Non O visa in Vientienne

[teetersb]

Hi all,  It's been a hectic few years with Covid but now that things are back to "normal" I am up for my annual renewal and have found myself with a problem that I could sure use help with. I put my 400K in the bank 2 months ago and went to the local immigration office here and when I turned over all the completed paperwork It seems that my bank withdrew 300 Baht on Jan. 31 for my ATM annual fee, which left me 32 Baht short of 400 k! I noticed it the next day and put money in to cover it, but the immigration officer said I can't do my visa at their office now. Damn! 

   She suggested I go to Vientienne, Monday and do it there, but I still won't have the required 60 days of 400k in the bank until April 2. Is it possible to do it in Vientienne without 60 day season on the money?  She also said that my wife didn't need to go with me, but I'm not sure if that is true. I have been searching on the Thai Visa Forums for a couple hours and have not found any useful info, but maybe my search queries are wrong.

   I have done the Savannakhet Multi-entry Visa a few times but don't really like that option and I don't think Savannakhet offers a single entry Non-O visa.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I only have a little over 1 week to do this. 

[ubonjoe]

You can only apply for a new non-o visa at the embassy in Vientiane.

Have you applied for a 60 day extension to visit your wife or child since your last entry to the country?

You could then apply for one year extension near the end of the 60 days.

[teetersb]

Thank you for the quick reply Ubonjoe. I have lived here for 15 years and my last exit/entry was just before Covid when I did my multi-entry visa @ Savannakhet, which you were very helpful with. I tried the 60 day ext. at the Kap Choeng immigration office but she said that my Visa would be expired, which I knew, and I would have to pay a 20K overstay fee, but I don't think she was correct. I am really confused because I thought I could do a 30 or 60 day extension and then do my Visa, but she did not seem to want to do that or maybe she was not understanding me. Is there a thread-link where I can look for the visa requirements in Vientienne?

Edited February 22, 2023 by teetersb
Added question

[BritTim]

I believe in Vientiane, but certainly in Savannakhet, you can get a Non O visa with minimal money in the bank. Unfortunately, to apply in Vientiane, you need a prior appointment, and they are usually booked up well in advance. Although not quite as convenient, I would suggest applying in Savannakhet. Applying on a Tuesday or Wednesday will be best in terms of minimising the crowd at the Thai consulate.

[DrJack54]

OP, you could exit Thailand and reenter visa exempt (border bounce).

 

Obtain a non O marriage.

All you need is funds in bank on day of application.

With that 90 day stamp allow the 400k to season for 2 months and obtain 12 month extension.

 

In other words start over. 

Not best option but nonetheless is an option. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by DrJack54

[teetersb]

Some additional info that might help. I had a multi-entry Non O visa and I had to do 2, 60 day extensions in early 2021, because of Covid. Then in March, 2021, I got a regular Non O marriage visa in Kap Choeng. I renewed it in March 2022 no problems. Now, because of my "funds" situation I am short of the 60 day seasoning to do my Visa in March. Can I get a 60 day extension on my current Visa to get the time I need for my funds to season? 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, teetersb said:

Can I get a 60 day extension on my current Visa to get the time I need for my funds to season? 

You can obtain one 60 day extension for each entry into Thailand 

[teetersb]

Dr. Jack 54, do the 2 Covid extensions count?

[teetersb]

If I can't get a 60 day ext. can I go to the local Cambodia border crossing, exit and re-enter on a tourist visa? Then in 30 days, can I apply for a new Non O visa?

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, teetersb said:

If I can't get a 60 day ext. can I go to the local Cambodia border crossing, exit and re-enter on a tourist visa? Then in 30 days, can I apply for a new Non O visa?

You would exit and reenter visa exempt.

You can obtain a new non O.

No problem.

No need to obtain tourist visa.

Visa exempt entry fine.

I outlined that earlier in thread

[zzzzz]

the money needs be in a thai bank for at least a day not the 2 months
https://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/page/non-o-visa-2?menu=63bcd84082cc9c34f4141df3

OR enter on a visa exempt or tourist visa and convert that to a non o

[DrJack54]

59 minutes ago, teetersb said:

Dr. Jack 54, do the 2 Covid extensions count?

