Work Permit expired and I didn't know I had to leave the country

[wallywest]

My work permit expired mid December and I didn't want to keep teaching at the school I was at. I saw that my work visa/extension of stay was until Feb. 15 so I thought I could stay here until around this week and then leave the country and come back on a tourist visa until I found different work.

 

I told the school this and they never told me that I needed to leave the country before the work permit expired, I just found this out a few hours ago.

 

So how screwed am I? Is this considered a nearly 50 day overstay? My plan was to fly to Udon Thani this week and then get a tourist visa out of Vientiane with my girlfriend and have a mini holiday, but now after getting this new information I really don't know what to do. I don't have the money to pay for 50 days of overstay or have the money to fly to my home country right now if they force me to, i don't have that kind of money for a few weeks.

 

Has anyone been in this situation before and have any suggestions?

[ArtVandelay]

I think the school was responsible for informing immigration.    They can be fined.   I'm not sure about your responsibility, however.    There are posters here who know a lot more than I do and can hopefully answer your question more completely.

[BananaStrong]

happened to a colleague years ago, it was HIS fault 100%.   They said it's his responsibility to understand his visa.

 

His fine was 7000 and he had to pay it.

 

It will cost you 20,000 and maybe another 2000 if you need an extra week, and I think you will not be blacklisted.

 

come on, if you worked for a school, you know they don't tell us teachers anything.  Oh, school is closed today?  activities?  Remember how many mistakes they made getting the work permit?  No way they will bail you out, sorry.   

 

Let me think back to when I was a teacher.......maybe once a school paid a few thousand baht because they sent me to immigration with the wrong paperwork and I had to get a week extension.   

 

Don't feel bad, this is probably pretty common.   I had an overstay on my last passport for a few days.

 

But I have a 99.9% feeling you will have to pay 20,000 

[Mike Teavee]

I’m sorry but in the eyes of immigration it is 100% your responsibility to fully understand your permission to stay in Thailand (even if it’s them that stamp you in wrong) so I can’t see your school doing anything to help here.
 

Although the fine won’t go up anymore (it’s 500b per day overstay but capped at 20,000b) you should make arrangements to leave the country asap as if you’re caught by immigration you would face at least a 1 year ban. 
 

Am sure others can confirm/correct but it’s my understanding that some land borders will send you back to leave via an airport if you’re on a significant overstay so best to check before heading to UT.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[BritTim]

As others have stated, you will need to leave by air, paying 20,000 baht on exit. One option is a one-way ticket to Vientiane, returning by land via the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai. You can fly to Vientiane and crossing back into Thailand the same day for a 45-day visa exempt entry (assuming you are from a country eligible for visa exemptions). It is then cheap to get back to Bangkok (or wherever you are staying) overland. If you do not have around 25,000 baht to cover this, borrow it. It seems to be important to you to stay in Thailand. Do not jeopardise your long term stay here by getting arrested on overstay.

 

Is it certain that the work permit has been cancelled? Sometimes, the school can be slow to do this, and you might be able to negotiate the school giving a February 15th termination letter which would solve all your problems.

[BananaStrong]

I want to TRY to inject some HOPE, others will say if I'm wrong.

 

Let's say you got your FIRST Non-B Visa in December.  I think that means you are OK for two months even if you leave the school.   I'm not sure if this is null once you get the work permit, but I've seen teachers get the Non-B, quit, and they do have a valid visa for a few months, then they get a one-month extension.   Again, years ago, maybe there are new laws.

 

PLAN on the 20,000 fine, plus.   I want to try to be somewhat possible.   As far as school's not cancelling your work permit on time, I've worked for 5 years and I think that's a myth and likely immigration will still fine you from when you left.   anyhow....... 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

One option is a one-way ticket to Vientiane

I seem to recall reading some time ago that one of the Airlines (Laos Air?) won’t let you fly if you’re leaving Thailand with an Overstay.

 

Could be completely mistaken, again one of those things to check if it might impact you. 

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, wallywest said:

I don't have the money to pay for 50 days of overstay or have the money to fly to my home country right now if they force me to, i don't have that kind of money for a few weeks.

