Gun Bills Coming in Michigan After 2nd School Mass Shooting

[onthedarkside]

 

Democrats are expected to bring a sweeping 11-bill gun safety package before the Michigan Legislature this week, emboldened by their sweeping victories in statewide elections in November that gave them legislative control.

 

Responding to two mass school shootings in 15 months, the party's leaders say it is only the beginning of gun reform in the state.

 

“Nothing is off the table,” said Democratic state Sen. Rosemary Bayer, who leads the firearm safety caucus, “but every state has a culture, so I think we’re trying to be conscious of Michigan and how we do things.”

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2023-03-12/gun-reform-coming-in-michigan-after-2nd-school-mass-shooting

 

 

[Scott]

Troll post making unsubstantiated claim has been removed along with a reply.

 

[vandeventer]

One has to ask, where are all these guns coming from? Are they registered guns or unregistered guns? I lived in Michigan for about a year many years ago and found it to be a happy and peaceful state. The only thing I didn't like was it's just too cold for me. It sounds like things are getting way out of hand with the guns there.

Edited March 13, 2023 by vandeventer

[Tug]

Good show them how it’s done!save some lives!

[oslooskar]

I seriously doubt that any proposed gun legislation in the United States is motivated by any genuine concern on the part of the government for the well being of the citizenry. In fact, it's no secret that the more militarized the police have become in the United States the more they have violated the Constitutional rights of private citizens.

[James105]

9 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

I seriously doubt that any proposed gun legislation in the United States is motivated by any genuine concern on the part of the government for the well being of the citizenry. In fact, it's no secret that the more militarized the police have become in the United States the more they have violated the Constitutional rights of private citizens.

Maybe gun sales are down for the quarter.   Every single time an announcement like this is made gun sales go up as scared Americans go out and buy some more guns.   If you want to increase sales of something then the easiest way is to tell people that stocks are running low and they will soon be rationed or, as in this case, new laws will be coming soon to restrict purchases. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the NRA have cottoned on to this and actually lobby for gun control knowing full well it will never get passed just to increase sales.   Or maybe I'm just cynical when it comes to the US and guns.   

[oslooskar]

16 minutes ago, James105 said:

 Or maybe I'm just cynical when it comes to the US and guns.   

The United States has highest private gun ownership rate in the world but its homicide rate is not even in the top 60. In fact, I don't see any evidence that shows as a general rule that those countries with high gun ownership rates have higher homicide rates than those countries with low gun ownership rates. In fact, I did read a study that was done in the United Kingdom by Colin Greenwood, a retired British police officer, about the effects of gun control there. His conclusion was that Britain's strict gun control laws had no effect on the crime rate there one way or the other. However, the study was done in 1970/71. I don't think I am allowed to post links on this website but I am sure you can find that study online.

[Credo]

15 hours ago, oslooskar said:

The United States has highest private gun ownership rate in the world but its homicide rate is not even in the top 60. In fact, I don't see any evidence that shows as a general rule that those countries with high gun ownership rates have higher homicide rates than those countries with low gun ownership rates. In fact, I did read a study that was done in the United Kingdom by Colin Greenwood, a retired British police officer, about the effects of gun control there. His conclusion was that Britain's strict gun control laws had no effect on the crime rate there one way or the other. However, the study was done in 1970/71. I don't think I am allowed to post links on this website but I am sure you can find that study online.

What a bunch of clap-trap and deflection.  Homicides are far from the only manner of death from guns.  Very far from it.

 

[oslooskar]

15 hours ago, Credo said:

What a bunch of clap-trap and deflection.  Homicides are far from the only manner of death from guns.  Very far from it.

 

There is no "clap-trap" or deflection on my part. I've simply presented you with some cold hard facts, which you apparently don't happen to like. So, please be advised that I don't care about your feelings. I do, however, care about facts. So, if you can present an opposing point of view based on facts, I will be happy to respond to it. Now, if I understand you correctly, you would like to see an entire nation of mostly law-abiding citizens have their firearms taken away from them because a tiny minuscule number of individuals use firearms to take their own lives, is that correct?  