The covid extensions do not count

[teetersb]

Thank you Dr. Jack 54. You said "No need to obtain tourist visa. Visa exempt entry fine." , which is a "border bounce(?)". I have never done a border bounce and when I looked at the rules here on Thaivisa it looks like I don't meet the requirements for "Visa Exempt" status. I am a permanent resident here and not planning on going anywhere else. At the border crossing How would I ask for a Visa exempt stamp?

[DrJack54]

24 minutes ago, teetersb said:

I am a permanent resident here and not planning on going anywhere else.

By that do you mean that you have Permanent Resident status.

That's confusing. 

Why would you require extensions.

Permanent Resident is different species.

Here is extremely extensive thread regarding that.

 

 

[teetersb]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can only apply for a new non-o visa at the embassy in Vientiane.

Have you applied for a 60 day extension to visit your wife or child since your last entry to the country?

You could then apply for one year extension near the end of the 60 days.

Ubonjoe, I applied for two 6 extensions at the beginning of the Covid lockdown because I could not do my required 90 visa runs for my multi-entry visa from Savannakhet. On the 2nd 60 day extension I asked to change to a fegular single entry Non O marriage Visa and converted in March 2021. I renewed last year with no problems but as I stated in my opening here, I was 32 Baht short of 400K for less than 2 days. Dr. Jack posted the Covid extensions don't count but I don't understand why the officer at immigr. today said I couldn't do 60 days. I think I should try again on Friday, but what can I say to try to convince her I can get a 60 day ext.? She was very nice and apologetic about my situation, so I can only hope she does not deny me a 60 day ext.

 

[teetersb]

Dr. Jack 54, No I don't have Permanent Residence status I just meant I live and stay here permanently and have no plans to leave. I have retired now and have nothing to go back to in my home country, so I will live & die here.

 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, teetersb said:

Dr. Jack 54, No I don't have Permanent Residence status I just meant I live and stay here permanently and have no plans to leave. I have retired now and have nothing to go back to in my home country, so I will live & die here.

 

What country are you from? 

Reason I ask is to ensure that you can obtain visa exempt entry.

Currently 45 day stamp till March 31.

 

Note: Never confuse living in Thailand ongoing with being a "Permanent Resident" .

Very different. 

 

[teetersb]

Thanks Dr. Jack54, I am from the USA and I need to do my Visa after April 3 to have my 60 days seasoning on my money. If it's a 45 day extension that would work to get me to April 3.

[DrJack54]

46 minutes ago, teetersb said:

Thanks Dr. Jack54, I am from the USA and I need to do my Visa after April 3 to have my 60 days seasoning on my money. If it's a 45 day extension that would work to get me to April 3.

Don't think you have followed.

I will repeat what I typed earlier.

 

You can exit anytime.

Reenter up till March 31 to obtain 45 day stamp.

 

On reentry you will be given a 45 day stamp.

You then apply for non O marriage.

 

That will give you a 90 day stamp.

 

In the last 30 days of that permit with the 400k having been in Thai Bank for 2 months you apply for 12 month extension.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

15 hours ago, teetersb said:

Thanks Dr. Jack54, I am from the USA and I need to do my Visa after April 3 to have my 60 days seasoning on my money. If it's a 45 day extension that would work to get me to April 3.

Make sure you understand the difference between extending an existing permission to stay and a new Non O visa application.

 

When applying for a new Non O visa, there is no need for funds seasoning. (When applying at a couple of rogue immigration offices in Thailand, they might claim that seasoning is required. However, this is not an official requirement.)

 

You cannot apply for a fresh Non O visa at Immigration when you are already in Thailand on a Non Immigrant entry, and that is your current status.

 

As you already know, applying for an extension of stay based on marriage requires that you have funds that are seasoned for 60 days.

 

If your immigration office refused you a 60-day extension to visit your Thai spouse, this is almost certainly because you had already used one since your last regular entry with a visa. This makes sense as usually a Covid extension was only offered if you did not qualify for another kind of extension.

 

Either go to Savannakhet Laos for a single entry Non O visa, or use any land crossing to exit Thailand and re-enter with a visa exemption (45 days) applying for a new Non O visa at your local immigration office.

[teetersb]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

If your immigration office refused you a 60-day extension to visit your Thai spouse, this is almost certainly because you had already used one since your last regular entry with a visa. This makes sense as usually a Covid extension was only offered if you did not qualify for another kind of extension.

 

Either go to Savannakhet Laos for a single entry Non O visa, or use any land crossing to exit Thailand and re-enter with a visa exemption (45 days) applying for a new Non O visa at your local immigration office.

