Do you support "15 minute cities" in order to save the planet from man-made global warming?

[connda]

4 hours ago, cmsally said:

Governments really have lost the plot. In the UK they have spent the past decade or so "smashing" local businesses, closing bank branches and post offices, moving many businesses to big industrial parks on the outer edge of towns. Then came Covid and the subsequent inflation which "smashed " the pubs, restaurants and cafes as well as the other remaining businesses. Now with pretty much nothing remaining they say we should remain in the neighbourhood. You couldn't make this stuff up!

Excellent point given the current inflationary spike in energy prices that looks as though it will decimate "pubs, restaurants and cafes as well as the other remaining businesses."
What happens when government edict causes the collapse of the businesses within you 15 minute zone, as well as the supply-chains that were supposed to keep you high-and-dry living in a green utopia?  Then you can't find enough food, there is no places to socialize, you can't afford to stay warm in the winter or cool in the summer, and you can't leave.  Then what? 

Are the architects of 15 minutes cities taking this into account?  Do they care?
Yeah - good observation! 

[Ralf001]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, the problem would seem to be your incomplete mastery of arithmetic.

A problem that did not stop me passing Uni with 6.8 GPA nor impeded me to complete my Bachelor of Engineering degree.

[connda]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

False. Here's the topic as Connda wrote it:

 

"Do you support "15 minute cities" in order to save the planet from man-made global warming?"

This is what Connda (me) wrote:

"Will you support laws and regulations that will limit your personal movement to no more than a 15 minute drive from your place of residence in order to save the planet from man-made global warming?"

[Longwood50]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:26 AM, connda said:

Will you support laws and regulations that will limit your personal movement to no more than a 15 minute drive from your place of residence in order to save the planet from man-made global warming? 

n 1968, the best-seller “The Population Bomb,” written by Paul and Anne Ehrlich (but credited solely to Paul) warned of the perils of overpopulation: mass starvation, societal upheaval, environmental deterioration. The book was criticized at the time for painting an overly dark picture of the future. But while not all of the Ehrlich’s dire predictions have come to pass, the world’s population has doubled since then, to over seven billion, straining the planet’s resources and heating up our climate.

Just one of the "chicken little" prophecies I have witnessed during my 7 decades living.  The latest of course was Covid that was going to lay waste to the population of the earth.

The earth has warmed and cooled for millions of years 

 

Glacial and interglacial periods

An ice age is a period of time where global temperatures drop so significantly that glaciers advance and encompass over one third of Earth’s surface both laterally and longitudinally. During an ice age, a glacial is the period of time where glacial advancement occurs.[1] Similarly, an interglacial or interglacial period is the warmer period of time between ice ages where glaciers retreat and sea levels rise.[2] Over the last 450,000 years, glacials have lasted anywhere from 70,000 to 90,000 years whereas interglacials last approximately 10,000 years.[3]

[cmsally]

Some of the intentions don't seem too bad (possibly) but it is a huge (one size fits all) policy. It's also full of slogans. If we look back in history , where have we seen these all encompassing policies (almost edicts) full of slogans? Well many of them were to be found in communist countries, so they should raise some red flags (pun intended).

I began to do more research when I started to hear all these catch phrases, especially "Build Back Better". The 15 min. cities and other names they use are meant to be a corner stone of this policy.

If we look back to the communist policies , for example if we look back to the "Four Pest Campaign" including "Smash the Sparrows", none of them ended well, in fact they were mostly complete disasters.

 

If we are to have any success in improving the environment and our living standards it has to be done from the bottom up (and these policies are the complete opposite). Let's face it we can't do a worse job than those in power at the moment.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to reduce congestion and improve the environment but you have to be doing it for the right reasons and have the local peoples' best interests at heart.

The "one size fits all" policy is a dangerous one to follow. It's like mono-cropping on steroids.

[phetphet]

Well that's me f****d.

My doctor, dentist, local supermarket and gym are all more than 15 minutes drive away.

 

Also King Charles won't be happy. How will he get from Buckingham Palace to all his other residences in 15 minutes.

 

And 15 minutes drive from Asok BTS when its heavy rain will get you to...Asok BTS.

 

 

 

 

 

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

In America lots of drivers are using something called WAZE

It's available everywhere and is subsidiary of Google.

 

Great app.

[cmsally]

6 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Well that's me f****d.

My doctor, dentist, local supermarket and gym are all more than 15 minutes drive away.

 

Also King Charles won't be happy. How will he get from Buckingham Palace to all his other residences in 15 minutes.

 

And 15 minutes drive from Asok BTS when its heavy rain will get you to...Asok BTS.

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically most of my British friends are flying to Thailand to get dental treatment (can't find a dentist in UK); it takes slightly longer than 15 minutes.

 

Charlie will be driving his car on the desolate roads instead of taking the helicopter, he will then tell us how environmentally friendly he has become. He will also be purchasing a lot more land in west Norfolk after having put all the other farmers out of business.

[Red Phoenix]

The question posed in this thread was whether you would be wiling to limit your personal movement in order to 'save the planet from man-made global warming'. 