[Tug]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:16 PM, oslooskar said:

I seriously doubt that any proposed gun legislation in the United States is motivated by any genuine concern on the part of the government for the well being of the citizenry. In fact, it's no secret that the more militarized the police have become in the United States the more they have violated the Constitutional rights of private citizens.

I find your post to be offensive in the extreme we have little kids getting slaughtered in schools sir we have grannies getting killed whilst shopping shootings in places of worship and you have the Gaul to make a statement like that!one party in my country has been trying for years to rein in this slaughter of innocents the problem lies with the dark money and spineless republicans so terrified of their base they won’t do anything meaningful about it

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, oslooskar said:

There is no "clap-trap" or deflection on my part. I've simply presented you with some cold hard facts, which you apparently don't happen to like. So, please be advised that I don't care about your feelings. I do, however, care about facts. So, if you can present an opposing point of view based on facts, I will be happy to respond to it. Now, if I understand you correctly, you would like to see an entire nation of mostly law-abiding citizens have their firearms taken away from them because a tiny minuscule number of individuals use firearms to take their own lives, is that correct?  

Here's some facts for you. Its all very well comparing world rankings on gun related homicides for every single country in the world but when you compare the US figures with that of its peers there is nothing to be proud about and certainly enough to actually do something about it rather than defend it.

 

 

 

https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier

 

 

[Credo]

9 hours ago, oslooskar said:

There is no "clap-trap" or deflection on my part. I've simply presented you with some cold hard facts, which you apparently don't happen to like. So, please be advised that I don't care about your feelings. I do, however, care about facts. So, if you can present an opposing point of view based on facts, I will be happy to respond to it. Now, if I understand you correctly, you would like to see an entire nation of mostly law-abiding citizens have their firearms taken away from them because a tiny minuscule number of individuals use firearms to take their own lives, is that correct?  

Well, I care about cold hard facts as well.  You, however, post a bunch of clap-trap but no credible link to any of.  So, we really don't know if what you say is true, but here's a little that is true:

 

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2020 than in any other year on record, according to recently published statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That included a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

And here's a little more from the same study:

 

In 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC. That figure includes gun murders and gun suicides, along with three other, less common types of gun-related deaths tracked by the CDC: those that were unintentional, those that involved law enforcement and those whose circumstances could not be determined. The total excludes deaths in which gunshot injuries played a contributing, but not principal, role. (CDC fatality statistics are based on information contained in official death certificates, which identify a single cause of death.)

[Stargeezr]

BKK Brian thanks for your chart, but Americans and the NRA, and the 2nd amendment etc.  plus attitude, will not change in our life time. it is a bit like the pollution in Asia, not going to change in our life time either.

 

There may be a few changes in a few laws, but all in all, do not expect to see any major changes. However in Canada it seems like the current government with the Liberal party is trying to outlaw all but a bolt action, lever action or pump action non automatic gun. It is very hard to

own a pistol in Canada and unless you belong to a gun club and shooting range, I think it is useless to try own any kind of pistol with the present laws in Canada. I have to take a  course and test if I want to purchase a rifle as well. 

 

That is my rant  about gun ownership.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Scott

[LosLobo]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:02 PM, vandeventer said:

One has to ask, where are all these guns coming from? Are they registered guns or unregistered guns? I lived in Michigan for about a year many years ago and found it to be a happy and peaceful state. The only thing I didn't like was it's just too cold for me. It sounds like things are getting way out of hand with the guns there.

Yet, since the 70's, Detroit homicides, of which more than 70% were by guns, have dropped by more than 50%.

 

I am sure registered guns or unregistered guns make little difference to the victims and their families.

 

Crime in Detroit - Wikipedia

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post about the tobacco industry removed

[oslooskar]

8 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Here's some facts for you. Its all very well comparing world rankings on gun related homicides for every single country in the world but when you compare the US figures with that of its peers there is nothing to be proud about and certainly enough to actually do something about it rather than defend it.

