How the Wealthy Save Billions in Taxes by Skirting a Century-Old Law

[gamb00ler]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I said those who get to deduct their California and New York income taxes are being subsidized.  Two people with identical income one in California and one in Texas, both itemize.  The Texas tax payer will pay more.  The majority of tax payers don't itemize.  

You only talk about paying tax.... there's another side to taxation and that is receiving payments from the government which are funded by tax revenue.  Does that not seem relevant to you?  The percentage of tax paid that the average Texan receives back from the federal government in benefits is much higher than what the average Californian gets back.  That is the bottom line!   After considering the entire picture Californians are subsidizing Texans.

Edited February 12, 2023 by gamb00ler

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I am not defending them.  What I am saying is there is no such thing as a loophole.  It is obvious you have no idea how tax loss selling works.  IT IS NOT A LOOPHOLE. 

Example Balmer owns two stocks.  He paid $5 million for each.  The first one increases in value to $7.5 million and he sells it for a $2.5 million gain.  The second one decreases to $2.5 million for a $2.5 million dollar loss.  So net HE EARNED ZERO

 

However the law states that unless Balmer sells the stock he has a loss in, he can not declare it on his tax return. 

So Balmer sells his stock at a loss to offset his "gain" otherwise he would pay tax on his $2.5 million dollar gain when in fact overall he really earned zero from the total of his investments. 

There are "no loopholes" there are only tax laws.  There are no tax havens, off shore accounts, that save people money.  The IRS says you must declare any and all income from any and all sources irrespective of how you earn it.  Technically a bank robber, drug dealer or a prostitute could be prosecuted for tax eveasion if they did not declare their earnings.  This idea that the wealthy don't pay their fair share of taxes is a myth that is peddled to garner votes from those who are not in the 1% and there are more of them.  The top 1% of earners in the USA pay more than the bottom 90% combined.  Use google it can be your friend. 

So in terms of jobs and tax revenues you want More Billionaires not fewer.  You are showing your class envy despising those who are successful. 

https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/#:~:text=In all%2C the top 1,90 percent paid %24450 billion.

The benefits of buying politicians to create ‘loop holes’ in your favor.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Longwood50]

53 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

You only talk about paying tax.... there's another side to taxation and that is receiving payments from the government which are funded by tax revenue.  Does that not seem relevant to you?  The percentage of tax paid that the average Texan receives back from the federal government in benefits is much higher than what the average Californian gets back.  That is the bottom line!   After considering the entire picture Californians are subsidizing Texans.

I repeat.  Two people earning identical amounts of income and both itemize.  The Texan is subsidizing the person in California in allowing him to pay less because he gets to deduct his state income tax.  

 

 

[Longwood50]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The benefits of buying politicians to create ‘loop holes’ in your favor.

Are another empty platitude backed by of course nothing but the thin air of your mind. 

If they were so great at creating 'LOOP HOLES'  Then tell me why do the top 1% pay more by a great amount then the bottom 90%



If they are so great at creating loopholes why is the AVERAGE TAX RATE paid by the top 1%   more than 8 TIMES the bottom 50%. 

 

You are a product of the refrain, tell a lie, make it a big lie and keep repeating it and eventually people believe it.  You believe the wealthy don't pay tax, have loopholes and dont pay their fair share. 

WHEN ALL THE STATISTICS BY THE IRS SHOW EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. 

Google sometime the term, know the truth, see the truth, but continue to believe the lies and see what it says about such a person. 

[Longwood50]

41 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The benefits of buying politicians to create ‘loop holes’ in your favor.

Looks like the buying of politicians i not getting a good return on their investment.  Would you care to ever provide any statistic just one to back up your unfounded assertion.

 

https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/#:~:text=High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes,of all federal income taxes.



https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes

Edited February 12, 2023 by Longwood50

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Irrelevant. He has conditions that are not afforded to the majority. 

There are conditions for paying tax. 98.8% of people don't have enough money to worry

about / find out what they are.????

 

The gentleman in question probably pays his tax account more money than most of us mortals earn. ( All the speak for yourself trollers can p.i.s.s off)

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Are another empty platitude backed by of course nothing but the thin air of your mind. 

If they were so great at creating 'LOOP HOLES'  Then tell me why do the top 1% pay more by a great amount then the bottom 90%



If they are so great at creating loopholes why is the AVERAGE TAX RATE paid by the top 1%   more than 8 TIMES the bottom 50%. 

 

You are a product of the refrain, tell a lie, make it a big lie and keep repeating it and eventually people believe it.  You believe the wealthy don't pay tax, have loopholes and dont pay their fair share. 

WHEN ALL THE STATISTICS BY THE IRS SHOW EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. 

Google sometime the term, know the truth, see the truth, but continue to believe the lies and see what it says about such a person. 