Stating it like this implies that personal movement has a considerable negative effect on the planet (otherwise why would it need 'saving').

And the statement raises many additional questions, the main one being to which degree global warming is actually 'man-made'. It is well known that the climate effect of even one volcanic eruption is incomparably larger than the human contribution of entire nations. 

Of course it makes sense to avoid polluting the environment, and to ensure that our cities are livable, but not by imposing senseless restrictions that are sold as necessary to combat global warming. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's a 15 minute maximum. Not a uniform 15 minutes. How would that even be possible?

It would not be possible, but it does not matter to the people promoting it. It sounds good, that's enough for many. 

[KhunLA]

So I'm reading it as, the people, who have all the money and things they wanted and have done as they please/travel, are telling the less fortunate, that they should only stay within a 5 kms radius of home, and be happy with that ... to save the planet.

 

So let's think about that 15 minutes.  NO NO NO, it's not driving, it Walking or Cycling, and how far is that ?

 

20 kph on cycle, so a 5 km radius.   

 

Remember when you were in High School, without a car ... that's how far you can go.

 

For us now, that is actually enough for everything we need, as surf (non swimming beach), Makro & 7-11s are within that 5 kms.   Imm is 100kms away, as is a decent hospital.  Though I certainly wouldn't want to carry my shopping from 5 kms away, or have to go every other day for supplies.

 

When we lived in Udon Thani, nothing was within 5 kms, and transport was a necessity.

 

One of the silliest ideas, aside from covid restrictions, that were 'stay in the province', that people are actually already accepting.

 

When they took the lid off the jar, the fleas not longer wanted to escape....

 

.... You can't fix stupid

https://www.be-unbounded.com/blog-list/paradigms-are-you-a-flea-in-a-jar#:~:text=When fleas are placed in,the fleas never jump out.

 

"The 15-minute city is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute walk or bike ride from any point in the city." - Wikipedia

Edited March 23, 2023 by KhunLA

[h90]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooo, no more visits to granny then, or holidays somewhere else. How about if your dentist or doctor is further away?

How about if one can't buy something within a 15 minute drive ( as in people that live far away from a town ) eg farmers?

How would it be controlled- would we all have to wear an ankle bracelet like a criminal?

 

To the question, no, no way, not a hope in hell of agreeing with that.

The concept is: As many people as possible should live in big cities as they need less carbon as 1 family country side houses. Than build infrastructure that has all you need in a 15 min walking distance (not driving)...you know that central planning thing that has a great track record in history. So your doctor wouldn't be the problem if you think for dense downtown city areas. And you get permits to leave like twice per month or so. If you are over you pay a fee (so you don't get shot you only pay)
I always thought that is complete crazy dystopian AJ level nonsense. But to my surprise some people like the idea. To my even greater surprise people who left their country to travel to Thailand like it.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

A problem that did not stop me passing Uni with 6.8 GPA nor impeded me to complete my Bachelor of Engineering degree.

The only objectively confirmable evidence I have is that converting from centimeters to inches was a problem for you. Maybe next time you'll  offer serious responses instead of lame wisecracks.

[h90]

34 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

So I'm reading it as, the people, who have all the money and things they wanted and have done as they please/travel, are telling the less fortunate, that they should only stay within a 5 kms radius of home, and be happy with that ... to save the planet.

 

So let's think about that 15 minutes.  NO NO NO, it's not driving, it Walking or Cycling, and how far is that ?

 

20 kph on cycle, so a 5 km radius.   

 

Remember when you were in High School, without a car ... that's how far you can go.

 

For us now, that is actually enough for everything we need, as surf (non swimming beach), Makro & 7-11s are within that 5 kms.   Imm is 100kms away, as is a decent hospital.  Though I certainly wouldn't want to carry my shopping from 5 kms away, or have to go every other day for supplies.

 

When we lived in Udon Thani, nothing was within 5 kms, and transport was a necessity.

 

One of the silliest ideas, aside from covid restrictions, that were 'stay in the province', that people are actually already accepting.

 

When they took the lid off the jar, the fleas not longer wanted to escape....

 

.... You can't fix stupid

https://www.be-unbounded.com/blog-list/paradigms-are-you-a-flea-in-a-jar#:~:text=When fleas are placed in,the fleas never jump out.

 

"The 15-minute city is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute walk or bike ride from any point in the city." - Wikipedia

And don't forget that the people with such good ideas fly with their private jets to the climate conferences. I don't know how much fuel a private jet needs....but for sure a poor person can go a few times around the planet with their small car when they fly half the planet with a large plane

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It would not be possible, but it does not matter to the people promoting it. It sounds good, that's enough for many. 

I don't see how you can equate a maximum of 15 minutes for any destination, which is the goal of the 15 minute city program, with consistent time  of 15 minutes for any destination no matter how near or far. Given that your faulty understanding of the parameters would actually make trips longer then the average, it would actually make it sound worse than what is clearly means.