You are going to need to borrow the money for flight home along with the cost of the overstay. 

 

You dont have 20k and don't have money for flight. 

Exit at airport pay the overstay and regroup at home country. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by DrJack54

[wallywest]

Hey everyone, thank you for your answers and advice, greatly appreciate it.

 

Here's a small update. I went back to my messages to the school and saw that a couple weeks before my WP expired I did ask them multiple times if I needed to leave the country or if my visa will stay valid until Feb 15. They told me I didn't need to leave the country but obviously they were wrong.

 

I just messaged them an hour ago to complain and they're saying it's a miscommunication and that yes I was supposed to leave the country and get a new visa.

 

Now an hour later they messaged me again and said.

 

"I double check your visa still valid until Feb 15 is not cancelled yet, if you leave the country before 15th of February, don't apply re entry permit, don't show your work permit in immigration. Just show your passport to them. You can go outside of the country like Cambodia."

 

I said "Are you sure?"

 

"Yes I checked with my colleague. Don't show your work permit to the immigration in the airport if you leave outside of Thailand before Feb 15th. Your visa still in the system of immigration."

 

So obviously I want to take this with a grain of salt. I'm still gonna borrow money from my brother, enough to pay a 20k fine and buy a ticket to USA if need be.

 

But do y'all still think there's a chance I won't have to waste that money and I might be okay?

 

Thanks again in advance. 

[Rimmer]

A post with a large empty space under it has been removed

[JayClay]

20 minutes ago, wallywest said:

But do y'all still think there's a chance I won't have to waste that money and I might be okay?

Are you currently on a 90 day entry from your initial visa?

 

Or did you come in on a 90 day stamp, and subsequently extend your permission to stay?

 

From other posts in this thread it appears that in the first situation you may be in the clear. In the second situation maybe not.

 

[Caldera]

20 minutes ago, wallywest said:

I'm still gonna borrow money from my brother, enough to pay a 20k fine and buy a ticket to USA if need be.

Sounds like a prudent approach, but note that if you do need to pay the fine, you don't need to fly back to your home country, you could still fly to a neighboring country.

 

What your school told you is likely true, so it's worth a shot to just try to leave as they told you.

[wallywest]

20 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Are you currently on a 90 day entry from your initial visa?

 

Or did you come in on a 90 day stamp, and subsequently extend your permission to stay?

 

From other posts in this thread it appears that in the first situation you may be in the clear. In the second situation maybe not.

 

 

Last time I left Thailand was May 2nd 2022 and came back May 17th 2022.

 

Right now in my passport it says, "Extension of stay permitted up to 15 Feb 2023" Signed by IO, 14 Feb 2022. 

 

Looks like my initial visa was Feb 2020, so three years ago. 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, wallywest said:

But do y'all still think there's a chance I won't have to waste that money and I might be okay?

Yes.

 

Technically, your permission to stay should have been terminated as of the day you stopped working. This would normally have been done by visiting immigration with a termination letter confirming your last day of employment, and having the permission to stay terminated as of that date. You are now technically on overstay. However, the labour department and immigration are not in routine contact with each other. Immigration is unaware that you have stopped working, and there is no evidence of your terminated employment in your passport.

[youreavinalaff]

Border crossings generally don't keep up with work permit and extension of stay details. You might be lucky and, because your extension of stay is still valid in your passport, they may just stamp you out. The only issue might be your lack of tax payment receipts.

 

I'd be inclined to go to the border ASAP and give it a go.

[problemfarang]

hi,

technically your visa expires the same day in the work termination letter from your school. So whatever date on the termination letter is your last day. 

 

it is fully not the school duty to inform you by any means about your visa situation or likewise. it is your responsibility to know this. no argument here and shouldnt be. would be a nice act to tell you what you should do next or ask if you know what to do next, but again its not their duty or responsibility. 

 

you are overstay. the best thing is to leave the country as soon as possible by air. When your at the airport you must pay 20.000 baht. for 50 days i dont thing you will get any ban returning to thailand.

 

i dont know this is your first overstay or not but if not your next visa may have some problems or you may face with some questions at the immigration. if its the first one, i dont think your next visa will be a problem. but 50 days you said, its a long time. so maybe some questions at the immigration again. 

