Foreign teachers no longer required to do an education course

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:23 AM, Enoon said:

You could have done both.

 

I took 3 years off work to earn a degree as a mature student.

 

Received a full Mature Student grant (UK) without having to pay a penny of my own money..........previous tax paying qualified me.

 

It was ******* fantastic!

 

 

 

 

I did what almost everyone I went to school with did and went to work after I left school.

I'm happy I did as there is nothing I wanted to do that required one except teach in Thailand and I went there all the time anyway, so I didn't actually need to be a teacher.

 

Only mistake I made was in becoming a nurse ( in hospital training ) instead of driving a truck in an Australian mine. I'd have made loads more money and been able to retire to Thailand just by sitting on my backside. I'd even have been better off driving a tube train in London than being a nurse there, but I was too old by the time I found out about it to be accepted.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't really care whether people have to have a degree to teach in Thailand anymore, as I'm never going to want to be one there anymore, but I guess I'm biased against teachers with degrees as all the degree qualified teachers I had at school were IMO oafs. They certainly failed to teach me much or to instill a love of learning.

To me school was just a place that I had to be for a few years, not a place that would benefit me.

[markhines]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:36 AM, BananaStrong said:

Sorry, I cannot agree with you. 

 

Teachers should be ROLE MODELS!!!!    Oh, hi student, I'm here to "educate" you but I felt education wasn't important in my life.  You need a degree, but, as your teacher, I don't.  A degree, IMO, is worthless, but I'll make a great teacher!!! I'll probably lie to you and tell you I have a degree, but I'm sure I'm better than everyone else.  Compared to teachers who actually didn't quit their education, I'm better!!!!    I'm a failure and couldn't finish school, but I'm telling you I'm better!!!  Yes, I'm your teacher.  

 

lol

 

Hey, look at Bill Gates!!!  He dropped out of school!!   He got into Harvard, one of the hardest universities in the world to get accepted at, but I'm the same!!!  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.....................................NO< NO< NO> NO!!!  

I think this is an interesting step that can lead to diversity and cultural exchange in the educational environment. Opening up to foreign teachers without the requirement to complete an educational course can attract talented and experienced professionals from all over the world. It's just that such teachers are often very talented and can bring a lot of new things to us. For example, I often pay to write papers, found https://papersowl.com/pay-for-papers for this. It can also help enrich curricula and provide new perspectives for students. However, it is important to ensure a sufficient level of language training and professional skills of teachers in order to guarantee the quality of education.

lol

maybe you are right

[cdemundo]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:02 PM, markhines said:

maybe you are right

Makes me laugh as a friend of mine once told me when he was in a discussion that appeared to be pointless he would say "You might be right".

I have often used this tactic myself.

[Druidian]

I hold a Master's degree in Education. Can I apply for a teaching license right of the bat without meeting any other requirements?

[Callmeishmael]

You can get a license, but there are conditions.   Here is a quote from the Kurusapa (Teachers Council of Thailand):

 

1. Not younger than 20 years of age
2. Have academic qualifications in one of the following:
    (a) Have a degree in education or its equivalent
    (b) Have a degree in another field and a teaching license from another country
    (c) Have a degree in another field and a graduate diploma in teaching profession with 1 year of
         course study
    (d) Have a degree in another field and have passed other professional certification in accordance
         with the professional standards of the Teachers’ Council of Thailand
3. Have continuing experience in teaching of not less than 1 year
4. Have a Thai work permit
5. Have evidence showing that an applicant has been permitted to stay in Thailand
6. Not possess any of the prohibited characteristics pursuant to section 44 of the Teachers and
    Educational Personnel Council Act B.E. 2003
    • Having improper behavior or immorality
    • Being an incompetent or quasi-incompetent person
    • Having been sentenced to imprisonment in any case, in the opinion of the Teachers Council of Thailand, which may bring dishonor upon the profession.

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/home.php?site=englishsite

 

If I am interpreting this correctly, you need to work legally in a Thai school for one calendar year before you can apply for a permanent license.  You will also need a recommendation from your Department Head and maybe your school director.

 

With an MEd you shouldn't have any trouble getting a waiver for that first year.

[Rhys]

It all depends where you work and the Thai coworker you must tolerate..

[Scott]

A post with a link to a commercial site has been removed.  

