Airbnb / Short Term Rentals: What’s your experience renting out your property?

[Capitalist]

I am considering buying a condo in Bangkok, or perhaps even two.

But I might be there only a few months per year. Perhaps I could rent it out on the remaining months on Airbnb with the help of a local property manager.

Does anyone have experience in this? Feel free to share any thoughts, tips, potential issues, etc.

 

My primary motivation for buying a condo is not the rental income. I just want to have my own place with my own taste in interior. But knowing it won’t be a dead asset 6 months per year could help me pull the trigger.

[OneMoreFarang]

Don't do it.

Short time Airbnb is illegal.

Renting for longer time is not easy, there are many available units, and many are empty for a long time.

And then you need someone reliable to look that all goes alright..

 

[rohitsuk]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't do it.

Short time Airbnb is illegal.

Renting for longer time is not easy, there are many available units, and many are empty for a long time.

And then you need someone reliable to look that all goes alright..

 

Totally agree, spot on. Both my grandsons are in the property business as I was myself briefly some years ago and standards are very different here. Certain groups and nationalities have a very bad reputation as tenants and the stress it is likely to cause you would simply not be worth it. Do not buy but shop around for a rental you can live with, there is lots of choice and it would be a lot cheaper cheaper.  You can always put in store your favorite stuff to dec out your place to your taste. I think that the Thai property market is heading for a 2008 US type disaster. And all of  this before you even get into the business of neighbours.

[Capitalist]

9 minutes ago, rohitsuk said:

I think that the Thai property market is heading for a 2008 US type disaster.

Those are strong words. Why exactly do you think the Thai property market is “heading for a 2008 US type disaster”? 

[bradiston]

Location, location, location. A maximum 3 bedroom house (ie non hotel) on, or very near, a beach on an island is a potential goldmine. But go for minimum 30 day lets. The overhead of checking guests in and out every 5 seconds will kill you. And finding professional, trustworthy management is almost impossible. I've experience of the above scenario, but none letting a condo. I rent one instead. So much easier!

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, Capitalist said:

Those are strong words. Why exactly do you think the Thai property market is “heading for a 2008 US type disaster”? 

I don't know much about this but I do see often condos for sale in Chiang Mai which cost as much a 2 story house (3+ million range) so I have to wonder if these are actually priced for the real market of buyers or just being used to speculate on.

 

Likewise I just saw a piece of 1.1 Rai land in Mae Rim (northern part of Chiang Mai well outside the city) being listed for 47 million. This is extreme but I often see silly things like this so I've myself wondered if we're in the middle of property bubble.

[Krabi King]

I've been renting out a pool villa for the last 8 years through Airbnb and other platforms. With a license it is not illegal. However, I think condos are a different story because of possible disturbance to other owners in the building.

Still many condos being rented out on Airbnb in Bangkok. In the end, driving without a helmet in Thailand is also illegal...

[bradiston]

26 minutes ago, Krabi King said:

I've been renting out a pool villa for the last 8 years through Airbnb and other platforms. With a license it is not illegal. However, I think condos are a different story because of possible disturbance to other owners in the building.

Still many condos being rented out on Airbnb in Bangkok. In the end, driving without a helmet in Thailand is also illegal...

A friend who works in my local อบต says a licence to let a house only costs 50 THB. Not sure if it's true.

[Goat]

Renting out long term is hardly worth it. Almost better off keeping your money in a savings aaccount the rents are that low.

Short term rentals is where the money is if you do it right.

 

You need to set it up well though for easiness for your guests. Have a good taxi driver on call and pre agreed fares to locations on a list in the condo. Saves them having to haggle.

Have a selection of food delivery places etc etc

Have a friendly helpful cleaning lady.

 

Good luck.

[prism]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

Renting out long term is hardly worth it. Almost better off keeping your money in a savings aaccount the rents are that low.

Short term rentals is where the money is if you do it right.

 

You need to set it up well though for easiness for your guests. Have a good taxi driver on call and pre agreed fares to locations on a list in the condo. Saves them having to haggle.