 

another important thing you should be aware of is that immigration will ask for the work termination letter which your school should give to you. they will check the date on it and will act as whats needed. also calculate your overstay time. so have that letter.

 

PS: this might help up to your relationship with the director of the school. you can literally beg him to change the letter date on it. they can change it, it will not harm them. only if they want to. immigration ahs no idea and connection with the labor office. ask school to change the date on it. if they accept that tell them to write like next week or likewise so you will have time to prepare leaving. 

PS2: next time be more careful and more responsible about things. these are important things. its so strange you have no idea about this visa rule.. dont you have any friends at school, around you?! 

 

good luck

[problemfarang]

27 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Border crossings generally don't keep up with work permit and extension of stay details. You might be lucky and, because your extension of stay is still valid in your passport, they may just stamp you out. The only issue might be your lack of tax payment receipts.

 

I'd be inclined to go to the border ASAP and give it a go.

he will leave the country with a non-b work extension and no re-entry. immigration will ask his work termination letter and if theres non they will reject him and tell him to go and get the letter. otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

i was going to get a non-o visa and tried to border crossing with my non-b. they rejected me. so i had to get a letter from my company saying im still working.

Edited February 6, 2023 by problemfarang

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

However, the labour department and immigration are not in routine contact with each other. Immigration is unaware that you have stopped working, and there is no evidence of your terminated employment in your passport.

very correct. but immigration will not let him leave with a still going on non-b work visa. otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

[problemfarang]

4 hours ago, wallywest said:

"I double check your visa still valid until Feb 15 is not cancelled yet, if you leave the country before 15th of February, don't apply re entry permit, don't show your work permit in immigration. Just show your passport to them. You can go outside of the country like Cambodia."

 

I said "Are you sure?"

 

"Yes I checked with my colleague. Don't show your work permit to the immigration in the airport if you leave outside of Thailand before Feb 15th. Your visa still in the system of immigration."

wrong info. you have extension based on your work. you are 100% overstay. stop listening them and ask them to write a new termination letter and change the date on it..

 

PS: i know this is so bad and dirty but i know a friend who was in your shoes. he found a government paper (the one with an eagle on the top middle one -you can find google-) and ask his friend to write a letter for him. wrote the same letter with the work termiantion letter. just sign it... immigration didnt say anything and let him go. he was overstay for i think 25 days. .. well... up to you... the only problem you may face is.. the school stamp on the signature. some check that some not care but care only the date on it. in my friend's case it worked without a stamp.. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by problemfarang

[Ralf001]

8 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

he will leave the country with a non-b work extension and no re-entry. immigration will ask his work termination letter and if theres non they will reject him and tell him to go and get the letter.

Slight correction.

 

He'd be leaving on a permission to stay extension stamp.

 

Now I do not have my passport on hand so cannot check mine but does the extension mention the reason why it was granted...... Eg: working ?

 

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

he will leave the country with a non-b work extension and no re-entry. immigration will ask his work termination letter and if theres non they will reject him and tell him to go and get the letter. otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

i was going to get a non-o visa and tried to border crossing with my non-b. they rejected me. so i had to get a letter from my company saying im still working.

Like I said, "might be lucky" especially if he leaves on the final day of the extension.

[Caldera]

12 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

very correct. but immigration will not let him leave with a still going on non-b work visa. otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

Apparently you tried to leave at a land border, where what you wrote applies. The OP has been advised to fly out.

[problemfarang]

1 minute ago, Caldera said:

Apparently you tried to leave at a land border, where what you wrote applies. The OP has been advised to fly out.

so when you fly it doesnt put you into the same situation: otherwise how can the immigration know hes overstay or not or maybe he is running away or he did something against the contract?!

 

so only the land borders think about this but not airport?

 

just wondering.. if i do something against my contract i can run away with a plane to laos but cannot cross the border using my legs?

[tomazbodner]

14 hours ago, wallywest said:

My work permit expired mid December and I didn't want to keep teaching at the school I was at. I saw that my work visa/extension of stay was until Feb. 15 so I thought I could stay here until around this week and then leave the country and come back on a tourist visa until I found different work.