 

 

[gascooker]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:55 PM, simon43 said:

My own personal 'niggle' are schools who insist that you have QTS/teaching licence from your home country.  I work as a Science/ESL teacher, but I studied electronics/satellite engineering in the UK, all the way from HNC to HND to Bachelor degree to Master degree. I never intended to be a teacher in south-east Asia.  When I eventually started down that route I went and self-funded CPD courses in pedagogy, SEN, phonics etc etc.  I was offered a place on the Nottingham online PGCE course, but since I was self-funding it wasn't realistic to accept the offer.

 

Even if I had completed a PGCE I would then need to remain in the UK and teaching at a school in order to satisfy the QTS requirements.

 

Therefore, I generally teach in Myanmar, where some schools do not require QTS.  But I have been turned down by a few schools who insist that I have QTS! What is better?  A teacher with QTS and no teaching experience in south-east Asia?  Or a teacher with BSc (1st class), MSc, hands-on technician level experience and 19 years of in-class teaching experience in south-east Asia?  Crazy.....

Parent's are paying big money for their children's education, they want to know that the teachers have been appropriately trained. Now, I do understand your frustration, and agree that hands on experience is better. However, by requiring all teachers be licensed and have the paperwork to show it means that the school is able to evidence to parents that all of their teaching staff have had a similar level of training and education.

[gascooker]

On 3/25/2023 at 7:55 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I did what almost everyone I went to school with did and went to work after I left school.

I'm happy I did as there is nothing I wanted to do that required one except teach in Thailand and I went there all the time anyway, so I didn't actually need to be a teacher.

 

Only mistake I made was in becoming a nurse ( in hospital training ) instead of driving a truck in an Australian mine. I'd have made loads more money and been able to retire to Thailand just by sitting on my backside. I'd even have been better off driving a tube train in London than being a nurse there, but I was too old by the time I found out about it to be accepted.

Sounds to me like you're biased against teachers who bothered to put themselves through quite rigorous training and assessment to prove they are capable to become teachers, often at their own expense. Whereas you might have preferred to be on the beach on playing pictionary on the board with a bunch of disinterested students. Sorry dude, your life but please don't use your own standards to judge others.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, gascooker said:

Parent's are paying big money for their children's education, they want to know that the teachers have been appropriately trained. Now, I do understand your frustration, and agree that hands on experience is better. However, by requiring all teachers be licensed and have the paperwork to show it means that the school is able to evidence to parents that all of their teaching staff have had a similar level of training and education.

A large majority of Thai students receive 12 years free education.

 

A licence issued by KSP does not ensure all teachers have had a similar level of training and education. 

 

A teacher from Phillipines or Nigeria, as examples, can obtain a teaching licence from KSP in Thailand. I doubt they would have had the same level of education and training as someone with a 4 year Uni degree from a Western country.

 

Thai teachers also need a licence. Education levels in Thailand is also a moot point. How can many Thai teachers be licenced to teach English when they struggle to hold a conversation in English?

 

 

[gascooker]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:46 AM, youreavinalaff said:

A large majority of Thai students receive 12 years free education.

 

A licence issued by KSP does not ensure all teachers have had a similar level of training and education. 

 

A teacher from Phillipines or Nigeria, as examples, can obtain a teaching licence from KSP in Thailand. I doubt they would have had the same level of education and training as someone with a 4 year Uni degree from a Western country.

 

Thai teachers also need a licence. Education levels in Thailand is also a moot point. How can many Thai teachers be licenced to teach English when they struggle to hold a conversation in English?

 

 

I'm not talking about farangs teaching temple schools or some dodgy teaching agency. I'm talking about proper, accredited schools with teachers who are qualified and have a home country teaching license. Ofc licensing is used to guarantee a minimum level of training and a common knowledge base. It is no different from car licensing etc. 

[FruitPudding]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:58 PM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Great news. Indeed, that Philippine "diploma" many were getting to fulfill the requirement was merely a scam to fatten someone's pockets.

You think it is worse than a Thai diploma?

 

Let's see how the 7 modules by Krusapa goes.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, gascooker said:

I'm not talking about farangs teaching temple schools or some dodgy teaching agency. I'm talking about proper, accredited schools with teachers who are qualified and have a home country teaching license. Ofc licensing is used to guarantee a minimum level of training and a common knowledge base. It is no different from car licensing etc

All government schools are free for 12 years of education. If you think it's limited to temple schools you should withdraw your comments from this thread. 

 

Suan Kularb, as an example. Rated top 5 in Thailand. Any teacher, with any degree from any country can teach there with a waiver from KSP. All top provincial schools, most rated within top 100 in Thailand the same. Direct hire of teachers, no dodgy agency involved.

 

There is no guarantee of certain, equal levels of education or training. 