Have a selection of food delivery places etc etc

Have a friendly helpful cleaning lady.

 

Good luck.

Also consider that your guest will need a TM 30 form submitted and to make sure the condo building allows short term rentals. 

[pomchop]

In a nutshell most all condo rentals of less than 30 days are illegal in Thailand unless the condo has a hotel license which very few do....most condo HOA rules also prohibit the short term rentals.

 

Have a little respect for people who either own or rent long term who do not want to live in a hotel environment with people coming and going at all hours, clogging elevators in and out, swimming pool over use, coming home drunk and loud with their ladies of the evening.  During covid a lot of condos illegally jumped into looking the other way with short term rentals....but....covid is basically over and many owners are sick of the abuse. It' not just airbnb that enable all these illegal rentals..dproperty managers in the push the illegal rentals and sometimes even the security serves as key dispensers all right in front of the juristic who are supposed to enforce the house rules not encourage illegal rentals.....agoda and booking.com also allow them to list and they know full well it is illegal but they do not care as they want the $$....look for class action lawsuits against some of these platforms at least in usa ....and over time a lot of the thai owners are getting fed up with all the short term rentals and can well start to complain and report violators....especially farangs.  If you want to be in the hotel business then buy a hotel whose function is to provide short term accommodations, have a license, pay hotel property and revenue  taxes, etc.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, Capitalist said:

Perhaps I could rent it out on the remaining months on Airbnb with the help of a local property manager.

You need to be aware that one condo in a condo block requires a hotel licence. The minimum room level for a hotel licence does not apply to condos. A court ruling declared all rooms in the building need to be taken into account.

[pomchop]

 In fact, the stipulated punishment under The Hotel Act, B.E. 2547 (2004), Section 15 “without a hotel license” is one-year imprisonment and a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht. Plus, a daily fine not to exceed 10,000 baht for as long as the violation continues.

 

[petedk]

25 minutes ago, pomchop said:

In a nutshell most all condo rentals of less than 30 days are illegal in Thailand unless the condo has a hotel license which very few do....most condo HOA rules also prohibit the short term rentals.

 

Have a little respect for people who either own or rent long term who do not want to live in a hotel environment with people coming and going at all hours, clogging elevators in and out, swimming pool over use, coming home drunk and loud with their ladies of the evening.  During covid a lot of condos illegally jumped into looking the other way with short term rentals....but....covid is basically over and many owners are sick of the abuse. It' not just airbnb that enable all these illegal rentals..dproperty managers in the push the illegal rentals and sometimes even the security serves as key dispensers all right in front of the juristic who are supposed to enforce the house rules not encourage illegal rentals.....agoda and booking.com also allow them to list and they know full well it is illegal but they do not care as they want the $$....look for class action lawsuits against some of these platforms at least in usa ....and over time a lot of the thai owners are getting fed up with all the short term rentals and can well start to complain and report violators....especially farangs.  If you want to be in the hotel business then buy a hotel whose function is to provide short term accommodations, have a license, pay hotel property and revenue  taxes, etc.

You are right, but does anyone care?

Chinese people have overtaken nearly half of our soi and running the places as hotels, with guests staying 1 night only. Drunken people coming and going all night. Luxury cars blocking the road. plus many other disturbances that I won't mention here. 

 

Everyone in our soi signed a petition to the local council, we have called the police hundreds of times and absolutely nothing is done about.

[petedk]

16 minutes ago, pomchop said:

 In fact, the stipulated punishment under The Hotel Act, B.E. 2547 (2004), Section 15 “without a hotel license” is one-year imprisonment and a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht. Plus, a daily fine not to exceed 10,000 baht for as long as the violation continues.

 

But as I said earlier, nothing happens.

[intheheartoftheheart]

Some anecdotal info, use if interested.

 

I own two condos in Bangkok, both in Thong Lo/Ekkamai area. Close to BTS. Prime Airbnb rentals. Both are two bedrooms. Two different buildings.

We purchased both condos in 2017. Mostly just to keep some money in the Thai economy. 

