pattaya area I've seen a facility down on Soi Siam Country behind the CC condo across is the Wanasin market use to be Estiny resort turn into a care facility.

Good luck. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

What kind of visa do you plan for your mother?

[howerde]

There are no easy options to people in this situation, i had a parent die of dementia so have seen first hand the distress it causes, as you are aware her condition will only get worse and she will need 24hr care( i have had friends with parents in the same situation and the elderly have always ended up in a hospice), the government publish this list, . i see you want to care for her at home which is great, do not underestimate how much this takes out of you time/emotionally, home help can be tricky as there is a huge difference between helping someone who is frail and Alzheimer's/ dementia care,  I hope everything works out for you

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-care-homes/list-of-care-homes-for-british-nationals-in-thailand

The only place that i have seen with a fantastic reputation is in Chang mai

https://mckean.or.th/dok-kaew-gardens/

 

[Gandtee]

Look up the internet site, R4K ., The man based in Pattaya whose site this is has employed a full time nurse from a Bangkok agency to care for his wife. He says he is very happy with the service she gives. He mentions this in this video. Maybe he can advise you.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Gandtee
spelling

[ubonr1971]

4 hours ago, yankyoakum said:

I have little faith in my children, they have their own lives.

surprised to read this. are they thai raised or raised abroad? 

[Freddy42OZ]

10 hours ago, keefryan said:

Thanks so much for this !     It seems like we will be self insuring for our loved one in there final years , She wants to come to thailand and be with me and i will feel so much better about her care and morally about myself , Avoiding the horrors of a Government care home , Not to mention the 5K a month + in the UK  

It's great that you can do this. 
My parents both had Alzheimer's and they stayed in their own home in the UK until they died (Dad 7 years ago, Mum just this past December).  They had 24 hour live in care for 10 years (Dad for 3 years, Mum for the full 10 years). 
They lived for almost 40 years in Asia, but once they moved back to the UK they wanted to stay there. 

[brianthainess]

5 hours ago, internationalism said:

At some stage she become home/bed ridden and will need 24h care, so plan for live in (one extra bedroom for carer). Also garden and large patio/balcony when is too hot/too rainy to go out for a walk.

Yes good idea, there is no special training needed, it is surprising how many Thais are willing to live in, no rent to pay, and take care i.e. Feed, shower, and dress someone. we i.e. my Wife, found a lady to call in on our friend every 2 days for just 4k a month, as he eventually needed 24/7 care She eventually moved in with him, so she was 3k a week better off, no bills to pay ether. Ask around your friends wives if you can.

[BigStar]

7 hours ago, yankyoakum said:

I was oilfield for 44 yrs, toxic <deleted>, hard life and doubt I will outlive my bride.

What's the plan for her if you die first? Just asking.

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, keefryan said:

won't put her in a UK care home at the cost of £5k+ per month

I thought the UK is a welfare state with a free care home for such?

[BritManToo]

Just now, BigStar said:

I thought the UK is a welfare state with a free care home for such?

They sell your house to pay for the care home.

But free for those who rent or are homeless.

[Denim]

Soon be facing a similar problem but since my mother would never agree to moving  here I will have to make the move back to the UK to care for her for at least 6 months a year. Wife can't come with me as has to care for her own elderly mum next door to us.

 

Good luck to the OP. I'm sure he's doing the right and best thing. Wish I had the option.

[Sheryl]

OP your plan is feasible assuming you can afford it. It will cost less if you source the care giver privately as opposed to using an agency, but such agencies do exist.

 

If/when it gets to the point where she is no longer manageable at home  -- or manageable only with 24 hour skilled care which would be quite expensive  (and remember the condition is progressive so this may  well occur) -- then the best place in Thailand for her would be

 

https://mckean.or.th/dok-kaew-gardens/

 

which is in Chiang Mai.

 

In considering costs don't forget financial requirements for her visa (and yours if you are nto already here in Thailand).

 

 

[keefryan]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

I thought the UK is a welfare state with a free care home for such?

Thanks for the reply   However as my mum owns the house and the land its on she has to pay for her own care until her assets/cash are depleted to only £23500 then she would get government assistance.  The UK social care system is ruthless.   kr 

[keefryan]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They sell your house to pay for the care home.

But free for those who rent or are homeless.

Yes.  Correct. Thats exactly what they will do,and we will have no choice if we stay in the UK . I can't afford to pay for private care at £5k+ a month even before i pay any bills or have a life . We will have approx £450k in cash if we sell the house and move there , even earning 3% on no risk deposit gives us at least 20 years .

Edited February 6, 2023 by keefryan

[gargamon]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They sell your house to pay for the care home.

But free for those who rent or are homeless.

Just curious, but do they look at assets other than real estate to decide if they will pay? 

[keefryan]

13 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Just curious, but do they look at assets other than real estate to decide if they will pay? 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs40_deprivation_of_assets_in_social_care_fcs.pdf

 

They are ruthless. They are looking for Cash and property . You also have to explain any expenditure you have made , even if you earnt it and paid tax on it .

[keefryan]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

What's the plan for her if you die first? Just asking.

Fair Question.    i have arranged for another family member to be on standby if i was hospitalised or worse to fly to thailand to get her. 

Good point tho.  ????

[keefryan]

14 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

What kind of visa do you plan for your mother?

I was assuming that it would be a retirement visa ?   Grateful for any suggestions on this.   kr

[vinny41]

28 minutes ago, keefryan said:

I was assuming that it would be a retirement visa ?   Grateful for any suggestions on this.   kr

My Mum had Dementia over a period of 7 years, it is progressive and the condition does get worse over time, with my mum after a number of years she was incapble of signing her own signature, myself and my sister had lifetime POA's for her but as far as i know they are only valid in the UK.

I read somewhere that Thailand does have POA but they are more restrictive and time limited 3-6 months at the most.

When looking at places to live try and source a single storey I have seen it where the brain and feet lose connection and as a result they fall to the floor

Many people  experience where your mother will no longer remember who you are and its a shock for people learning how to cope

you need to read up on the 7 stages of  Alzheimer's Disease so that you can identify what stage she is at and make adjustments within the home

7 Stages of Alzheimer's Disease

https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/alzheimers-disease-stages

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, keefryan said:

I was assuming that it would be a retirement visa ?   Grateful for any suggestions on this.   kr

I suggest you post in the visa forum.

 

Assuming you are over age 50 you can get a visa based on retirement if you meet the financial requirements --  basically 800k baht in Thai bank (with restrictions on spending it)  or proof of 65k baht a month brought in from abroad every month. Your mother  could also get a retirement visa (same requirements)  but might be able to instead get a dependent visa linked to your retirement visa -- I am not sure on that (spouses and children can, just not sure re elderly parent)  so ask in visa forum.

 

Also note that there are 2 types of visas possible, non-O and non OA. The second one requires proof of insurance.  Some embassues are also requiring insurance  for the initial non-O  but after that not needed for annual extensions. There is a work-around whereby can enter on tourist visa or visa exempt then convert to non-O in country which avoids this requirement.

 

Above is just a rough explanation and there and more complexities. Suggest you start reading up on This in the visa Forum and post specific question re dependent visa for your  Mom there.