 

If you are looking for a school in Thailand where every teacher has a home country teaching licence you'll be looking for a very, very long time.

 

Not that it matters. There are many great teachers in Thailand. In my experience, especially when teaching languages, good expat teachers outnumber good Thai teachers by a very large ratio. Yet, all Thai teachers in government schools have a teaching licence. Go figure.

 

 

 

 

[gascooker]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:40 AM, youreavinalaff said:

All government schools are free for 12 years of education. If you think it's limited to temple schools you should withdraw your comments from this thread. 

 

Suan Kularb, as an example. Rated top 5 in Thailand. Any teacher, with any degree from any country can teach there with a waiver from KSP. All top provincial schools, most rated within top 100 in Thailand the same. Direct hire of teachers, no dodgy agency involved.

 

There is no guarantee of certain, equal levels of education or training. 

 

If you are looking for a school in Thailand where every teacher has a home country teaching licence you'll be looking for a very, very long time.

 

Not that it matters. There are many great teachers in Thailand. In my experience, especially when teaching languages, good expat teachers outnumber good Thai teachers by a very large ratio. Yet, all Thai teachers in government schools have a teaching licence. Go figure.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about Thai schools either, free or not. Quite frankly, I wouldn't put my dog through a Thai school, they are absolutely awful. 

 

Yes, there absolutely is a way to guarantee a minimum level of training and certification, every heard of the PGCE system in the UK. Every PGCE provider has to teach core subjects, and every participant has to attend a school placement for a minimum of 24 weeks.

 

Your point about schools in Thailand having teachers without teaching licenses, I can guarantee that any international school worth it's salt would never dream of employing a teacher without a home country license. I am talking about KIS, Bangkok Patana, Ruamrudee etc.

 

Look dude, TEFL teachers have their place, they can provide a good service to Thai schools and the Thai curriculum. But, they are not qualified teachers, and thus they shouldn't be remunerated in the same manner as qualified and licensed teachers, 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, gascooker said:

 

I'm not talking about Thai schools either, free or not. Quite frankly, I wouldn't put my dog through a Thai school, they are absolutely awful. 

 

Yes, there absolutely is a way to guarantee a minimum level of training and certification, every heard of the PGCE system in the UK. Every PGCE provider has to teach core subjects, and every participant has to attend a school placement for a minimum of 24 weeks.

 

Your point about schools in Thailand having teachers without teaching licenses, I can guarantee that any international school worth it's salt would never dream of employing a teacher without a home country license. I am talking about KIS, Bangkok Patana, Ruamrudee etc.

 

Look dude, TEFL teachers have their place, they can provide a good service to Thai schools and the Thai curriculum. But, they are not qualified teachers, and thus they shouldn't be remunerated in the same manner as qualified and licensed teachers, 

Don't call me "Dude". I'm not a dude.

 

You've moved the goalposts on your comments so many times I doubt you know yourself what you are trying to say.

[gascooker]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Don't call me "Dude". I'm not a dude.

 

You've moved the goalposts on your comments so many times I doubt you know yourself what you are trying to say.

How have I moved the goalposts? My original statement and the argument I’m making remains the same. Teacher licensing helps to guarantee a minimum level of education and a common core of knowledge, it’s the same of driving licenses, pilot licenses, or any license for that matter. I’ve evidenced that in my last post. If you don’t like that, then that is your prerogative. But, that’s why licensed teachers are paid more than unlicensed.

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, gascooker said:

How have I moved the goalposts? My original statement and the argument I’m making remains the same. Teacher licensing helps to guarantee a minimum level of education and a common core of knowledge, it’s the same of driving licenses, pilot licenses, or any license for that matter. I’ve evidenced that in my last post. If you don’t like that, then that is your prerogative. But, that’s why licensed teachers are paid more than unlicensed.

You started with "parents pay". I pointed out many don't.

 

You then said "only accredited schools". I pointed out your assumptions were incorrect.

 

You now say " I don't mean Thai schools", on a forum "Teaching in Thailand". 

 

Now you say " licenced teachers are paid more than unlicenced teachers:. Again, as a generalisation, incorrect.

 

 

 

[gascooker]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

You started with "parents pay". I pointed out many don't.

 

You then said "only accredited schools". I pointed out your assumptions were incorrect.

 

You now say " I don't mean Thai schools", on a forum "Teaching in Thailand". 

 

Now you say " licenced teachers are paid more than unlicenced teachers:. Again, as a generalisation, incorrect.

 

 

 

You are talking about Thai schools. I’ve made it clear I’m talking about international schools. All parents pay, bar a tiny minority of scholarship students.