 

Covid obviously messed things up, but during 2017-early 2019 we were averaging $120/night for the apartments. I would say 50% occupancy since they are expensive compared to the $30/night Sukhumvit bug boxes the global debt serf tourists prefer.

 

It wasn't worth the hassle, even though I had a local team managing everything from check in to transfers. Lots of headaches. Broken furniture and appliances. Leaks. Spills. Complaints. I was insulated from all of this except to write the checks for the handymen but still would not recommend.

 

Now we are at $95 a night for both units, but require one month minimum. Both are booked until October 1.  Management girl says Russians and Koreans are doing most of the renting. Seem like decent people, but we shall see how it goes.

 

[pomchop]

53 minutes ago, petedk said:

You are right, but does anyone care?

Chinese people have overtaken nearly half of our soi and running the places as hotels, with guests staying 1 night only. Drunken people coming and going all night. Luxury cars blocking the road. plus many other disturbances that I won't mention here. 

 

Everyone in our soi signed a petition to the local council, we have called the police hundreds of times and absolutely nothing is done about.

i suspect that some envelopes get passed out to allow it to continue...only if and when some well connected thai condo owners get irritated at it and don't care to have their buildings turned into hotels will it stop....I know of one such building in bangkok where the local owners raised hell. put up sings in all the elevators warning it is illegal and encouraged owners to report any other owners who were still doing it...the juristic was also onboard and very quickly they stopped it....maybe one thing was they said on their signs that also anyone renting short term was subject to arrest and fines (not sure if true) but who wants to stay in  a place fearing possible arrest....i wish more buildings would get aggressive like that as hoping the police will do it is likely not gonna work...

 

and of course farang owners /jerks who think it is their road to riches as they could not care less the impact it has....above and beyond the non stop coming and going of people it also increases the cost of condos for buyers and long term renters....why rent your condo out for 15000 baht a month when you can rent it out for 1000 baht a day....sell your condo to an airbnb renter and it is worth a lot more if return is 4 times as much for a daily rental than as a long term home...over the long run it prices a lot of local and long term farangs out of the market...yet a lot of farangs continue to rent illegally and don't care one bit and others see it as a biz opportunity.....i would love to see it all shut down but won't hold my breath...

[1FinickyOne]

one day I was looking at homes to buy - one that I looked at had the a/c blasting on a hot day and the exterior doors were wide open... people will not care too much about your property. 

 

Many people have problems w/property managers - - collecting fees until there is a problem and not taking care of the place and pocketing rent money if the landlord is not there...

 

Renters can be a problem - short term can be a huge problem.

[Tubulat]

Regardless of whether it's legal or not but I advise against it.

Until 2 years ago I owns 2 condo's to rent out but nothing but misery.

Also realize that other residents are not pleased and will harass your guests.

That's how I experienced it and that's why I sold both apartments.

[Capitalist]

14 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Some anecdotal info, use if interested.

 

I own two condos in Bangkok, both in Thong Lo/Ekkamai area. Close to BTS. Prime Airbnb rentals. Both are two bedrooms. Two different buildings.

We purchased both condos in 2017. Mostly just to keep some money in the Thai economy.

 

Covid obviously messed things up, but during 2017-early 2019 we were averaging $120/night for the apartments. I would say 50% occupancy since they are expensive compared to the $30/night Sukhumvit bug boxes the global debt serf tourists prefer.

 

It wasn't worth the hassle, even though I had a local team managing everything from check in to transfers. Lots of headaches. Broken furniture and appliances. Leaks. Spills. Complaints. I was insulated from all of this except to write the checks for the handymen but still would not recommend.

 

Now we are at $95 a night for both units, but require one month minimum. Both are booked until October 1.  Management girl says Russians and Koreans are doing most of the renting. Seem like decent people, but we shall see how it goes.

 

Thanks for chipping in. Finally a reply from an insider with experience. When you say you’re not at “$95 a night for both units”. Is that $95/night for each of them , or for both of them combined?

 

I too looked almost exclusively at 2-bedroom condos as they are much, much more rare and in demand. 