The fact remains as a general rule that those countries with high gun ownership rates have lower homicide rates than those countries with low gun ownership rates. In the case of the United Kingdom, there is no evidence that I know of that suggests or proves that the homicide rate dropped after strict gun control laws went into effect there sometime around 1920. https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Greenwood.pdf

 

However, I have never understood why anyone would try to compare the situation in Great Britain and come to the conclusion that what works there would work in the USA. After all, Great Britain is an island off the coast of Europe, and, unlike the United States, it does not have an almost two thousand mile long border with a violent crime ridden Third World nation, nor does it have a Black population of 13% percent that is possessed of a very large and violent criminal class that is responsible for over 50% of its homicides.

[Credo]

7 hours ago, oslooskar said:

The fact remains as a general rule that those countries with high gun ownership rates have lower homicide rates than those countries with low gun ownership rates. In the case of the United Kingdom, there is no evidence that I know of that suggests or proves that the homicide rate dropped after strict gun control laws went into effect there sometime around 1920. https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Greenwood.pdf

 

However, I have never understood why anyone would try to compare the situation in Great Britain and come to the conclusion that what works there would work in the USA. After all, Great Britain is an island off the coast of Europe, and, unlike the United States, it does not have an almost two thousand mile long border with a violent crime ridden Third World nation, nor does it have a Black population of 13% percent that is possessed of a very large and violent criminal class that is responsible for over 50% of its homicides.

You can't understand why anyone would compare the US to Great Britain, yet you want us to accept your unsubstantiated claim comparing the US to the rest of the world?   

 

If we remove the comparison, do you think 45,222 firearm deaths is OK?   Do you think this is OK?
 

Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens (ages 1 to 19) in the United States. Every year, 19,000 children and teens are shot and killed or wounded and approximately 3 million are exposed to gun violence.

 

 https://everytownresearch.org/issue/child-teen-safety/

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 hours ago, oslooskar said:

. After all, Great Britain is an island off the coast of Europe, and, unlike the United States, it does not have an almost two thousand mile long border with a violent crime ridden Third World nation, nor does it have a Black population of 13% percent that is possessed of a very large and violent criminal class that is responsible for over 50% of its homicides.

The U.K does have a similar border situation with Scotland in the North , although the border isn't as big as the USA/Mexico border 

[oslooskar]

20 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K does have a similar border situation with Scotland in the North , although the border isn't as big as the USA/Mexico border 

Yes, but England has Hadrian's Wall to protect its subjects from those Scottish savages. ????

[scottiejohn]

33 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

Yes, but England has Hadrian's Wall to protect its subjects from those Scottish savages. ????

Actually it is the other way round, the wall is there to protect the Scots from the English savages!

[Mac Mickmanus]

28 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Actually it is the other way round, the wall is there to protect the Scots from the English savages!

The wall was designed by the Italians and built by the English to stop the Scottish stealing animals and capturing slaves south of the border  

[scottiejohn]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The wall was designed by the Italians and built by the English to stop the Scottish stealing animals and capturing slaves south of the border  

Actually it was the Roman legions who built the wall, neither the Scottish or English borderers would have wanted it!

It took six years to build most of Hadrian's Wall with the work coming from three Roman legions – the Legio II Augusta, Legio VI Victrix, and Legio XX Valeria Victrix, totalling 15,000 soldiers, plus some members of the Roman fleet.

From Wiki;

[oslooskar]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:00 PM, Tug said:

I find your post to be offensive in the extreme we have little kids getting slaughtered in schools sir we have grannies getting killed whilst shopping shootings in places of worship and you have the Gaul to make a statement like that!one party in my country has been trying for years to rein in this slaughter of innocents the problem lies with the dark money and spineless republicans so terrified of their base they won’t do anything meaningful about it

My apologies, but I no longer feel at liberty to engage anyone on this forum in serious debate on this subject.