 

Tell me how I’m wrong about accredited schools?

 

Are you seriously going to claim that as a  general rule, licensed teachers are not paid more than unlicensed teachers.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, gascooker said:

You are talking about Thai schools. I’ve made it clear I’m talking about international schools. All parents pay, bar a tiny minority of scholarship students.

 

Tell me how I’m wrong about accredited schools?

 

Are you seriously going to claim that as a  general rule, licensed teachers are not paid more than unlicensed teachers.

 

 

Look back at your posts. It was not clear what you meant. You are still not clear.

 

You talk about accredited schools then you say not Thai schools. There are hundreds of Thai accredited schools.

 

Then you talk about licenced and unlicenced teachers. Generally there is no rule about salaries and, yes, in my 20 years of experience, all teachers in the same schools get the same salary.

 

I believe you should have started your first post as " teachers in accredited international schools.........", but then you would have been off topic as the thread is about tests and licencing from techers' council of Thailand and, thus, about Thai schools governed by OBEC.

 

Here is your first post. You have not indicated type, level or nationality of school:

 

"Parent's are paying big money for their children's education, they want to know that the teachers have been appropriately trained. Now, I do understand your frustration, and agree that hands on experience is better. However, by requiring all teachers be licensed and have the paperwork to show it means that the school is able to evidence to parents that all of their teaching staff have had a similar level of training and education."

[Laughing Gravy]

16 hours ago, gascooker said:

am talking about KIS, Bangkok Patana, Ruamrudee etc.

Actually, I agree with the first two but the latter no. I know/knew of a few 'teachers' with PhD's there who do not have a teachng license from their home country. Having a PhD, as I am sure you know does not make you a teacher.

[safarimike11]

On 2/26/2023 at 3:08 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I see still need the charade of a degree ( whatever it's for ) to teach in LOS.

Long time ago I was going to do a TEFL or TESOL ( forget which it was exactly ) so I could stay in LOS, but the need for a degree stymied that. Back then I don't remember it as having to be an education degree, so is this a return to what it used to be?

 

I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there that would make great teachers, but don't have a degree.

I never went to uni, because I had to earn a living, but I'm sure that compared to some of the teachers  ( with degrees ) that I had in school, I'd do just fine as a teacher.

As far as I remember (15 odd years ago), any degree would get you a teacher's licence; the "education degree" was necessary to teach in an international school.

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, safarimike11 said:

As far as I remember (15 odd years ago), any degree would get you a teacher's licence; the "education degree" was necessary to teach in an international school.

No.

 

Any degree would get you a waiver.

 

An Education degree has always been required for a licence.

 

In fact, international Scholos do not come under KSP licencing rules as they are not governed by OBEC.

[safarimike11]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:21 PM, safarimike11 said:

As far as I remember (15 odd years ago), any degree would get you a teacher's licence; the "education degree" was necessary to teach in an international school.

I stand corrected.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/25/2023 at 4:18 PM, youreavinalaff said:

by requiring all teachers be licensed and have the paperwork to show it means that the school is able to evidence to parents that all of their teaching staff have had a similar level of training and education."

If they believe that I have a bridge for sale. The level of training and education is NOT similar in every institution, even if the bit of paper at the end is the same.

I worked with nurses from many countries, the ones from Australia and the Philippines were excellent, but the ones from some other countries should not have been allowed to work in the UK as they were so bad at their job. However, they all had paper qualifications.

[Jelli]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:42 AM, Druidian said:

I hold a Master's degree in Education. Can I apply for a teaching license right of the bat without meeting any other requirements?

I believe so, but you'll still need to meet other criteria such as being employed by a school. You cannot apply independently.

[Chris Daley]

It's been like this for decades just a degree in any field will do.  Most universities don't even do ''a bachelor in Education''.

[FruitPudding]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:33 PM, youreavinalaff said:

In fact, international Scholos do not come under KSP licencing rules as they are not governed by OBEC.

 

So, they don't need waivers from Krusapa then?

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

So, they don't need waivers from Krusapa then?

Correct, although requirements for real international schools will be tougher than KSP requirements.

[FruitPudding]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Correct, although requirements for real international schools will be tougher than KSP requirements.

 

Interesting. Thanks for the info. 

 

I am not sure which schools exactly you mean, but I know guys who just did the PGCEi and are earning 100-140k at international schools, yet they still don't qualify for the new 2 year P-License and have had to sign up for the 7 modules course.

 

How to tell the difference between a Krusapa school and an OBEC school?

 

Is there a list of OBEC governed schools?