 

I’ve lived in both Thong Lo and Ekkamai. A great area. I think land prices will continue to go up as economic activity increases in these hot spots over time.

[Capitalist]

12 hours ago, Tubulat said:

Regardless of whether it's legal or not but I advise against it.

Until 2 years ago I owns 2 condo's to rent out but nothing but misery.

Also realize that other residents are not pleased and will harass your guests.

That's how I experienced it and that's why I sold both apartments.

Thanks for chipping in. Since you have actual experience with this, could you kindly share more information? Did you rent them out on Airbnb or elsewhere? And what “misery” did you run into? I assume most of your tenants only stayed for a week or two, and not the legal 30-day minimum? Thanks.

[Tubulat]

34 minutes ago, Capitalist said:

Thanks for chipping in. Since you have actual experience with this, could you kindly share more information? Did you rent them out on Airbnb or elsewhere? And what “misery” did you run into? I assume most of your tenants only stayed for a week or two, and not the legal 30-day minimum? Thanks.

Yes, that's correct I only rent out through AIRBNB, especially one in Chaam, my upstairs neighbor made quite a mess to a number of customers.

Of course there are rude people as customers but I know he did also to normal quite people.

But  even when you try to do your best, like fruit, drinks, some beer, breakfast, many times they have, the customers, something to complain.

When I need the money, okay have to accept, when not, SELL, and that's what I did. Think twice. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Tubulat

[Celsius]

Not going to get into legalities as in Thailand anything is possible with the right agent.

 

However, I would never, ever in a million years rent out my own property to someone else. People are animals and they will treat your "short term" rental very badly. If you want to get into this business, I would go the slumlord route. 4 walls, extremely cheap furniture and cheap rent. These units have a higher return on investment anyway.

 

I do rent out my own property back home, but only because I have no other choice. The government will slap penalties if the property is not occupied due to housing shortage and my insurance would not cover an empty unit. Also, condo fees and taxes are high. In Thailand everything is cheap. Imagine one of your short term tenants starts a fire here or damages the the treadmill in common area? Headache.

[bwanajohn]

I bought my first condo in Thailand in 1989...just a couple years before everyone said the Thai housing market was about to collapse spectacularly.

1997 everything turned to custard briefly.(unless you were sitting on loads of foreign cash)The collapse of the Thai property market has been just around the corner for 30 years or longer.

Some condo complex allow daily rentals thru Airbnb some only monthlly

Some 3 month is the minimum rental period.

Being a landlord takes a certain type of person not to be driven mad by tenants who don't give a damn about your concerns.If you think people are animals who will treat you and your property very badly that's probably what will happen..

[intheheartoftheheart]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:02 AM, Capitalist said:

Thanks for chipping in. Finally a reply from an insider with experience. When you say you’re not at “$95 a night for both units”. Is that $95/night for each of them , or for both of them combined?

 

I too looked almost exclusively at 2-bedroom condos as they are much, much more rare and in demand. 

 

I’ve lived in both Thong Lo and Ekkamai. A great area. I think land prices will continue to go up as economic activity increases in these hot spots over time.

Yes,

$95 per night per unit.

$2850 a month gross, per unit.

$5700 a month total.

Minus management fee of $450 a month total for both units (high in my opinion but I am lazy and like having everything dealt with). 

Minus utilities, taxes, building fees, etc, upkeep.

Since it's monthly rental there's no cleaning service unless they want to pay for one.

I pay for electricity (for now, monitoring it and may change down the road after the current bookings are done). 

So far, I am getting a higher class of people: a visiting surgeon + wife at one of the hospitals this past winter. A small Korean family. A wealthy Russian couple. Etc. 

I'd highly advise a two bedrooms for a variety of reasons. They're usually built for the local upper class, not speculators, so generally higher quality (although it differs per building, I am sure). Absolute worst case you can buy one and leave your stuff in one of the bedrooms and rent out the rest of the apartment as closet space is at a minimum in BKK, even in the nice condos.

I'll do a reconciliation in 6 months, but I think will net $4k a month total. We shall see.

Needless to say both apartments were empty during COVID for a full year.