Thank you Brit Tim. I understand most of the regulations but I am having trouble with the 60 day ext. part. I had 2 ext. in early 2021 because I had a multi entry Visa and could not do my border runs every 90 days to fulfill it. Both times the immigr. office said they were Covid ext. After the 2nd extension I converted my Visa from multi - entry to single entry at my local immigr. office in Kap Choeng. Last year I renewed my Visa, no problems and this year I was all prepared with money seasoned for 60 days, but my yearly ATM fee dropped my balance to 39,968 Baht! Damn! I corrected the error a day later to make the 40 K. Unfortunately, they said 32 Baht short moved back my 60 day seasoning to April 3. My Visa expires March 15. I asked for an extension but she said I can't! I thought the Covid 60 day ext. didn't count? If I could convince her, or another officer to give me another 60 days I could complete my Visa on 3 April.

  Is there anywhere in Thai law I can find to show them the 2 previous ext didn't count? Any advice here would help. Thank you

 

[brianthainess]

You have been told what you need to do several times. Leave ( boarder bounce) come back and Start AGAIN !

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

If your immigration office refused you a 60-day extension to visit your Thai spouse, this is almost certainly because you had already used one since your last regular entry with a visa. This makes sense as usually a Covid extension was only offered if you did not qualify for another kind of extension.

In the beginning there was an automatic covid extension, not a question of being offered. My permission to stay had run out in early May 2020 and then in Aug 2020 I was refused a 60 day to visit spouse on the basis of having had the auto extension. Like the OP I had obtained a ME Non O shortly before the pandemic.

Fortunately just before the auto actually run out I had achieved the 12 transfers and managed to do the 12 month extension. ME Non O still had about 4 months to run.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, teetersb said:

After the 2nd extension I converted my Visa from multi - entry to single entry at my local immigr. office in Kap Choeng.

I do not know what you actually did, but there is no such thing as converting an extension of a Non Immigrant entry to a visa. You said you entered Thailand using a Non O visa (and I believe you). At that stage, your options are extensions of the original permission to stay from the entry with a visa, or leaving Thailand. You cannot get a "conversion" visa from a Non Immigrant entry to a fresh visa. That mechanism simply does not exist. You cannot even convert from a Non Immigrant entry to a Thailand Elite visa without leaving and re-entering Thailand.

 

Whatever you understood the officials at Kap Choeng to be telling you, it is almost certain that one of the 60-day extensions (most likely the first if normal procedure was followed) was a 60-day extension to stay with your Thai spouse.

[teetersb]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

 

Whatever you understood the officials at Kap Choeng to be telling you, it is almost certain that one of the 60-day extensions (most likely the first if normal procedure was followed) was a 60-day extension to stay with your Thai spouse.

Thank you Brit Tim, that is the clarity I was looking for. There is nothing in my visa that differentiates the two 60 day ext. as being regular or Covid related. So, now that I understand that, I can move on with the other options. The easiest for me would be the "Visa Exempt" in-out at the local border crossing and then start a new Non O marriage Visa in April. Cheers!

[teetersb]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I do not know what you actually did, but there is no such thing as converting an extension of a Non Immigrant entry to a visa. You said you entered Thailand using a Non O visa (and I believe you). At that stage, your options are extensions of the original permission to stay from the entry with a visa, or leaving Thailand. You cannot get a "conversion" visa from a Non Immigrant entry to a fresh visa. That mechanism simply does not exist. You cannot even convert from a Non Immigrant entry to a Thailand Elite visa without leaving and re-entering Thailand.

 

To clarify this situation, I had a Non O ME marriage Visa from Savannakhet and shortly after getting it the borders were closed for Covid, so when my 90 day run time came I couldn't leave. I got a 60 day ext. and hoped the next time I could do my border run to fulfill the ME requirements. As you know that didn't happen, so the Immigration office gave me another 60 day ext. told me to put the 400k in the bank and they would convert my ME Visa to a (New) regular Non O marriage Visa. Under normal circumstances there is no mechanism to do this but it was obviously allowed during the first year of Covid because that is how I got my Visa. Special circumstances, I guess, at least for ME Visas. I did not leave Thailand or even my province to do this. I also did not give under-the-table money. This was all above board and legal. I hope that helps clear things up.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, teetersb said:

To clarify this situation, I had a Non O ME marriage Visa from Savannakhet and shortly after getting it the borders were closed for Covid, so when my 90 day run time came I couldn't leave. I got a 60 day ext. and hoped the next time I could do my border run to fulfill the ME requirements. As you know that didn't happen, so the Immigration office gave me another 60 day ext. told me to put the 400k in the bank and they would convert my ME Visa to a (New) regular Non O marriage Visa. Under normal circumstances there is no mechanism to do this but it was obviously allowed during the first year of Covid because that is how I got my Visa. Special circumstances, I guess, at least for ME Visas. I did not leave Thailand or even my province to do this. I also did not give under-the-table money. This was all above board and legal. I hope that helps clear things up.