Because you don’t understand tax paid proportional to income.

[Longwood50]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because you don’t understand tax paid proportional to income.

You obiously can't 

 

The chart show that the tax rate of the top 1% earned 22.2% of the income in the USA but paid 42.3% of ALL THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX  The average rate was 25.99% which is more than EIGHT TIMES the rate of the bottom 50%.  The lower 50% earned 10.2% of all income but paid only 2.3% of all tax

So much for your proportionality stat. 

Match wasn't your best subject was it. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Longwood50

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Are another empty platitude backed by of course nothing but the thin air of your mind. 

If they were so great at creating 'LOOP HOLES'  Then tell me why do the top 1% pay more by a great amount then the bottom 90%



If they are so great at creating loopholes why is the AVERAGE TAX RATE paid by the top 1%   more than 8 TIMES the bottom 50%. 

 

You are a product of the refrain, tell a lie, make it a big lie and keep repeating it and eventually people believe it.  You believe the wealthy don't pay tax, have loopholes and dont pay their fair share. 

WHEN ALL THE STATISTICS BY THE IRS SHOW EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. 

Google sometime the term, know the truth, see the truth, but continue to believe the lies and see what it says about such a person. 

I guess you're not familiar with the income tax system as it was founded. It was designed to be progressive. At any rate in the 1950s the average tax on the wealthiest people was 40%. Now it's 26% You think that happened by accident?

In addition to which, lots of ways in which the rich acquire wealth or pay themselves are not taxed. This has been discussed repeatedly.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Here’s the really clever bit.

 

Billionaires enlisting people at or near the bottom of the wealth ladder defending the very practices that have stripped wealth out of blue collar workers and the middle class to line the pockets of the hyper wealthy.

 

It’s a stroke of genius.

 

[Credo]

Years ago, I held a full-time job and was also farming.  My main source of income was my job and my main source of deductions was farming.  Some years, I was even able to get earned income credit.  I had two new vehicles -- tax-deductible.  I had nice equipment, all tax-deductible.   I planted new shelter belts around my home -- the trees were all free.    

 

When I turned the entire farming operation over to one of the kids, quit my job and got ready to move overseas, it was the first time I ever got nailed with a significant tax bill.  I was not working for several months and then took a part-time job while awaiting approval for an overseas job.   It was the most money I ever paid in taxes.  

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Looks like the buying of politicians i not getting a good return on their investment.  Would you care to ever provide any statistic just one to back up your unfounded assertion.

 

https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/#:~:text=High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes,of all federal income taxes.



https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes

Have you heard of the term income inequality? Out of all the fully developed nations, America has the highest level of income inequality.  The wealthiest Americans have increased their percentage of of total national income. So naturally they are going to be paying a larger share of taxes. What the wealthy have succeeded in doing is reducing the highest tax rates of the graduated income tax. So they pay a lot smaller percentage of their income than they used to.

[RuamRudy]

16 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

There are conditions for paying tax. 98.8% of people don't have enough money to worry

about / find out what they are.????

 

The gentleman in question probably pays his tax account more money than most of us mortals earn. ( All the speak for yourself trollers can p.i.s.s off)

But we should be worrying about them because they are unfair. Were tax rules to be applied equitably then he would be liable for much more. That his potential bill would be significantly more than most is not a result of his business acumen or hard work. 

 

Much like the PM's wife. Why should she be able to enjoy all the benefits of living in the UK (admittedly, I chuckled as I typed that) but be able to avoid paying an equal rate of tax that the most of us pay? 

Edited February 13, 2023 by RuamRudy

[VocalNeal]

^ Tax rules are the same for everyone.????

 

As I understand it. The gentleman in question sold shares and took a loss. He then applied that loss to his tax numbers. 

That he bought them back was not question on the tax form.

 

Unfair? Life is unfair. When I was born how come my parents didn't have more money or shares in BHP or Shell?

In UK education is free. How come some children don't apply themselves and become clever. Fair or unfair. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by VocalNeal

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Tax rules are the same for everyone.????

 

The gentleman in question sold shares and took a loss. He than applied that loss to his tax numbers. 

That he bought them back was not question on the tax form.

So many problems with "Tax rules are the same for everyone"

Tax rules are not laws of nature. They are created by legislation. The rules may be the same for everyone, but many rules are designed to advantage the few who actually have the means to take advantage of them. This particular kind of stop swapping could easily be made illegal. After all, this is clearly just a paper loss that bears no relation to reality. It was for that reason that it is illegal to sell and buy in close proximity the same class of stocks issued by a particular corporation.

[Eric Loh]

Those wealthy are a fortunate lot to have the GOP dedicated to fight for them to lower taxes. Envies cast by society in general at the countries with better income distribution and with better housing, healthcare and enough to eat.