[LaosLover]

I'm on my second condo rental in Nimman, Chiang Mai. Both were/are majority-rented out as AirBnB although illegally. I have seen no bad behavior from the short term tenants. I'm a model tenant.

 

As someone who started living here on a 3 month, and then a 6 month lease, where do you draw the line about it being bad? A 30 day rental indicates that a person is either a snowbird or here for a reason and prob being a party animal isn't it.

 

Who are the "real" tenants who will harass someone new they see in the elevator? Thai people? Other westerners? What satisfaction comes from this?

 

People with concerns about housing availability should address that politically, where some change can occur (like in Hawaii). Putting it on the heads of short term renters and yelling at them is crazy.

[Capitalist]

6 hours ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Yes,

$95 per night per unit.

$2850 a month gross, per unit.

$5700 a month total.

Minus management fee of $450 a month total for both units (high in my opinion but I am lazy and like having everything dealt with). 

Minus utilities, taxes, building fees, etc, upkeep.

Since it's monthly rental there's no cleaning service unless they want to pay for one.

I pay for electricity (for now, monitoring it and may change down the road after the current bookings are done). 

So far, I am getting a higher class of people: a visiting surgeon + wife at one of the hospitals this past winter. A small Korean family. A wealthy Russian couple. Etc. 

I'd highly advise a two bedrooms for a variety of reasons. They're usually built for the local upper class, not speculators, so generally higher quality (although it differs per building, I am sure). Absolute worst case you can buy one and leave your stuff in one of the bedrooms and rent out the rest of the apartment as closet space is at a minimum in BKK, even in the nice condos.

I'll do a reconciliation in 6 months, but I think will net $4k a month total. We shall see.

Needless to say both apartments were empty during COVID for a full year.

Again very much appreciated. I’ve send you a direct message with another question.

[intheheartoftheheart]

21 hours ago, LaosLover said:

I'm on my second condo rental in Nimman, Chiang Mai. Both were/are majority-rented out as AirBnB although illegally. I have seen no bad behavior from the short term tenants. I'm a model tenant.

 

As someone who started living here on a 3 month, and then a 6 month lease, where do you draw the line about it being bad? A 30 day rental indicates that a person is either a snowbird or here for a reason and prob being a party animal isn't it.

 

Who are the "real" tenants who will harass someone new they see in the elevator? Thai people? Other westerners? What satisfaction comes from this?

 

People with concerns about housing availability should address that politically, where some change can occur (like in Hawaii). Putting it on the heads of short term renters and yelling at them is crazy.

In my experience owning multiple homes and traveling the world non-stop for 7 years, I think there is a real hole in the market for 1-6 month rentals.

 

Probably more realistically 1-3 month rentals since 3 months is the the limit of most tourist visas.

 

I think it would address a lot of issues. You'll get better quality tenants, for the most part.

You'll avoid constant building turnover and hotel feel.

As an owner, you'll cut down on management and cleaning costs and you'll insulate yourself from cancellations bc you'll want to require pre-payment of at least 50%. 

I'm bored with any place on Earth after 90 days...

[LaosLover]

Serviced apartments seems to be that category. They seem a little cheaper than AirBnB since you will tend to deal directly with the property.

 

For me as a new arrival, the first sweet spot was buying a toaster, blender, and Mr Coffee for my hotel room.

 

I'd love to move every 90 days too. My wife likes to dig in for a year at a time, at least.

[intheheartoftheheart]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:08 AM, LaosLover said:

Serviced apartments seems to be that category. They seem a little cheaper than AirBnB since you will tend to deal directly with the property.

 

For me as a new arrival, the first sweet spot was buying a toaster, blender, and Mr Coffee for my hotel room.

 

I'd love to move every 90 days too. My wife likes to dig in for a year at a time, at least.

Yeah, I just rarely find a good serviced apartments, but you're right that really is the model.

 

I want some decent pans to cook with. Toaster or blender. Slightly less crappy furniture than a typical Airbnb. Normal apartment stuff. But don't want to commit to more than 30-90 days.