In the unlikely event that a new Non O visa had really somehow been given, you would have (i) a visa stamp in your passport; and (ii) a fresh 90-day permission to stay. It is very easy to distinguish a visa stamp and associated new permission to stay from an extension stamp..

 

What I think the official was implying is that, if you put 400,000 baht in the bank, they would subsequently give you a one-year extension of your permission to stay. The 60-day Covid extension they gave you at that time gave time for the funds to be seasoned so you qualified for that regular one-year extension.

[teetersb]

Brit Tim, I did not get a 90 day permission to stay, I got a 1 year Visa extension that is no longer a ME Non O visa, because I  have not had to do any border runs for 2 years. With the ME visa I had to do 90 day border runs for over 1 year and then Covid hit and I couldn't.

   There is no new Visa stamp, but somehow they converted the ME Visa to a regular single entry. I don't know how/what they did and it doesn't matter anymore, because now I need to to a border, go out of the country so my Visa will be cancelled and come back on a Visa Exempt status. I will try to find info here @ Thaivisa on how to go about doing that. They always try to get me to do a Reentry permit, which I know i don't want and then when I come back they will try to give me a 30 day tourist Visa, which I also don't want. At least that is the way it used to happen to me about 5-6 years ago.

   Never tried the Visa Exempt route but hopefully that works easily and I will be able to start over with a new Non O marriage Visa when I return. Thanks again for your help and info, but as for how my Visa went from ME to Single Entry, I am at a loss. Cheers!

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, teetersb said:

Brit Tim, I did not get a 90 day permission to stay, I got a 1 year Visa extension that is no longer a ME Non O visa, because I  have not had to do any border runs for 2 years. With the ME visa I had to do 90 day border runs for over 1 year and then Covid hit and I couldn't.

   There is no new Visa stamp, but somehow they converted the ME Visa to a regular single entry.

I return to what I posted earlier, and this is very important:

On 2/23/2023 at 10:22 AM, BritTim said:

Make sure you understand the difference between extending an existing permission to stay and a new Non O visa application.

Once you have entered Thailand, your visa, whether single entry or multiple entry and whether expired or not is mostly irrelevant as far as your interactions with the local immigration office are concerned. On entry, you received a 90-day permission to stay. After that, you received a series of extensions of your permission to stay, the last of which was a one-year extension to stay with your Thai wife. Your interactions with Kap Choeng immigration at no point involved "converting" or "issuing" any visas.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, teetersb said:

To clarify this situation, I had a Non O ME marriage Visa from Savannakhet and shortly after getting it the borders were closed for Covid, so when my 90 day run time came I couldn't leave. I got a 60 day ext. and hoped the next time I could do my border run to fulfill the ME requirements.

You are mistaken.  When your first 90 days came to an end there was no need to do anything, in fact depending on when your entry date there is a good chance you would not have been allowed inside immigration.

For those that could not leave the country, myself included as I was also on ME Non O, there was a general amnesty on permission to stay. 

As the Sept deadline approached I went to immigration but could have waited as it was extended again until 31st October.

I think it was about July that immigration offices started to open and it is not out of the question that immigration did an extension when there was no need to do so, but to clarify that you would need to understand the difference between the amnesty and an extension.

 

Bangkok, 1 October, 2020 – The Royal Thai Government has extended visa amnesty for foreigners, who are unable to leave Thailand due to the country’s COVID-19 control measures, until 31 October, 2020. 

This makes the fourth extension of the policy, which first took effect from 26 March to 30 April, 2020. The second extension was from 1 May until 31 July, 2020, and the third extension from 1 August to 26 September, 2020.

https://www.tatnews.org/2020/10/thailand-extends-visa-amnesty-for-foreigners-until-31-october-2020/