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The only objectively confirmable evidence I have is that converting from centimeters to inches was a problem for you. Maybe next time you'll  offer serious responses instead of lame wisecracks.

no problem at all for me.... only imbecile knuckle draggers use the imperial system.

[h90]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

The question posed in this thread was whether you would be wiling to limit your personal movement in order to 'save the planet from man-made global warming'. 

Stating it like this implies that personal movement has a considerable negative effect on the planet (otherwise why would it need 'saving').

And the statement raises many additional questions, the main one being to which degree global warming is actually 'man-made'. It is well known that the climate effect of even one volcanic eruption is incomparably larger than the human contribution of entire nations. 

Of course it makes sense to avoid polluting the environment, and to ensure that our cities are livable, but not by imposing senseless restrictions that are sold as necessary to combat global warming. 

And it would make sense to make trains so cheap and comfortable that we like to use them instead of car/airplane. And solar panels are great. My solar panels produce the electric when my staff needs aircondition....it is perfect. No one is burning oil for fun, no one likes dirty air or dead birds...aeh no my mistake they come from the green environment friendly energy...we all love dead birds and bats..

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

A problem that did not stop me passing Uni with 6.8 GPA nor impeded me to complete my Bachelor of Engineering degree.

Might want keep that to yourself ...

 

... "What is the % of 6.8 CGPA? If you want to calculate the percentage conversion of 6.8, then multiply it by 9.5. Therefore, 6.8X9.5 = 64.6%"

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

The point of my question was obvious. Traffic congestion is a huge problem in Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Areas?. Are you claiming that your alleged experience contradicts this? 

It's a problem for some, but not for others. But yes, the party elites would like to get the hoi-polloi to stay in "their" areas and hoof-it to wherever they need to be such that they (the party elites) do not have to worry about traffic and undesirables in their (the party elites) areas. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Obviously not.  Will you be denting your fender if you drive into a neighboring district in a 15 minute city? Can emergency vehicles, delivery vehicles, and public transport vehicles drive through a fence unscathed?

So it's only (effectively) a wall for the hoi-polloi then, yes? That makes sense. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

It's available everywhere and is subsidiary of Google.

 

Great app.

But not so great for people who live in neighborhoods afflicted by it.

[KhunLA]

I'm guessing the 5 votes for yes, live in Pattaya, and is the only place in TH they've visited, aside from needing to go through Bkk to get to Pattaya.

... nuff said

 

15 minute city would almost be suicidal.

[Yellowtail]

56 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

So I'm reading it as, the people, who have all the money and things they wanted and have done as they please/travel, are telling the less fortunate, that they should only stay within a 5 kms radius of home, and be happy with that ... to save the planet.

 

Exactly. Who owns cars in Singapore? The rich, and the people that serve them. 

[Ralf001]

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Might want keep that to yourself ...

 

... "What is the % of 6.8 CGPA? If you want to calculate the percentage conversion of 6.8, then multiply it by 9.5. Therefore, 6.8X9.5 = 64.6%"

6.8 is semi decent in the country I was schooled.

 

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm guessing the 5 votes for yes, live in Pattaya, and is the only place in TH they've visited, aside from needing to go through Bkk to get to Pattaya.

... nuff said

 

15 minute city would almost be suicidal.

Who drives through BKK to get to Pattaya ?

 

Swampy is on the Pattaya side of BKK outskirts !!

[Yellowtail]

 

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for the correction. But the question posed by Connda remains a dishonest one. The 15 minute city concept does not limit people from driving as far and as long as they want to.

No, it's just more honest than the people pushing it want to admit. The end game it to get the hoi-polloi in concentrated areas where they only walk or take public transportation where they need to go, and don't own cars. 

 

That it will greatly improve the lives of the rich is just a coincidence, I'm sure...

 

[Woof999]

Is this the 15 minutes a bargirl might give you for 1 drink or the 15 minutes it will take my wife to get ready to go out?

 

There is at least an hour's difference.

 

[h90]

42 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm guessing the 5 votes for yes, live in Pattaya, and is the only place in TH they've visited, aside from needing to go through Bkk to get to Pattaya.

... nuff said

 

15 minute city would almost be suicidal.

If I get locked into a 15min city in Pattaya I may not live long but I live happy even if I own nothing.

[h90]

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

No, it's just more honest than the people pushing it want to admit. The end game it to get the hoi-polloi in concentrated areas where they only walk or take public transportation where they need to go, and don't own cars. 

 

That it will greatly improve the lives of the rich is just a coincidence, I'm sure...

 

They open brag about it....what to do with these useless eaters...maybe videogames and narcotics keep them pacified.....etc....only need to listen to the World Economic Forum....Their public speeches.

[Yellowtail]

49 minutes ago, h90 said:

They open brag about it....what to do with these useless eaters...maybe videogames and narcotics keep them pacified.....etc....only need to listen to the World Economic Forum....Their public speeches.

Indeed, over 10% polled WANT the government to impose laws and regulations that will limit your personal movement to no more than a 15-minute drive from your place of residence in order to save the planet from man-made global warming. 

 

But the key word in the above is your, THEY never suffer the consequences of their own ideology/policies.