If your passport still has stamp that says must leave before 15 Feb, you should be good at exit. Probably also OK in getting a new visa, but...

 

When you apply for the next work permit, this will resurface. You are supposed to go and terminate your visa on the last day of work and the day work permit is cancelled. This isn't automatic. You can then apply for extension where you only get a week to pack up and leave, or apply for another extension based on a new work permit, if switching jobs.

 

But as said, seems you have not cancelled extension of stay, you leave, probably no issues else you'd have another stamp in your passport cancelling that stamp, but when you apply for any extension or work permit in the future, they'll probably send you straight to police station to pay the fines before giving you anything.

 

This happened to a Korean colleague of mine, though in her case she didn't cancel work permit, left country, no problem, entered country on tourist visa, no problem... got non-immigrant visa at Singapore, no problem... but... when she tried to apply for work permit to work at our company... they pulled out all her records, handed them to her, and pointed her to police station near labour department.

 

All that said - she got the minimum fine of 2000 baht. Possibly also a result of how she dressed up and the old man salivating looking at her... Don't know what fine you could get.

 

So get out of the country and get your affairs in order. Save up before applying for any extensions of stay as it could, and probably would resurface, if not earlier, then at the time you apply for work permit again.

[problemfarang]

12 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Slight correction.

 

He'd be leaving on a permission to stay extension stamp.

 

Now I do not have my passport on hand so cannot check mine but does the extension mention the reason why it was granted...... Eg: working ?

 

 

of course. they write on it even the work place name... 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

If your passport still has stamp that says must leave before 15 Feb, you should be good at exit. Probably also OK in getting a new visa, but...

 

When you apply for the next work permit, this will resurface. You are supposed to go and terminate your visa on the last day of work and the day work permit is cancelled. This isn't automatic. You can then apply for extension where you only get a week to pack up and leave, or apply for another extension based on a new work permit, if switching jobs.

 

But as said, seems you have not cancelled extension of stay, you leave, probably no issues else you'd have another stamp in your passport cancelling that stamp, but when you apply for any extension or work permit in the future, they'll probably send you straight to police station to pay the fines before giving you anything.

 

This happened to a Korean colleague of mine, though in her case she didn't cancel work permit, left country, no problem, entered country on tourist visa, no problem... got non-immigrant visa at Singapore, no problem... but... when she tried to apply for work permit to work at our company... they pulled out all her records, handed them to her, and pointed her to police station near labour department.

 

All that said - she got the minimum fine of 2000 baht. Possibly also a result of how she dressed up and the old man salivating looking at her... Don't know what fine you could get.

 

So get out of the country and get your affairs in order. Save up before applying for any extensions of stay as it could, and probably would resurface, if not earlier, then at the time you apply for work permit again.

Police Station? 

[BananaStrong]

surprising turn of events.......I'm starting to guess the office is FAR from school, and maybe there is like a 3-month grace period to hand in the work permit.  I'll just wait and see what happens.

 

PLOT TWIST:   If you have a valid visa, go to the labor department and demand your salary!!!!!!!!!

 

lol

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

of course. they write on it even the work place name... 

Right ok.

 

If the permission to stay is still "valid" why would they be asking for  work termination letter ?

 

[tomazbodner]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Police Station? 

Labour department at Din Daeng in Bangkok, department of employment refused to accept any documents, and instructed her to go to police station about 300-400m away, opposite direction from Rama 9 road. Don't remember name of building but police station is on ground floor.

 

There she had to pay fines, and get a receipt and a police report that all outstanding fines have been cleared.

 

Back to labour department, officers were shocked how quickly that was cleared and proceeded with the process. She got work permit approved shortly after that.

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Labour department at Din Daeng in Bangkok, department of employment refused to accept any documents, and instructed her to go to police station about 300-400m away, opposite direction from Rama 9 road. Don't remember name of building but police station is on ground floor.

 

There she had to pay fines, and get a receipt and a police report that all outstanding fines have been cleared.

 

Back to labour department, officers were shocked how quickly that was cleared and proceeded with the process. She got work permit approved shortly after that.

Fines for what? She was in breach of immigration law. Nothing to do with the police.